Gilbert Buettner
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Yes, that is the problem. There is a lot of time when you are not instructing but you are there at the airport, not getting paid.
Who is Doing These Jobs?
- Thread starter Bonchie
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Yes, that is the problem. There is a lot of time when you are not instructing but you are there at the airport, not getting paid.
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3G
Welcome to Part 121. Same concept, just different pay rates.
I’ve always wondered if an airline could make it if they just salaried all the crew positions instead of hourly based on door close or push back.
Bonchie
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Bonchie
75 hours even if you don’t fly at $99 an hour starting is still a good living, though.
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Kayoh@190
They could, but pilots hate change and it'll never happen.
That said, you get used to thinking of it as "trip x pays y" instead of the hourly anyway. One of the nice things is being able to drop trips for more time off - I'm down to 4 days next month to be around for various family functions, but of course will only be paid half of what I normally do. Not sure if that'd work if we were salaried.
hindsight2020
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hindsight2020
They got min guarantee. They are "salaried" in that regard.
ETA: Oops, @Bonchie beat me to it.
100%, that's the ticket right there!
What I do know from almost 2 decades of airline kvetching from the usual suspects at work, is that if you want what you posted above to hold true as a generality, don't work for SWA. That's one airline where you have the flexibility to work more, never less. It's a one-way check valve. As such, (dirty little secret alert), people bang out sick for their days off.all.the.time. I'd know, I've dealt with working their schedule drops for 16 years. Of course, you ask them in mixed company, and they'll deny it 'til the cows come home.
Of course, opponents would then suggest making a PTO bank, but unions would fight that to the death. As a casual observer it doesn't appear to me airlines really care who gets abused, as as long as the flight gets covered. Sure, they'd love for the cheapest crew to do it (avoid premium), but they're otherwise agnostic to the unions abusing their junior.
how much is sick accrual at your outfit?
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Todd82
Line Up and Wait
I think I know who that job posting is for. And if I do, they pay that hourly rate for 8 hour (minimum) days while deployed, regardless of wx / Hobbs time, and OT (time and a half) once they go over 40hr/week. Also rental cars, per diem, expenses, etc.
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3G
I’m familiar with how it works and pay by trip really is piece work in every other industry. Without bagging on airline unions in general, they brokered a basic salary structure with any trips beyond mins essentially being bonus piece work. Good work if you can you can find it.
Indeed has that type of work/pay structure.
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Kayoh@190
Yeah, I'm a lazy bastard. Heh! But to your point, my ability to drop (or even move my schedule around) is very equipment, seat, and base dependent. The time of year matters too, and I generally take my foot off the gas over the winter months because I know my ability to drop or trade into shorter trips will be limited over the summer. The flip side to dating a girl whose Match ended up dragging me to NYC for what has now been 6 years and 7 months (not that I'm counting) is that I get to enjoy being a non-commuter in what's a very junior commuter base, and all the schedule flexibility that such a scenario affords me. So I'm aware of that, and I try not to fall into the trap of projecting my situation onto others. Not that I'm always successful at it.
But anyway, the reason I even mentioned it was to attempt to show how my brain processes the work, which by compartmentalizing my pay into a trip by trip situation makes it feel different than either a salary gig or hanging out unpaid at the flight school as a CFI. @TCABM called it piece work, which is a term I'm unfamiliar with, but likely fits. It's all just mental gymnastics anyway - a way to prepare myself a few days in advance for the garbage 3.0+ TAFB ratio trip so I don't have to think about the fact that I'm making $2.30/hr while drinking coffee in a Miami crew room.
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Kayoh@190
Missed this earlier. 60 hours per year, which has been a sore point with the rank and file for some time. Like your buddies, we have a culture of using sick time as essentially PTO and the company looks the other way. I generally bang in once every three months just for the hell of it (anal glaucoma: can't see my azz coming into work today!), although with a 2.5 year old petri dish at home I'm actually having to use much of the time as it was intended.
Johnny Costello
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I can see if I was retired and bored and want to fly taking that kind of job
Bonchie
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Bonchie
That’s probably the answer. Guys who aged out, have no big tie downs, and want to stay in the air. Those are the guys who might have the 500 ME time.
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SoonerAviator
Awfully bored to make what is essentially $58K/yr earnings while flying on someone else's dime? I mean, I guess it depends on what your other options are in retirement . . .