Who here has accidentally stalled a plane?

[Mafoo]

So over in the pilot training forum, there are a few threads on stalls.

The one I think is somewhat meaningless, is power on stalls. I learn to climb based on airspeed, so I have no idea when I would ever get in a situation where a power on stall is even possible.

Power off stall I get, if for no other reason then to burn into my brain to constantly pay attention to my airspeed when landing.

It made we wonder, how often do people stall? I would suspect almost never, but thought it was worth asking.

 

[danhagan]

So over in the pilot training forum, there are a few threads on stalls.

The one I think is somewhat meaningless, is power on stalls. I learn to climb based on airspeed, so I have no idea when I would ever get in a situation where a power on stall is even possible.

Power off stall I get, if for no other reason then to burn into my brain to constantly pay attention to my airspeed when landing.

It made we wonder, how often do people stall? I would suspect almost never, but thought it was worth asking.

Accidentally ... never. I stall about 2-3 feet over the runway nearly every landing though

 

[Sac Arrow]

I can't honestly say I've ever accidentally stalled an airplane. I've had the stall horn come on before on an over aggressive rotation on takeoff, but that's about as close to it as I've come.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I can't honestly say I've ever accidentally stalled an airplane. I've had the stall horn come on before on an over aggressive rotation on takeoff, but that's about as close to it as I've come.

I've heard that before (stall horn during takeoff, in other planes where I was a pax) depending on OAT and WB but I don't THINK I've heard that in my plane since I tend to "let the plane take off" rather than yank / rotate right at rotation speed.

 

[Flying_Nun]

What happens if your pitot-static system becomes clogged while your climbing? I was just discussing this with an "old timer" a couple of days ago.

 

[Fearless Tower]

The one I think is somewhat meaningless, is power on stalls. I learn to climb based on airspeed, so I have no idea when I would ever get in a situation where a power on stall is even possible.

Power on stall is meaningless, eh?

You really should get your resume ready to send to Colgan or Air France.

 

[Jim Logajan]

It made we wonder, how often do people stall? I would suspect almost never, but thought it was worth asking.

Seems likely that almost all those who could answer in the affirmative are too dead to respond.

 

[alaskaflyer]

In perfect conditions probably hardly ever happens. But consider that you train your brain for situations that are not ideal.

I've stalled accidentally exactly once. When I had an engine out on approach in a single engine airplane and became distracted during restart procedures and unconsciously traded airspeed for altitude By the time one part of my brain had recognized the mistake another part had recovered the stall by sending correct signals to my arms without any real conscious thought.

By the way the restart was unsuccessful and I landed off runway.

As far as the power on stall goes, in normal conditions yes you would think it should never happen. Until you are maneuvering at gross in high DA conditions and you begin receiving imminent stall clues at very gentle climb attitudes! Near cumulogranite, having correct and automatic recovery skills becomes important.

And then there is shear, up drafts and down drafts and a pilot's tendency to ignore the airspeed indicator in favor of approaching terra firma in the windscreen necessitating having to fly the airplane nearer to the edge than one would otherwise prefer.

I can't tell where you live/fly Mafoo because I'm using Tapatalk but for those who fly in mountains the training correlates to a lot of real world possibilities.

Edit: New Hampshire huh? Well, even without real mountain flying , consider the Colgan Air crash. The temptation to pull up when you are going down is a mighty one and muscle memory, constantly trained, might save you.

 

[SkyHog]

I would guess power on stall during go around might be a high risk to the pilot not paying much attention.

 

[Sac Arrow]

In perfect conditions probably hardly ever happens. But consider that you train your brain for situations that are not ideal.

I've stalled accidentally exactly once. When I had an engine out on approach in a single engine airplane and became distracted during restart procedures and unconsciously traded airspeed for altitude By the time one part of my brain had recognized the mistake another part had recovered the stall by sending correct signals to my arms without any real conscious thought.

By the way the restart was unsuccessful and I landed off runway.

As far as the power on stall goes, in normal conditions yes you would think it should never happen. Until you are maneuvering at gross in high DA conditions and you begin receiving imminent stall clues at very gentle climb attitudes! Near cumulogranite, having correct and automatic recovery skills becomes important.

When runway starts disappearing and mountains start rising, the temptation is there for sure.

 

[docmirror]

Oh yeah, I've done it. I had a banner on and I was fiddling with a radio, or transponder and the stack was mounted down below the panel between my legs. I leaned back up and guess I got the stick back too, or the trim got bumped or something. Next thing I know I'm wobbling around a bit, and I go full throttle and push hard on the stick. Lucky, I saved the banner from going in the drink. It was not pleasant.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

The one I think is somewhat meaningless, is power on stalls. I learn to climb based on airspeed, so I have no idea when I would ever get in a situation where a power on stall is even possible.

Of course you don't. That is because you are still learning. Try to relax a little and just to humor the FAA, (You know, those guys that write the rules?), assume there are some on the planet who know just a little more about flying than you do at this point.

 

[MAKG1]

Stall WARNING? Yes. Max-gross soft field takeoff in a Warrior (with a slightly low rotation speed -- oops). Just a "blip," but it certainly was there.

Stall? No. I could imagine it in turbulent conditions while climbing at high density altitude (so it's something I watch closely).

Not all stalls are fatal. It's only when close to the ground, but not close enough.

 

[wsuffa]

One "would have but for the vortex generators".

 

[zaitcev]

There was a guy who stalled a Mooney on departure out of Watsonville in summer of 2011 because he tried to climb over a cloud. He crashed into a hospital and died rather than go illegal for 10 seconds while airplane clips the marine layer. That's just the crash that immediately comes to mind.

I came quite close to stalling on departure while cutting night circuits for currency and possibly getting a bit disoriented in the darkness. Pulled just a shade too hard while turning crosswind and saw airspeed decaying quickly. I levelled it right as the stall warning just came on, and made a malformed pattern. Contributing factor was terrain and not being used to right-hand patterns.

 

[Old Geek]

Stall - no. Pre-stall buffet - twice. Got my attention fast.

 

[JordanDelaney]

Thankfully I have not accidentally stalled an airplane.


......Well, maybe once during slow flight when I was training for my checkride.

 

[Mafoo]

In perfect conditions probably hardly ever happens. But consider that you train your brain for situations that are not ideal.

I've stalled accidentally exactly once. When I had an engine out on approach in a single engine airplane and became distracted during restart procedures and unconsciously traded airspeed for altitude By the time one part of my brain had recognized the mistake another part had recovered the stall by sending correct signals to my arms without any real conscious thought.

By the way the restart was unsuccessful and I landed off runway.

As far as the power on stall goes, in normal conditions yes you would think it should never happen. Until you are maneuvering at gross in high DA conditions and you begin receiving imminent stall clues at very gentle climb attitudes! Near cumulogranite, having correct and automatic recovery skills becomes important.

And then there is shear, up drafts and down drafts and a pilot's tendency to ignore the airspeed indicator in favor of approaching terra firma in the windscreen necessitating having to fly the airplane nearer to the edge than one would otherwise prefer.

I can't tell where you live/fly Mafoo because I'm using Tapatalk but for those who fly in mountains the training correlates to a lot of real world possibilities.

Thanks for all this. What I wanted to know.

And I train in New Hampshire. We have mountains, but they are things I fly around, or over. I have yet, and don't plan anytime soon, to land at an airport on the side of one.

 

[MAKG1]

There was a guy who stalled a Mooney on departure out of Watsonville in summer of 2011 because he tried to climb over a cloud. He crashed into a hospital and died rather than go illegal for 10 seconds while airplane clips the marine layer. That's just the crash that immediately comes to mind.

Even worse, he insisted in taking off directly into the very light wind. The cross-runway would have kept him completely clear and legal, and well away from the stall.

I don't know why everyone at WVI insists on using 20 all the time. It's the designated calm wind runway, but safety always trumps noise abatement. For the fairly common case where the south end of the field is fogged and the rest isn't, 20 is the wrong choice. Even if the wind is blowing 20 knots straight down 20.

I don't know if that crash was officially labeled a stall/spin, but it sure as heck looked like it.

FWIW, the building at Watsonville Community Hospital he destroyed was vacant. The only people he killed were himself and his family.

That accident occurred right around my first solo. It did not make the wife comfy.

 

[Mafoo]

Of course you don't. That is because you are still learning. Try to relax a little and just to humor the FAA, (You know, those guys that write the rules?), assume there are some on the planet who know just a little more about flying than you do at this point.

Umm...

That was the reason for the question. If I thought I knew everything, this post wouldn't exist. (and I wouldn't even be here)

 

[Rose2012]

I haven't personally, but I had a commercial student accidentally stall doing a chandelle once. Yes, I knew it was going to happen, and yes, I let him do it.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Not a fully developed stall. However, on a hot day at over 5000 ft. elevation taking off toward rising terrain with a full load, noticed the symptoms of an imminent stall and put the nose down, headed toward lowering terrain until we started gaining altitude over the terrain.

And that is why you train for stalls of both kinds: so you recognize the signs and know how to correct before you become a burning hole in the ground.

 

[tonycondon]

many times

 

[Mafoo]

Not a fully developed stall. However, on a hot day at over 5000 ft. elevation taking off toward rising terrain with a full load, noticed the symptoms of an imminent stall and put the nose down, headed toward lowering terrain until we started gaining altitude over the terrain.

And that is why you train for stalls of both kinds: so you recognize the signs and know how to correct before you become a burning hole in the ground.

Thanks for this. Can you tell me what airport you were flying out of? I would like to see what terrain would put someone in that situation (so I can compare it to the kind of airports I am used to)

 

[Velocity173]

While the percentages of an accident during a coordinated stall are small, recognizing and recovering will prevent the greater threat of spins. I always believed the FAA should mandate spin training. Way too many spin accidents out there. Some preventable, others at low altitude not. I've done spins in sailplanes and I believe it made me a far better Pilot because of it. Also stall recovery is just good knowledge in knowing the limits of your aircraft. We train steep turns but how often would I need to do them on a typical pleasure flight?

 

[MAKG1]

Any high density altitude airport with nearby rising terrain can do that. They are common.

For instance, Big Bear (L35) when taking off to the east, or South Lake Tahoe (KTVL) when taking off to the south.

 

[alaskaflyer]

Thanks for this. Can you tell me what airport you were flying out of? I would like to see what terrain would put someone in that situation (so I can compare it to the kind of airports I am used to)

Also remember that you can stall at any airspeed and any attitude. It is all about the AOA. Again, in most phases of flight that is not likely. Until you are maneuvering to avoid a mid air collision near the runway, dive and then while still descending at full power and pulling back on the yoke you are wondering why you aren't recovering from the dive! (We could invent scenarios all day )

 

[Mafoo]

Also remember that you can stall at any airspeed and any attitude.

Do you mean indicated airspeed, or airspeed? I thought if my plane stalled at say, 60 knots, and the indicated airspeed was at 65 knots, this meant the wind over my wings was traveling at 65 knots, so I will not stall.

If I am diving and the AOA is such that I am in a stall, the airspeed indicator would be less then 65 mph. (with me obviously traveling through the air faster then that)

Is that true?

 

[Ted]

Personally I have not, but I've had times when I found myself frighteningly close without realizing it.

It happens.

 

[Mafoo]

Any high density altitude airport with nearby rising terrain can do that. They are common.

For instance, Big Bear (L35) when taking off to the east, or South Lake Tahoe (KTVL) when taking off to the south.

Wow, yea, KTVL is not something I have yet seen.

Ok everything, thanks for educating me!

 

[Henning]

So over in the pilot training forum, there are a few threads on stalls.

The one I think is somewhat meaningless, is power on stalls. I learn to climb based on airspeed, so I have no idea when I would ever get in a situation where a power on stall is even possible.

Power off stall I get, if for no other reason then to burn into my brain to constantly pay attention to my airspeed when landing.

It made we wonder, how often do people stall? I would suspect almost never, but thought it was worth asking.

Consider the other names for the stalls, Departure Stall (Power on) and Approach Stall (power off). Both happen to fatality several times a year as it is.

 

[Silvaire]

Stall training is like spin training. It's not because you are in imminent danger of it happening in normal operations, it's just so you can experience what it entails when it does happen. For the most part the training, as it is conducted, isn't all that useful because you are consciously and purposely putting yourself into a stall or spin and it takes specific actions to get it to happen.

The case of an accidental stall/spin (because they are intimately related) comes in instances of extreme distraction or stress. The classic "moose stall" happens to new pilots doing turns around their house while concentrating on the family in the back yard rather than their attitude, coordination and speed. A forced landing over hostile terrain can result in a stall/spin as you unconsciously try to stretch the glide just a bit more to clear that obstacle. The downwind turn stall happens because the pilot is distracted by the illusion it creates on his ground track because that is what he's looking at rather than his flight attitude.

 

[Mafoo]

Not a fully developed stall. However, on a hot day at over 5000 ft. elevation taking off toward rising terrain with a full load, noticed the symptoms of an imminent stall and put the nose down, headed toward lowering terrain until we started gaining altitude over the terrain.

And that is why you train for stalls of both kinds: so you recognize the signs and know how to correct before you become a burning hole in the ground.

Just out of curiosity on this, and I ask this to learn, not to criticize:

Wouldn't the best senario be to know best rate of climb for a fully loaded aircraft at whatever altitude you are, and then just fly that speed. If you look like you are not going to clear what's in front of you, you need to fly somewhere else, because nothing you do is going to fix that?

Again, not criticizing. I could see myself getting used to a pitch, and then one day do the same thing I have done 300 times before, and all the sudden it doesn't feel right, I am just asking what one should do, in a perfect world.

 

[dukeblue219]

Do you mean indicated airspeed, or airspeed? I thought if my plane stalled at say, 60 knots, and the indicated airspeed was at 65 knots, this meant the wind over my wings was traveling at 65 knots, so I will not stall.

You're on final and all of a sudden somebody with no radio cuts in front of you (perhaps from above, so you have no warning). You turn hard away from the collision, and the plane is in a 60 degree bank. Sensing your proximity to the ground, you hold the yoke back to maintain altitude. What's your stall speed now?

Edit -- Didn't mean for that to sound condescending if it did. Just illustrating that stalls are not a factor of speed but AoA. A sharp maneuver can instantly bring that AoA past the stall point while still at cruise speed, and a heavily banked plane will need substantial AoA to maintain altitude, perhaps also stalling you.

 

[Jeanie]

Do you mean indicated airspeed, or airspeed? I thought if my plane stalled at say, 60 knots, and the indicated airspeed was at 65 knots, this meant the wind over my wings was traveling at 65 knots, so I will not stall.

If I am diving and the AOA is such that I am in a stall, the airspeed indicator would be less then 65 mph. (with me obviously traveling through the air faster then that)

Is that true?

~~~ no, it isn't low airspeed it's AoA. It is possible to stall my decathlon on the backside of a loop at 140 kts if I pull too hard.
In the dive that's suggested your airspeed would be high and when you haul back on the stick the momentum of the aircraft mass conts in the original direction while the AoA increases and you stall the wings. Remember, it's the difference between the chord and the relative wind. In the dive or a loop if you increase the elevator back pressure in an even measured way then the planes direction and relative wind "catch up" and you don't stall.
It's easier if I have a model to show you...

 

[Fearless Tower]

Do you mean indicated airspeed, or airspeed? I thought if my plane stalled at say, 60 knots, and the indicated airspeed was at 65 knots, this meant the wind over my wings was traveling at 65 knots, so I will not stall.

If I am diving and the AOA is such that I am in a stall, the airspeed indicator would be less then 65 mph. (with me obviously traveling through the air faster then that)

Is that true?

No, that is not true. You stall when you exceed the angle of attack. You could be doing 100 kts and if you yank the yoke/stick back abruptly, you are probably going to exceed the critical angle of attack and stall.

 

[wanttaja]

So over in the pilot training forum, there are a few threads on stalls.

The one I think is somewhat meaningless, is power on stalls. I learn to climb based on airspeed, so I have no idea when I would ever get in a situation where a power on stall is even possible.

Power off stall I get, if for no other reason then to burn into my brain to constantly pay attention to my airspeed when landing.

It made we wonder, how often do people stall? I would suspect almost never, but thought it was worth asking.

I stalled, accidentally, at cruise power, when carrying my first passenger after getting my private. Spun, too.

Ron Wanttaja

 

[Mafoo]

No, that is not true. You stall when you exceed the angle of attack. You could be doing 100 kts and if you yank the yoke/stick back abruptly, you are probably going to exceed the critical angle of attack and stall.

Still not sure I 100% get it. While I get that what your saying is true... if I am doing 100 mph and pull up, I will stall, but won't my indicated airspeed also drop below 60? (if 60 is where I stall)

 

[redtail]

Still not sure I 100% get it. While I get that what your saying is true... if I am doing 100 mph and pull up, I will stall, but won't my indicated airspeed also drop below 60? (if 60 is where I stall)

Not necessarily! Your indicated airspeed has nothing to do with it, in an accelerated stall!

 

[Mafoo]

Not necessarily! Your indicated airspeed has nothing to do with it.

I get that it's 100% based on angle of attack, but I thought indicated airspeed was a measurement that gave you feedback as to what your angle of attack was.


So if I am falling 200 mph, and I have the aircraft at such an angle I am indicating 80mph (so I have a high AOA), I am going to be in a stall?

Didn't know that.