Who gets to name fixes?

Many countries preserve fix names by using combo alpha/numeric fixes for IAPs. Such as:

Pages from MGGT AUG 2021.pdf.jpg
 
there is gabar down my sju, ive heard many times on the radio," direct to the gay bar"
 
"cleared direct MORON," vs "cleared direct, MORON." Never has the placement of a comma been so important :) I know MORON was referenced in an earlier post, but I couldn't resist. We've had fun with that fix in our simulated ATC environment a good number of times. Hearing the history of various fixes around Socal and SBA was very interesting having stared at them for so long over the years.
 
aterpster said:
Many countries preserve fix names by using combo alpha/numeric fixes for IAPs. Such as:

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That works. But there are 26 letters and only 10 digits, so the all letter thing makes for a lot more possibilities. Of course the 'pronounceability' thing is an issue. How prounceable some of the ones we all ready have is a stretch.
 
aterpster said:
And, in the Bishop area:

WALLE is the RNP AR 30 FAF.

JAAKE is the RNAV 12 FAF. Jake was my maternal grandfather who built a cabin in the area before I was born. I spent some great times at that cabin.

RBRTS is on V230 and one of the IAFs for the RNAV 12.

I received these Bishop area fixes because of my work with an FAA/Industry committee that finalized RNP AR. We each got to pick a terrain-challenged airport for the launch of RNP AR. I picked Bishop. The FAA TERPs rep on the committee and I were (and are) good friends.

I got WALLY at KEMT in the 1970s because I made a deal with the TERPs guru in the Western Pacific Regional Office (IAPs were designed in the regions in those days). I made a bet with him that I could get a VOR/DME IAP to fit from the west, yet avoid the LAX Class B. I won the bet so he found WALLY reserved in the Eastern Region. He made a swap.
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This a case of it's both whatcha know and who ya know
 
luvflyin said:
That works. But there are 26 letters and only 10 digits, so the all letter thing makes for a lot more possibilities. Of course the 'pronounceability' thing is an issue. How prounceable some of the ones we all ready have is a stretch.
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They don't use it for fixes that may have to be reported to ATC.
 
aterpster said:
They don't use it for fixes that may have to be reported to ATC.
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The IAF's are the 2 alpha 3 digit form. Like GT599. Seems like that would be reportable to ATC. All the fixes on that chart AA###'s. I don't get it.
 
luvflyin said:
The IAF's are the 2 alpha 3 digit form. Like GT599. Seems like that would be reportable to ATC. All the fixes on that chart AA###'s. I don't get it.
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I don't know the answer to the question, but with the number of challenging pronunciations now anyway, I don't know that it would be a big deal to have ATC say "cleared direct Golf Tango 5 9 9".
 
RussR said:
I don't know the answer to the question, but with the number of challenging pronunciations now anyway, I don't know that it would be a big deal to have ATC say "cleared direct Golf Tango 5 9 9".
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Yeah. Spelling out our 5 letterers(i'll be danged, letterer is a word) seems to be the norm rather than the exception.
 
Since we have computers that are now more capable than those in the 1970's and we can handle more than 8 bits of data, why not do away with the short hand and just spell the names out vs playing License Plate Abbreviation Lingo?

What about: Ginger, Gilligan, Professor, Mary Ann, Mr. Howell, Mrs Howell, Skipper; Mike, Carol, Marsha, Jan, Cindy, Greg, Peter, Bobby; Kirk, Spock, Scotty, Uhura, McCoy, Sulu, Chekov.

We could also get those race horse owners to start naming fixes. (Then again, maybe not - had to cull out a few that were NSFW).
  • Maythehorsebewithu
  • Whykickamoocow
  • Red Hot Filly Pepper
  • Sotally Tober
  • Spineless Jellyfish
  • Where’s the Beef
  • Slumpbuster
  • Curse Reversed
  • Eighteencharacters
  • Nosupeforyou
  • Whatamichoppedliver

This all also made me think of this for some reason. Yes, they were idiots.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ing-producer-tweeted-moments-later-oh-s-.html

AND.... for the fixes on V highways, why not do what the interstate system does? V112-### For North/South bound highways, start at the southern most point with "001" and sequential up from there. For East/West, start at the most eastern part with "001" and sequential up as you go west.
 
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Moe, Curly, Larry (Yes, bored here; easily distracted. I dutifully came to the office this morning, bright and early - and no one is here. Between Covid, the flu, and even one honest person who said "I just decided to extend my vacation", there are 6 cars in the parking lot for a building that used to accommodate 300. The building creaks and slight noises are annoying now).
 
luvflyin said:
The IAF's are the 2 alpha 3 digit form. Like GT599. Seems like that would be reportable to ATC. All the fixes on that chart AA###'s. I don't get it.
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Those IAFs are at the end of STARs.
 

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luvflyin said:
The three fixes leading up to BUXOM are MYCRO, BBREW and PUBBB. On the other side is HHOPZ and WIDMR for Widmer Bros Brewing. Portland is the Brew Pub Capitol of the World.
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Neighboring Hillsboro airport has NNIKE and INTLL on the RNAV 31L as you fly by Nike and Intel facilities.
 
SeaTac’s HAWKZ 7 Arrival has KRIEG, PTERA, WRUSL, KNGDM, ESLEY and BLYTZ.

Presumably for Dave Krieg, Jack Patera, Russell Wilson(?), King Dome, Kenny Easley and Blitz (Seahawks mascot).

See that Russell? If they named an intersection after you, you got to stay until retirement!
 
Meanwhile, nearby Boeing Field has the CBAIN 1 Departure, with KURRT, CBAIN and GNEXX.
 
And Pullman’s new ILS and RNAV approaches have WAZOO, RYPEN, MAAYZ, UTLEE, PLUUR. For WSU/WAZZU, Mark Rypien, Ruben Mayes, Mike Utley, Peyton Pelluer and/or possibly his ancestors Scott and John Pelluer who all played for the Cougars.

Obviously there’s terpster’s covering the northwest with a sense of humor/history/names. My guess is that similar examples exist across the country. Which is cool.
 
Tarheelpilot said:
I don’t know but the hero that used SHART will always be on the list of people I want to meet.
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So I said to myself, huh, whats that about? Ask him I said. Is that about somebody? But I decided to just google it. Ya learn something new everyday. Now what I wanna know is, is that a common North Carolinian colloquialism?
 
luvflyin said:
So I said to myself, huh, whats that about? Ask him I said. Is that about somebody? But I decided to just google it. Ya learn something new everyday. Now what I wanna know is, is that a common North Carolinian colloquialism?
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I have meet people from places far away from NC that were aware of the term. Don’t think we can claim “shart” as our invention.
 
Jim K said:
Some instrument fix names are obvious, like NEWMY directly over the town of Newman, or LODGE over....Lodge.

Others certainly appear to be the product of Terps Elves having fun.

The one that made me wonder is our RNAV 14L here at CMI. RRRED, GRANJ, ORANJ, & BLLUE all make perfect sense to fans and alumni of the university of Illinois, but I wouldn't necessarily expect a random terpster to come up with them.

Is there local input on fix names, or did we just get lucky enough to have an alumnus name them? Perhaps they do some local research to come up with the names?
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Back in '01 or so...we had a Chief Pilot who went west in his sleep one night...was the local DPE, did phase checks (when the school was 141), and was just one of those "quiet birdmen" who had more hours in his log, certs all the way from ASEL to multi rotorcraft...a real pilot's pilot. Unflappable. You always wanted to fly with him...you learned something new every time. He didn't climb into the plane as much as put it on like a well-fitting suit jacket. We all felt his loss keenly.

The FAF into the field was named "KOINE". I called up the FAA charting folks...and asked if or how we could go about having the fix renamed in his honor. They said "send a letter on airport stationery, requesting the change from KOINE to what we settled on "DFRTZ" (his name was Doug Fritz...but signed logs "DFritz"). Next revision came out, and the FAF intersection was changed.

The date it became active...took his widow and son on probably the shortest filed IFR trip I've ever flown...from the field to Solberg, procedure turn home, descend to intermediate altitude, and ATC called the intersection (I had called them before hand to let them know what we were doing and why) and cleared us for the approach...and we were 'officially' the first flight through it under ATC control. (I also had the chart framed and gave it to the widow)

It's not as hard as you think...;) The FAA was actually very helpful and supportive about it. Think of it...we pay for the service...and sometimes they make it easy to work with them.
 
BryanAV8R said:
Back in '01 or so...we had a Chief Pilot who went west in his sleep one night...was the local DPE, did phase checks (when the school was 141), and was just one of those "quiet birdmen" who had more hours in his log, certs all the way from ASEL to multi rotorcraft...a real pilot's pilot. Unflappable. You always wanted to fly with him...you learned something new every time. He didn't climb into the plane as much as put it on like a well-fitting suit jacket. We all felt his loss keenly.

The FAF into the field was named "KOINE". I called up the FAA charting folks...and asked if or how we could go about having the fix renamed in his honor. They said "send a letter on airport stationery, requesting the change from KOINE to what we settled on "DFRTZ" (his name was Doug Fritz...but signed logs "DFritz"). Next revision came out, and the FAF intersection was changed.

The date it became active...took his widow and son on probably the shortest filed IFR trip I've ever flown...from the field to Solberg, procedure turn home, descend to intermediate altitude, and ATC called the intersection (I had called them before hand to let them know what we were doing and why) and cleared us for the approach...and we were 'officially' the first flight through it under ATC control. (I also had the chart framed and gave it to the widow)

It's not as hard as you think...;) The FAA was actually very helpful and supportive about it. Think of it...we pay for the service...and sometimes they make it easy to work with them.
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That's really cool
 
IFALN ANDYE CAANT GDUPP

file:///C:/Users/bucko/AppData/Local/Temp/KLOU-RNAV%2033-1.PDF
 
luvflyin said:
IFALN ANDYE CAANT GDUPP

file:///C:/Users/bucko/AppData/Local/Temp/KLOU-RNAV%2033-1.PDF
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See post #8

In other news, I sent these in to the IFR magazine 'over the air" segment. I was excited to see them come out in the Feb issue.

They printed the first 7/8 of my email and then cut off those four :frown2:
 
Jim K said:
See post #8

In other news, I sent these in to the IFR magazine 'over the air" segment. I was excited to see them come out in the Feb issue.

They printed the first 7/8 of my email and then cut off those four :frown2:
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Yup, there it is, I had forgot that one up in your post #8.
 
SAMMY is the IAF for the ILS 36 into Hurlburt, coincidentally Sammy’s is the name of a “Gentleman’s” club in Fort Walton Beach.
 
Regional operations group for the particular region. When an approach is revised or designed they will draw up the plate along with temporary names (placeholders) until the design has been presented to the plans and procedures specialists at the effected ATC facilities. Once ATC has given its input they will finalize the design or revision. At that point they go to the database and assign available legal names to replace the placeholders.

I asked about this process once and had it explained to me as described. I asked if there were any particular rule that directed their choice. They said only that the new name must be available and meets one of two format rules.

I asked it’d the name could be my name. And he said yes, if it was available. So we looked and it was so now I have a IAF with the first five letters of my name. Immortalized forever. Pilots for all time will speak my name with reverence as they report the fix.

Ahhhhhh.

Tex
 
To answer the OP’s question, the TERPS person who built the approach gets to name it. But as was said, the good ones are already taken so you have to choose from a list
 
We've got an ops guy at LGA that finally retired after 52 years with the airline. Great guy - everyone loved him. There's a plan to have a fix named for him once LGA gets some new arrivals (whenever that happens to be). Hope it happens, he deserves it. :)
 
kayoh190 said:
We've got an ops guy at LGA that finally retired after 52 years with the airline. Great guy - everyone loved him. There's a plan to have a fix named for him once LGA gets some new arrivals (whenever that happens to be). Hope it happens, he deserves it. :)
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Could be a new Approach or DP also. There are some under development and pending. I suppose you could get an existing fix renamed, but that would probably be harder.

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/fli...ab=productionPlan&nasrId=LGA#searchResultsTop
 
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