Who DOESN'T practice stalls post PPL?

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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Interesting conversation at a random FBO today.

I had gone out to practice and landed, rested, and a group of 4 pilots were there and I introduced myself and mentioned I had been practicing some stuff.

One guy goes "Stalls?"

I said "yes. why"

Then 3 of the 4 said they never practice them because they "Are never going to stall the airplane"

I said I am not planning to either but I think they are fun and we should practice just to make sure our reaction time is good and we don't lock up if it does happen. They said "nope"

Anyone else who only does their stalls on their BFR? That is what these guys were telling me they do.
 
Considering I've heard some on the boards state that there are PPLs who won't do any stalls without a safety pilot, I can understand the attitude.

OTOH, I try to work in stalls anytime I'm doing practice flying. My BFR also required true (accelerated) departure and approach stalls, which I understand is not the case everywhere. Of course, that CFI also believes in pre-PPL spin training, so that tells you how old school we are.
 
I'd try but my plane doesn't stall....:no:
 
I do stalls regularly as part of testing new homebuilts. Take my own plane and "practice" a stall ? It's probably been 15 years or more. Can't recall doing one in a bfr in that time either.
 
Some planes, like the one I fly (Aerostar), are not something you necessarily go up and stall for practice. Nor are most twins or any bigger airplanes. You take them to onset and then recover.

I take mine to buffet sometimes just to remind me of how that feels, but not past that or until it breaks hard. I wouldn't say it's dangerous necessarily with the right amount of altitude and experience, but I'm not comfortable doing that. Nor have I been trained to do that - I was trained to recover at first sign of stall in that type. And if my type training pilot with over 17500hrs in Aerostars alone doesn't go past buffet, there's a good reason for it. That thin wing snaps on you real quick if you're ever so slightly uncoordinated. Most twins are not even spin tested during certification, so it's not something you want to explore by yourself.

Singles are generally more benign, but you can still get in trouble. Uncoordinated stall in a turn on a Bonanza will get you on your back in a hurry.
 
OK, I'll admit to not practicing stalls much. Most of my flying is done with the wife, and she forbids me doing anything radical. Once in a while, on my rare solo flights, I might do a couple of stalls. I prefer to do my stall practicing during my BFRs, or maybe once a year I'll go up with my CFI to do some radical things.
My fear is that the stall will go bad and turn into a spin. My aircraft is not rated for spins. I did some spin recovery in a 152, but would not say I'm proficient in spin recovery. I have a 'chute, but wouldn't put myself in the position of having to "pull the handle" just to do some practice.
I do have an AOA in the panel and, through testing during the BFR, I know it barks at the right time.
I'm not too worried about stalling in every-day-flight. The CTSW takes A LOT to stall. It almost won't stall at all at full power... just hanging on the prop. Power-off stalls take a pretty radical nose-up, and then stall recovery is benign and quick. I feel the only place I need to watch for is the wacky unplanned event, where I might "forget to fly the plane". I try my best to prepare for, and think through, those events... and hope I meet the challenge.
 
How can you fly an airplane and not know where and what it stalls like, or test the stalls under different weight conditions, fuel loads, temps, etc. How to you know there hasn't been a change in the airspeed indicator, leaking tubing, faulty gages, etc? The first thing I do when flying a new plane for the first time is go up and stall it. IMHO if you haven't stalled your airplane in the last 6 months you shouldn't be flying! :yes:

Don't be one of those guys!!!! :no:

Please!
 
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For me, I'll do anything that's not prohibited in the flight manual. My practice time is every 50 hours: before changing the oil, I go out solo to warm it up. Basically a full CP syllabus regime for fun and proficiency. It works out well since I'm always solo doing oil changes.
 
I practice not to stall. I do slow flight at minimum airspeeds. This mostly happens at KFRG on final following a Cessna 152 or 172.:rofl:
 
I practice both stalls and slow flight regularly. Heck every time I get checked out in a new airplane I have had to do stalls (even the B-25). I can't imagine not practicing them post PPL.
 
I try to do one every time I land ;) Other than that, no I don't practice them much at all. Similar to CT4ME, I was much more comfortable doing stalls in my 152 than I am in my Sierra which isn't rated for spins.
 
I don't practice stalls per se, rather riding the edge of a stall. Practicing for short field using slow flight isn't enough. I want to practice just getting it to break and then real quickly catching it, but still holding just above the stall, then keep repeating as I descend. Training yourself to be razor sharp on the recovery with a very minimal loss of altitude is more relevant to me than letting it fully break over and then use a lot of down elevator to recover the wing like in initial training.

Also, some aircraft like the SR22 or C400 are so benign you can just hold the stick full aft power off, keep the wings level with aileron (wing design), and you just gently do a falling leaf, stupid easy. I don't know if there is much benefit practicing in those since you don't have to do anything except pick an XM station.

Departure stalls in my aircraft are a joke. I have to first slow to slow flight speed, less airspeed than I would rotate with. Then hammer the throttle, pull as hard as I can, full trim, and sometimes I'll get a descent departure stall. It requires so much effort it's silly. Not something I can ever see anyone doing unintentionally.
 
warthog1984 said:
Canard.
Click to expand...

Every plane stalls. I fly a Piaggio and know what you're saying with the canard thing, but trust me..it can be stalled. Zoom it to a 75 degree nose up and see what happens.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Interesting conversation at a random FBO today.

I had gone out to practice and landed, rested, and a group of 4 pilots were there and I introduced myself and mentioned I had been practicing some stuff.

One guy goes "Stalls?"

I said "yes. why"

Then 3 of the 4 said they never practice them because they "Are never going to stall the airplane"

I said I am not planning to either but I think they are fun and we should practice just to make sure our reaction time is good and we don't lock up if it does happen. They said "nope"

Anyone else who only does their stalls on their BFR? That is what these guys were telling me they do.
Click to expand...

Pilots who say this sort of thing are clearly afraid of stalls and that's too bad. At altitude there is nothing wrong or slightly dangerous with doing them. Even in a multi engine there's no danger...just the recovery changes from adding power to reducing power if directional control is lost. But with altitude what's the problem? Nose over, gain speed and fly out.
 
CT4ME said:
OK, I'll admit to not practicing stalls much. Most of my flying is done with the wife, and she forbids me doing anything radical. Once in a while, on my rare solo flights, I might do a couple of stalls. I prefer to do my stall practicing during my BFRs, or maybe once a year I'll go up with my CFI to do some radical things.
My fear is that the stall will go bad and turn into a spin. My aircraft is not rated for spins. I did some spin recovery in a 152, but would not say I'm proficient in spin recovery. I have a 'chute, but wouldn't put myself in the position of having to "pull the handle" just to do some practice.
I do have an AOA in the panel and, through testing during the BFR, I know it barks at the right time.
I'm not too worried about stalling in every-day-flight. The CTSW takes A LOT to stall. It almost won't stall at all at full power... just hanging on the prop. Power-off stalls take a pretty radical nose-up, and then stall recovery is benign and quick. I feel the only place I need to watch for is the wacky unplanned event, where I might "forget to fly the plane". I try my best to prepare for, and think through, those events... and hope I meet the challenge.
Click to expand...
Just because your plane isn't rated for spin doesn't mean the end of the world.
The manufacturer doesn't want you to practice spin for many reasons including higher liability and the cost of certification . But if it happens use your training and recover.
 
Slow flight & power off stalls are something I do on occasion. Power-on is a bit harder with the VGs (I can get to a 30+ -degree deck angle pretty easily at high power without stalling), so it's usually done at something less than full power.
 
I'll do stalls, slow flight, steep turns, etc. when learning a new airplane.

I don't go out of my way to do them in my personal airplane though. I use it for travel, not flight training. Do people go out and drive their motorhomes just to practice driving one? I'd guess that they stay parked until preparing for a trip. My airplane does the same.
 
Geico266 said:
How can you fly an airplane and not know where and what it stalls like, or test the stalls under different weight conditions, fuel loads, temps, etc. How to you know there hasn't been a change in the airspeed indicator, leaking tubing, faulty gages, etc? The first thing I do when flying a new plane for the first time is go up and stall it. IMHO if you haven't stalled your airplane in the last 6 months you shouldn't be flying! :yes:

Don't be one of those guys!!!! :no:

Please!
Click to expand...

Hope you never run into a plane like a Lancair IV-P.
 
Here's a more interesting question-

Who here has ever accidentally gotten into a full stall and then saved the day with a practiced and rehearsed recovery? Who here has ever even heard of a story like this?
 
Dav8or said:
Here's a more interesting question-

Who here has ever accidentally gotten into a full stall and then saved the day with a practiced and rehearsed recovery? Who here has ever even heard of a story like this?
Click to expand...

That is a great question.
I don't know anyone that has accidentally stalled a plane.

I read a lot about base to final stall/spin but not sure if people are practicing that at altitude.
 
I have practiced base to final stall/spin entry at altitude, a real eye opener. As a result I don't limit my bank in the pattern.

I have never accidentally stalled an airplane.
 
CharlieTango said:
I have practiced base to final stall/spin entry at altitude, a real eye opener. As a result I don't limit my bank in the pattern.

I have never accidentally stalled an airplane.
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More details please.
What did you learn and why did it support not limiting bank angle.

Thanks.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
More details please.
What did you learn and why did it support not limiting bank angle.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I could be wrong, but I think what he meant was a lot of base-to-final stall-spin accidents are caused by pilots not wanting too much bank, and in the process apply bottom rudder in an attempt to tighten the turn on an overshoot of final. Don't fear the bank (within reason, of course).
 
As others have said, except for aircraft checkouts and BFRs, i don't usually practice stalls, though I do practice slow flight. But my reasoning is that I don't consider the traditional straight ahead power-off and power-on stalls to be very realistic, because I don't think they are realistic due to the unusually steep angle of attack.

Unfortunately, those are the only stalls that I have done. :confused:

I do plan on getting some upset training so I can explore the edges of the envelope a bit.
 
I did them regularly in the 172 I trained in, but after moving up to the 182 and even after experiencing they are a less aggressive than the 172, I feel more comfortable having a more experienced pilot with me, just in case. So put me in the "cautious" list. I absolutley wont do power-on without some backup.
 
If you were trained in stall- spins, it became ingrained in your thinking as to what might occur down low in the pattern. This is the reason stall- spins were taught carefully. As a result I have always kept my speed up in a pattern , stayed in as close as possible in case the engine quit, kept other pilots aware of my position by radio and never made loooong airliner type finals which is asking for trouble. I don't practice them but do occasionally slow fly at altitude. I think anyone who flys near stall speed , in the pattern unless they are coming over the numbers, is nuts.
 
I don't particularly practice stalls, I use the edge of stall as an accelerated descent tool if I'm hot and high. Passengers are much more comfortable sinking straight ahead with the nose up than slipping or diving at the runway. The key thing you want to take away from your stall practice is not letting the plane do more than sink in a stall. Practice falling leaf stalls where you old the stall and hold the stall, keep the yoke in your gut and balance the plane keeping the wings level with the rudder as you drop nose up straight ahead and get a feel and sense for that angle of descent. That is the steepest angle of descent you can make for with the minimum amount of kinetic energy. Now you have some really useful pertinent information and experience with stalls. They are a useful tool when used appropriately. Spins are as well, one of my early instructors was an OX-5 who learned between the wars in a Jenny before IFR procedures existed or even the gyros to make it possible. Before they did their Checkride, they went up and showed the examiner a 2 turn spin to a heading, and spinning was how you got yourself down through a layer that had you trapped.

You don't really have to fear getting outside of the flight envelope as long as you know how to get back in without breaking the airplane.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
More details please.
What did you learn and why did it support not limiting bank angle.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

I learned how the base to final stall/spin entry works. I was shocked at how suddenly and without warning I was on my back and in a spin. I simulated an overshoot and compensated with extra left rudder ( left turn ) and high sided my stick to limit bank.

The exercise was a great demonstration of how a left skidding turn with crossed controls can lead to an inadvertent spin and one of the fixes are to use more bank and remain coordinated. The other fix would be to not fix the overshoot and remain coordinated.

Near the ground I want to be either coordinated or slipping not skidding.
 
When I learned stall- spins you had to bring the nose out of the spin on a point that you stated before you started it....like " I plan to recover the spin on that red barn". If you were not accurate, he requested another try. You also had to slip to a landing many times. When the Stearman quit years later, the slip saved me as did keeping speed up until I got over the trees, then slipping it to the ground. I landed in a corn field which was dumb luck. Had it been over water or a forest,etc. I probably would have died. Water is not conducive to good fixed gear landings.
 
CharlieTango said:
I learned how the base to final stall/spin entry works. I was shocked at how suddenly and without warning I was on my back and in a spin. I simulated an overshoot and compensated with extra left rudder ( left turn ) and high sided my stick to limit bank.

The exercise was a great demonstration of how a left skidding turn with crossed controls can lead to an inadvertent spin and one of the fixes are to use more bank and remain coordinated. The other fix would be to not fix the overshoot and remain coordinated.

Near the ground I want to be either coordinated or slipping not skidding.
Click to expand...

Skidding is the only way to spin, by holding in the crossed controls you were putting the wing you were trying to lift deeper into the stall (increased AOA at the down aileron, decreased AOA on the up aileron). If you are going to try to use aileron in spin recovery, you would have to bank into the dropped wing. This is completely counter intuitive and can also just flip you in direction if you haven't released the back pressure lol. Playing with spins can be pretty interesting. Personally I think 5-10 hrs of PPL should be aerobatics, at least 3 even for those who get sick; most people can do 15-20 minutes at a time.
 
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