Which portable GPS do I need?

I have a Software defined radio (SDR) with an antenna that connects directly to my tablet on-the-go (OTG) port. Then I installed the Avare ADSB interface and I get ADSB in to my Avare on my tablet. I also have a remote GPS receiver with bluetooth to my $79 Walmart tablet.
 
Good grief Ed! As Ryan said there are very good reasons for Foreflight on iOS being the number one choice and Garmin Pilot on an iOS being the number two choice.

In the nineties as Windows was gaining popularity I was coming off a comfort level in the UNIX and VMS world and saw Windows as an inefficient pig. As the hardware gained speed and power the inefficiency became less of a factor. If I had taken the same sour attitude, it would have been pretty tough sledding in my last years before retirement.

With today’s incredibly capable hardware, inefficient software, as long as it is well behaved and with adequate functionality, is a non issue. The end user only sees results, they don’t see what’s under the hood.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Good grief Ed! As Ryan said there are very good reasons for Foreflight on iOS being the number one choice and Garmin Pilot on an iOS being the number two choice.

In the nineties as Windows was gaining popularity I was coming off a comfort level in the UNIX and VMS world and saw Windows as an inefficient pig. As the hardware gained speed and power the inefficiency became less of a factor. If I had taken the same sour attitude, it would have been pretty tough sledding in my last years before retirement.

With today’s incredibly capable hardware, inefficient software, as long as it is well behaved and with adequate functionality, is a non issue. The end user only sees results, they don’t see what’s under the hood.
Click to expand...

Yes but there were mobile devices and software that were miles ahead of foreflight and maintained themselves ahead of forefight for years. But everybody ignored them because Kool-Aid. There would be a ff announcement about some feature that had been on another platform for 4+ years and everybody oohs and ahs that its this this amazing thing. Its not. They just stole and copied features from other platforms and marketed the **** out of it. FF isn't what it is because of how great it was, it was just they convinced you how great it was and got enough market share that Kool-Aid was getting passed out like crazy. Only in the past couple years did they finally pass the other programs. Didn't help that we had Apple Fanboys fanning the flames either.
 
I am an app developer. I share OP's antipathy towards Apple. In fact, if I saw Tim Cook drowning, in addition to not lending a hand, I would look around for a stout pole I could use to shove him underwater with.

BUT

I fly with an iPad. The only thing it does is Garmin Pilot. I use a GDL50 for ADS-B input, to get weather and traffic data. I hop around between many planes, so this is my portable "kit" and it works great.

There are cheaper options, and the foreflight vs garmin pilot thing is near-religion also, but I have yet to see an android-based solution I would prefer over the garmin/iPad combo.

Your local FBO that you rent planes from likely has a CFI who uses an iPad. Ask him for dual about how to use HIS iPad and see if you like it.

If I had a more serious allergy to the apple hardware, I'd look at the Garmin Aera portables. I don't know enough about their current situation to recommend one, and won't, but ADS-B traffic/weather input is a game changer and highly valuable to me.

$0.02 :)
 
A Chevy is better than a Ford! A Dodge is better than a Chevy. A Ford is better than a Chevy.

Shell is better than Phillips. Phillips is better than Shell.

it’s amazing what people can find to make religion about.
 
schmookeeg said:
If I had a more serious allergy to the apple hardware, I'd look at the Garmin Aera portables. I don't know enough about their current situation to recommend one, and won't, but ADS-B traffic/weather input is a game changer and highly valuable to me.
Click to expand...
Those, unfortunately, are why I do still pay for Garmin Pilot on Android (it lags behind iOS in features, but both FF and GP have wandered so far beyond what anyone needs in their insane marketing featuritis that it makes no practical difference). FltPlan Go, which I use as a backup, does support some weather and traffic sources, but not the one that I have. As soon as it does, I stop paying taxes to Garmin Pilot.
 
MBDiagMan said:
A Chevy is better than a Ford! A Dodge is better than a Chevy. A Ford is better than a Chevy.

Shell is better than Phillips. Phillips is better than Shell.

it’s amazing what people can find to make religion about.
Click to expand...
A free Chevy is better than a $$$$ Ford, and a free Ford is better than a $$$$ Chevy. That's what a lot of us are talking about, by recommending FltPlan Go on an Android tablet, instead of a $$$ iOS device + $$ annual ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot tax, since the OP said he didn't need traffic or weather (though FltPlan Go does support weather from some sources).
 
schmookeeg said:
I share OP's antipathy towards Apple. In fact, if I saw Tim Cook drowning, in addition to not lending a hand, I would look around for a stout pole I could use to shove him underwater with.

BUT

I fly with an iPad. The only thing it does is Garmin Pilot. I use a GDL50 for ADS-B input, to get weather and traffic data.
Click to expand...

This is me exactly. I tried multiple Android tablets with unsatisfactory results before giving in to the Borg.

I will say the Garmin Aera portables have some nice options to hardwire into a VFR plane and provide GPS data to various devices. For instance, if you have a GTR-200 or 225 radio, location from the Aera will enable "nearest" lookup from the frequency database.
 
For the money, it's possible to use a dedicated single-purpose iPad with Garmin Pilot and/or Foreflight. Most iCloud services and other applese can be turned off. PDFs can be read and the iPad can serve as a scratch pad for ATIS and other writing.
 
CA182R said:
For the money, it's possible to use a dedicated single-purpose iPad with Garmin Pilot and/or Foreflight. Most iCloud services and other applese can be turned off. PDFs can be read and the iPad can serve as a scratch pad for ATIS and other writing.
Click to expand...
Quite right, but the dedicated aviation GPSs were tested and debugged in the exact environment they're running in, while the tablet apps can't have been.

Even accepting that, though, given the cost difference I still prefer an Android tablet over an Aera (I have an old Nexus 7 on my yoke with nothing else running on it) — it's not quite as stable as a dedicated aviation GPS, but close enough.

And a tablet failure should never be catastrophic — if you're VFR, you can keep flying with a paper map and looking out the window; if you're IFR, you should be using your panel-mounted GPS as your primary nav source anyway.
 
Exactly right David! You should never put yourself in a position with no backup. I keep charts handy. They might be outdated, but the battery won’t die or puke in some other way.
 
David Megginson said:
A free Chevy is better than a $$$$ Ford, and a free Ford is better than a $$$$ Chevy. That's what a lot of us are talking about, by recommending FltPlan Go on an Android tablet, instead of a $$$ iOS device + $$ annual ForeFlight or Garmin Pilot tax, since the OP said he didn't need traffic or weather (though FltPlan Go does support weather from some sources).
Click to expand...

Yep and free stuff is usually worth about what you pay for it.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Yep and free stuff is usually worth about what you pay for it.
Click to expand...
It depends. I'm kind-of fond of all the free aviation maps and data that the FAA publishes (then Garmin and Foreflight repackage and sell for hundreds of dollars). I often find Open Source software is better than the commercial stuff, too.
 
First, my primary source for IFR charts and plates is my Samsung Tab A running Avare and getting ADS-B from my FreeFlight. That has been a solid setup for at least 5 years. Geo-referenced approach plates are great but I always print out the paper plates (from AirNav) before a trip. Basically I think you have 90+% of what you want already.

I have a panel-mounted Aera 660 and love it too. It gets the flight plan from my Garmin 300XL and gives me traffic and weather - via my Garmin GDL 50. I LOVE my current setup.

So, if your budget permits, get an Aera 660 plus the GDL 50. Both are portable, so can be used in rentals. You’ll have traffic, weather, AHARS, charts, and plates just from that. Keep the SamTab/Avare, because it’s much bigger. Once you have weather and traffic you’ll wonder how you lived without them. I kept my XM weather when I got the SamTab because Avare weather isn’t very good. I dumped XM when I got the 660/50 - the weather is that good on them.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Yep, I’ve read about people leaving it in direct sunlight and getting that result.
Click to expand...
This happens in flight, So do I keep it covered while flying? What's the use in having it then? My Cardinal has a large windshield and lets a lot of sun in I guess.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Yep, I’ve read about people leaving it in direct sunlight and getting that result. I’ve been flying in Texas with an iPad for ten years now and have never had that problem.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the problem with overheating is not as wide spread as believed but I did see it happen to my friend while flying in his Commander 112. It wasn't in direct sunlight but we were flying here in SC and it was a hot day.

Nice thing was I could see where we were and it was only about 70 miles back to the home airport. We followed the interstate and could see the upper and lower lakes so it was pretty easy to navigate our way back.

I iPad finally cooled down and worked again but I came to the conclusion that an unreliable set up like that wasn't for me. I use and highly recommend the iFly GPS. Of course opinions are like arm pits ... everyone has a couple that stink. :D
 
c177tx said:
This happens in flight, So do I keep it covered while flying? What's the use in having it then? My Cardinal has a large windshield and lets a lot of sun in I guess.
Click to expand...

Don’t be silly. When you are in flight there is air moving around the cockpit. When you stop and leave it in direct sunlight is when it will overheat. I’ve never had it overheat in flight even in periods of direct sunlight. Have you ever entered a closed vehicle that has been setting in the sun?
 
Daleandee said:
I'm guessing the problem with overheating is not as wide spread as believed but I did see it happen to my friend while flying in his Commander 112. It wasn't in direct sunlight but we were flying here in SC and it was a hot day.

Nice thing was I could see where we were and it was only about 70 miles back to the home airport. We followed the interstate and could see the upper and lower lakes so it was pretty easy to navigate our way back.

I iPad finally cooled down and worked again but I came to the conclusion that an unreliable set up like that wasn't for me. I use and highly recommend the iFly GPS. Of course opinions are like arm pits ... everyone has a couple that stink. :D
Click to expand...

You mean you were relying on the iPad as your sole source of nav information? Sorry, but that’s not wise. If you don’t have backup in some form or another and you’re flying cross country I will refrain from continuing my assessment. It would not be gentlemanly.

I keep paper charts in reach even if they are out of date. If you want opinions, I believe that flying with an iPad or a portable GPS as primary navigation aid with no back up is.... whoops I said I was going to be gentlemanly.
 
When configuring an EFB, one should make sure it will work with the devices in the aircraft you will fly. Droid EFB and FltPlan Go will work with a wide variety of ADS-B devices with simple configuration. (Including my NGT-9000.)

Not everyone wants to invest in a cellular iPad and another app ecosystem. For those whose other work and volunteer efforts are deep in the Google ecosystem, an Android product makes sense, and even affordable Android wifi tablets have internal GPS. Droid EFB has also been tested on Chromebooks, which is an interesting option.

Redundancy is a must foe EFBs, and a smartphone is a good option for that. So if you own an Android smartphone, then an Android EFB may also make sense. Choices, choices. I've been flying IFR with Android EFBs for quite a while. Before that I downloaded and displayed approach plates on a Kindle e-reader. Those displays were actually kinda nice...but modern tablets are very capable, regardless of OS.
 
Makes so much sense to load plates on an e-ink display like a kindle. Easiest electronic display to read in direct sunlight and glare.
 
Plates that I use often I have printed and laminated for backup. If I am planning a trip I try to print the plates ahead of time as backup. Redundancy is important.
 
I've had various iPads and several Garmin handhelds over the years. There are certainly pros and cons to each. I'm currently using a Garmin Aera 660 that is mounted on the yoke, and I use my iPad for ground based weather, flight planning, charts, and as a backup in the air. I rarely use the ipad in the air except for approach plates. I love the Garmin, it's simple to use, very reliable, and to echo C177TX's post, has never overheated while I have had that happen many times with the ipad. Both Garmin Pilot and Foreflight are excellent apps for the aviator.
 
MBDiagMan said:
You’re getting your paper charts free? What’s your source?
Click to expand...
It depends on if you count internet costs, etc. all the approach plates are available as .pdf files from the FAA here: https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dtpp/

you can print them yourself if you want paper or load them onto most any tablet or phone device and read them. (As I’m of a certain age I don’t like them on my phone but a tablet is fine.).

The enroute charts are available here (https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/ifr/#lowHighAlaska ) though frankly I’m not sure how easy they’d be to use on a tablet. I’ve never tried it. A printer to print them is pricey.

For disclosure, I use ForeFlight because the cost is down in the noise for me and I’m paying for convenience.
 
My iPhone with Garmin Pilot and a GDL adhrs in the plane are better than any portable GPS I’ve seen. Charts and other updates happen automatically. All the GPS functions are there. It compliments my G3X nicely. And... I can make phone calls, send texts, watch videos, and listen to music.
 
I get the idea from some folks here that they feel that the chart information is free to those who distribute it rather in electronic or paper form so they should pass them along to us for free. Sorry! Those companies have costs involved and they won’t be in business long if they can’t make a profit. I very happily pay FF $150 a year to have all the charts and approach plates I care to use. Not only do they supply information, but they take on the responsibility and expense of making it all available on our gadgets having to keep up with changing OpSys versions and other problems that the software vendors take care of for you. Those things are not done without costing them money and headache.

Having spent much of my career working for software companies I know that all these things that are done for their customers are not trivial. Without them we would st8ll be depending solely on paper charts and E6B’s.

There is in every society I suppose, those who feel that they deserve something for nothing. I don’t understand that mindset.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I get the idea from some folks here that they feel that the chart information is free to those who distribute it rather in electronic or paper form so they should pass them along to us for free. Sorry! Those companies have costs involved and they won’t be in business long if they can’t make a profit. I very happily pay FF $150 a year to have all the charts and approach plates I care to use. Not only do they supply information, but they take on the responsibility and expense of making it all available on our gadgets having to keep up with changing OpSys versions and other problems that the software vendors take care of for you. Those things are not done without costing them money and headache.

Having spent much of my career working for software companies I know that all these things that are done for their customers are not trivial. Without them we would st8ll be depending solely on paper charts and E6B’s.

There is in every society I suppose, those who feel that they deserve something for nothing. I don’t understand that mindset.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. I pay ForeFlight (and before them WingX Pro) for a great deal of convenience. What they do is non-trivial and (in my case) well worth the price. I'm still figuring out what I will do for backup now that my paper subscriptions are done. I don't really count the iPhone as a backup because it's the same SW and platform and a bug that kills one in likely to kill the other. (Also, charts on a phone are really too small for me to read anymore. :( )
 
c177tx said:
This happens in flight, So do I keep it covered while flying? What's the use in having it then? My Cardinal has a large windshield and lets a lot of sun in I guess.
Click to expand...
If you do go with a tablet, the angle makes a difference. I find mine (old Nexus 7, cheap screen) is readable most of the time when it's vertical on the yoke in front of me in my PA-28.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I get the idea from some folks here that they feel that the chart information is free to those who distribute it rather in electronic or paper form so they should pass them along to us for free.
Click to expand...
It's a question of value added. FltPlan Go (also, interestingly, now owned by Garmin) passes those charts and databases on for free, with a little value added (flight planning, showing your location on a map or approach plate, etc), and make their revenue from corporate subscriptions for high-end fleet-management services (as well as a few unobtrusive ads). Garmin Pilot and ForeFlight charge a lot for those same charts and databases, with some extra bells and whistles like glide rings, vertical profiles, synthetic vision, etc. Are they adding $200+/year value when the taxpayers in the U.S. and Canada already funded 99% of the work, or are they just enclosing the commons and trying to charge rent on public space, like the old landlords in the Scottish Highlands who drove so many immigrants to North America?

We'll all have our own opinions on that: they've both invested a lot in design and user experience, but there's still nothing automatically virtuous or wonderful about what Garmin and ForeFlight are doing. Personally, I use Garmin Pilot because I have to use it to display weather and traffic from my avionics, so I feel like it's more of a forced-rent/enclosing-the-commons situation than it is a paying-for-extra value situation.
 
Some folks use FltPlan Go and seem to do okay with it. I tried using it for a time just to see if I could tolerate it, but quickly gave up. That's an ironic stance given that just 10-15 years ago we'd have been thrilled to have that level of capability from an EFB, much less "free of charge."

The level of value provided from the higher end apps tends to eventually grab most everyone in the GA spectrum, even those who are quite budget-conscious. But to be completely fair, everyone's different. Maybe these low cost offerings will be a good fit for you and you'll be out there happily aviating for pennies on the dollar. If that's the case, more power to you, and enjoy it!
 
manac said:
Apple sucks, their hardware is short lived
Click to expand...

I don't know, I've been running an Ipad Air 2 for over 5 years and it's still working just fine with all the latest Foreflight and iOS updates. Since it was originally introduced in late 2014, I'd say that's a pretty decent run.
 
I stayed away from the Aera 660 for one reason, the database update cost. While the GPS itself seems to be priced well enough (subjective, of course), one can eclipse the purchase price in just 5 years if the database was updated annually. For that reason alone, I've stuck with the the iPad/FF combo. I do occasionally fly IFR and enjoy FF's Pro Plus plan.
 
Hard to imagine how anyone can consider Apple products to be short lived. I used my first iPad about 8 years and it is still usable. The replacement is doing great. Maybe that’s in reference to the model changes. Having worked my career in the software industry, form a company health standpoint, it is important to be innovating at a rate such that you yourself are developing the technology that obsoletes your own earlier technology. Apple is running a pretty good pace in that category.
 
Data (charts, plates, etc.) that you can download at no charge from the FAA isn't "free", you've already paid for it via your taxes. Companies like Foreflight, Garmin, etc., use that data and add further value to it by converting and enhancing it, for which they [rightfully] expect to be paid. In the case of Avare, that work is done for free by volunteers, who have their own motivations (but you can donate, if you choose).

Whether the enhanced value of the commercial programs compared to the free options is worth the asking price is for each user to decide for himself. For my short trip day VFR flying the added features of Foreflight over Avare aren't worth the price, others will reach different conclusions. In other cases I have willingly paid for software when the difference between it and the free version was worth it to me.
 
Dave Arata said:
I stayed away from the Aera 660 for one reason, the database update cost. While the GPS itself seems to be priced well enough (subjective, of course), one can eclipse the purchase price in just 5 years if the database was updated annually. For that reason alone, I've stuck with the the iPad/FF combo. I do occasionally fly IFR and enjoy FF's Pro Plus plan.
Click to expand...
Foreflight ProPlus is $200/year? aera660 is $150/year.

If you have other Garmin boxes in your plane, you can get a OnePak that covers everything including the aera. If you are a renter, perhaps you can mooch off of an airplane owner's OnePak.
 
asicer said:
Foreflight ProPlus is $200/year? aera660 is $150/year.

If you have other Garmin boxes in your plane, you can get a OnePak that covers everything including the aera. If you are a renter, perhaps you can mooch off of an airplane owner's OnePak.
Click to expand...
No other Garmin stuff in the plane and I use the iPad for a lot more than just flying. Plus, I really like how easy it is to flight plan on FF and file the plan. For me, the iPad and FF is the clear winner.
 
jsstevens said:
Yes indeed. I pay ForeFlight (and before them WingX Pro) for a great deal of convenience. What they do is non-trivial and (in my case) well worth the price. I'm still figuring out what I will do for backup now that my paper subscriptions are done. I don't really count the iPhone as a backup because it's the same SW and platform and a bug that kills one in likely to kill the other. (Also, charts on a phone are really too small for me to read anymore. :( )
Click to expand...

Can’t speak for WingX, but with Foreflight it’s pretty easy to print plates. I’ve never tried to print charts from there since I don’t have access to a plotter. I expect that if charts are available electronically that Staples would print them for a nominal fee. If they indeed stop selling paper charts, I will find out about printing them.
 
Dave Arata said:
No other Garmin stuff in the plane and I use the iPad for a lot more than just flying. Plus, I really like how easy it is to flight plan on FF and file the plan. For me, the iPad and FF is the clear winner.
Click to expand...

Yep, creating and filing takes seconds. That appears to be quite a lot of value to me.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Hard to imagine how anyone can consider Apple products to be short lived. I used my first iPad about 8 years and it is still usable. The replacement is doing great. Maybe that’s in reference to the model changes. Having worked my career in the software industry, form a company health standpoint, it is important to be innovating at a rate such that you yourself are developing the technology that obsoletes your own earlier technology. Apple is running a pretty good pace in that category.
Click to expand...
Yeah, they're both fine. Lots of people have bluetooth and overheating problems with iOS devices, and lots of people have display problems with Android devices (because there are so many more kinds of displays to test/not test on), but in the end, an iOS device or a higher-end Android device should be good until you drop it or sit on it; depending on the app, though, an older device might become unusable with that specific app just because it has too little memory to run newer, more-bloated versions of it.

I'm still using a (2013) Android Nexus 7 tablet to run Garmin Pilot in the cockpit — that was never an expensive device (at one point, you could buy them for $50 in pharmacies) — and it takes a bit longer to start up, but still runs fine once it gets going. I suspect after a couple more releases, GP will outstrip its capabilities with bloat, as all apps tend to, but it should be good for FltPlan Go (which isn't as bloated) for years longer. And on the positive side, it has a built-in GPS, it never overheats, and the bluetooth is rock-solid.
 
MBDiagMan said:
You mean you were relying on the iPad as your sole source of nav information? Sorry, but that’s not wise. If you don’t have backup in some form or another and you’re flying cross country I will refrain from continuing my assessment. It would not be gentlemanly.
Click to expand...

Well ... it wasn't my plane we were in (RIF) but I did have a back up in my pocket in the form of an iPhone.

So be gentlemanly (if possible) and not judgmental about my wisdom. I did know where we were and knew the way home by simply looking out the window.

But back to the point I was making in that the iPad is known to overheat even when it's not in direct sunlight. Not something I would choose to use. YMMV ...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top