Where to find experimentals

2Airtime2

2Airtime2

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I think I'm a yr away, and probably 2, from buying a plane. I like to window shop. I've been all over Barnstormers and Trade A Plane. Right now I'm thinking experimental so I can do my own upgrades and repairs.

What are some other places to look for used planes? Somewhere with lots of experimentals.

Thanks
Mike
 
2Airtime2 said:
I think I'm a yr away, and probably 2, from buying a plane. I like to window shop. I've been all over Barnstormers and Trade A Plane. Right now I'm thinking experimental so I can do my own upgrades and repairs.

What are some other places to look for used planes? Somewhere with lots of experimentals.

Thanks
Mike
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Don't underestimate Ebay, Craigslist and your local FBO bulletin board. Heck, I've taken a stroll around the hangars and have happened upon someone selling their plane simply by word of mouth. Some are selling only because you inquire. Serious value can be found right under your nose. You'd better do your due diligence and know as much as you can about your type though and the type clubs are great for that. Good luck!
 
If you have a certain aircraft in mind ,go to the type web site. Put up a post ,wanted to buy.
 
FORANE said:
What kind of experimental?
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I would like to be able to carry 2 passengers. So 3 people total (500lbs) plus fuel. A fun (responsive), easy to fly plane for a beginner. Shortish grass field performance might be nice.

Does that type of plane exist?

Please list them.

Thanks
 
Agree on the Bearhawk.

If not-so-short field performance will work, then RV-10.

Not many E-AB options with more than 2 seats.
 
The Bearhawk is a good choice. Another option is a Murphy Moose or perhaps even a Compair 6 or 7. The problem with any of these models is there's just not a lot of completed examples out there so the available inventory at any given time is going to be thin.

Personally based on your stated criteria I'd stick to standard certified aircraft and spend some cultivating a relationship with an A&P who will over-the-shoulder you on most of the maintenance. You'd have to get an A&P to do the condition inspection on any E-AB you brought so getting into owner assisted maintenance for a standard certificated airframe will make the maintenance cost pretty close to being a wash.
 
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2Airtime2 said:
What are some other places to look for used planes? Somewhere with lots of experimentals.
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Find pilots in your area on social media, and meet up with them. There are some 2nd hand projects out there. I picked up a Velocity project like that.
 
Another option may be Zenith CH-801. Unlike the Bearhawk it's a tricycle airplane. But again, completed examples are very rare. Expensive, too.
 
2Airtime2 said:
What are some other places to look for used planes? Somewhere with lots of experimentals.
Thanks Mike
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Attend the monthly meeting of your local chapter of the EAA
 
If you're going to buy a pre-built experimental plane, hire an expert to help you find the right one.

Experimentals are NOT like certified planes. With certified aircraft, you can rest assured that they were built to the same, often mediocre-but-adequate standards. Maintenance will vary, but the baseline starting point is assured.

With Homebuilts, you get everything from Michelangelo (perfection) to Picasso (random), and to the untrained eye they look the same. You need to have a guy in your corner who has built eight or ten of them, who can tell at a glance whether it's stock or modified, and whether the parts and workmanship are adequate.

I hired an expert out of Minnesota, Tom Berge, to help us find our RV-8. He is a one-stop shop, from helping you find the right plane through transition training. We have been ecstatic with our plane, and urge anyone wading into the murky waters of used RVs to contact Tom. PM me if you need his contact info, or just Google "RV Transition"
 
I tend to discourage first time buyers from purchasing experimental aircraft. There is NOTHING whatsoever wrong with the vast majority of experimentals. However, purchasing an aircraft involves quite a few issues. Purchasing an experimental involves all those and quite a few more.

The OPs reasoning is disingenuous at best. Most certificated aircraft will meet his mission of carrying multiple passengers. Moreover, one can do quite a bit of maintenance on a certificated aircraft so long as one has a compliant mechanic. And a purchased experimental will still require an inspection by a mechanic at annual.
 
Glad that OP can see beyond the typical scaremongering, such as spread by steingar above. That said, vast majority of EX-AB planes are 2-seaters, and 4-seaters are relatively rare. Ironically, the older the airframe is, the easier it is to find mods for it, because back in the olden days FAA was generous with field approvals and STCs. The things people do to their Navions, most RV fliers would not dare. If I wanted a 4-seater with some back country chops for a reasonable amount of money, I would seriously look at an STC-ed 175. Of course, 300 grand buy you a used King Katmai 182, but something tells me we aren't looking at this kind of budget in this thread.
 
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Piper pacer would be a nice starter aircraft. They show up from time to time in very nice , rebuilt condition. Or a tripacer if you need a training wheel in the front. I would not worry about carrying anyone but your self for at least 200 hours. Getting a ppl is only the beginning. Be sure you can also afford a hangar. Leaving a nice aircraft outside is a fools decision. It's also true that many, many experimentals are out there , in much better shape than a twenty, thirty year old certified. Many exp. builders border on genius and have built stunners. All depends on the builder, his experience, etc. a lot can be gleaned by seeing his shop, checking his reputation, etc. many of these builders build to build as they enjoy this more than flying.
 
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My first plane at 250 hours was/is a Long EZ. Now have 1000+ hours. Love it. Easier and safer in many ways than most certified aircraft. No stall spin worries, little DA worries. Rarely use rudders other than in the pattern. Autopilot for $800 rather than $7-10,000. Glass panel for $3000 versus $30,000 etc. etc. etc....installed all myself. Overhauled the engine myself. What's not to like? See the graphic below...!

If you have an interest in canards PM me and I'll hook you up with a guy that keep good track of most of them. Certainly NOT grass strip type planes. Fast and efficient.
No matter what you fancy you MUST have an experienced builder/flyer of that type do a prebuy inspection. Preferably someone that has built more than one or is an acknowledged expert in that type. Well worth it.
 
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Controller.com --> Experimental/Homebuilt aircraft
 
Best window shopping arena is to attend the EAA Oshkosh Fly-in. You will see every type and configuration available along with hundreds of historic experimental aircraft. Also visit the museum. Best of luck. VR.. Don Stits
 
Snaproll said:
Best window shopping arena is to attend the EAA Oshkosh Fly-in. You will see every type and configuration available along with hundreds of historic experimental aircraft. Also visit the museum. Best of luck. VR.. Don Stits
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True, but...

Unless you're looking for RVs, which have their own corner of the world, be prepared to walk many miles.
 
Bear hawk

IMG_2013.jpg


Zenith 801, can't really go wrong here, minus a little lacking in cruise

venez%20mike.jpg


Moose

land_moose.jpg


Cyclone (Cessna 185 clone), great option!

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Also some warbirds which qualify under experimental which might be worth a look.

24414f_cf24231495154b7eac874bddbc778d7b.jpg



I'd be careful with the compairs, no personal experience, but every person I've never spoken to, or see post online, about them had zero good things to say.
 
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steingar said:
I tend to discourage first time buyers from purchasing experimental aircraft. There is NOTHING whatsoever wrong with the vast majority of experimentals. However, purchasing an aircraft involves quite a few issues. Purchasing an experimental involves all those and quite a few more.

The OPs reasoning is disingenuous at best. Most certificated aircraft will meet his mission of carrying multiple passengers. Moreover, one can do quite a bit of maintenance on a certificated aircraft so long as one has a compliant mechanic. And a purchased experimental will still require an inspection by a mechanic at annual.
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And you've owned how many airplanes? Of that number, how many were Exp-AB? What is your personal experience to support the bull you're slingin? I've owned more than one of each certified and E-AB. Like any airplane, doing your homework and working with knowledgeable "type" smart folks makes the difference. Anyone can do any maintenance or modification they desire on an E-AB. They are extremely limited on Standard AW stuff. The Condition Inspection for E-AB requires someone with only an A&P whereas the certified requires an A&P/IA.
 
I wouldn't have a issue recommending a experimental for a first plane, it's just like anything else and having a good relationship with a nice old school APIA and being able to turn a wrench is nearly a deciding factor before you even start looking.
 
@James331 I'm on the fence about the @steingar opinion.

For me, I started with co-ownership to learn about owning/maintaining airplanes. Then I bought my RV. I'm still a co-owner of the other two so I have seating and mission options galore.

Would it have been different if I had gone straight from renting certificated to owning experimental? Maybe yes, maybe no.

something about mileage varying fits here
 
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Tom-D said:
Once again.. no one is perfect, not even you.

Truly enjoy the blocking function on this forum. Never see this crap unless someone copies it!​
 
steingar said:
I tend to discourage first time buyers from purchasing experimental aircraft. There is NOTHING whatsoever wrong with the vast majority of experimentals. However, purchasing an aircraft involves quite a few issues. Purchasing an experimental involves all those and quite a few more.

The OPs reasoning is disingenuous at best. Most certificated aircraft will meet his mission of carrying multiple passengers. Moreover, one can do quite a bit of maintenance on a certificated aircraft so long as one has a compliant mechanic. And a purchased experimental will still require an inspection by a mechanic at annual.
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Each plane is different. You still have to pay ridiculously obnoxious prices for parts on a certified plane that can take you right out of the market in a hurry. And not all owners are competent tinkerers. If you're not - stay away from experimental. It's a hands on type of aircraft in most cases and we love it!
 
I know only two people who fly experimentals. They are both airline captains. One owns an RV4 ,bright red, ( just a beautiful thing) the other a rans s7 courrier. ( another great flying aircraft well designed.) these two plus otherairline pilots, as a rule, don't know a wrench from a base fiddle and don't care to. They have others bother about that end of it. There are terrible mechanics currently working on certified (as I've had the misfortune to come across ,) as there building and maintaining experimental. personally , thru expensive lessons that almost cost me my life I've learned to be very careful about who touches anything certified that I fly.( Same with doctors. ) With rans, you can call the factory and they will build any of their models for you and arrange delivery. Or you can assist in building it at a designated dealer if you must. .or simply build it yerownsef. Plus the 912 ROTAX is bullet proof if maintained correctly. If you don't have the money to correctly maintain and hangar a nice aircraft your probably better off buying a Honda four door.
 
I have spent over half a century around experimental aircraft, flown many, designed and built a few, and helped many complete their projects. Most experimentals are sound, safe, and a pleasure to both fly and maintain. The key is to determine what you want, how it fits your mission, determining which aircraft meets your personal requirements for room and access, and perform thorough research as to integrity of the airframe. Look to acquiring an aircraft well within your pilot skills, avoid the "tricky" handling aircraft with high stall speeds and poor spin recovery, and look for value in what you plan to accomplish. If unsure, stick to a part 23 aircraft and call it a day.... VR.. Don Stits
 
steingar said:
The OPs reasoning is disingenuous at best. Most certificated aircraft will meet his mission of carrying multiple passengers. Moreover, one can do quite a bit of maintenance on a certificated aircraft so long as one has a compliant mechanic. And a purchased experimental will still require an inspection by a mechanic at annual.
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He said do his own mx work, not pay someone.
 
E-AB wasn't intended to be a sales category. If you want an E-AB? Build one.
 
What about Glasair Sportsman? I've seen a couple that looked really really nice. Not sure how much room there is in the back for passengers.
 
N3368K said:
And you've owned how many airplanes?
N3368K said:
The number of airplanes I've owned is exactly none of your business.

N3368K said:
Of that number, how many were Exp-AB?
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None. There are no experimental aircraft in my price range that fit my mission.

N3368K said:
What is your personal experience to support the bull you're slinging?
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Lets look at what I'm saying. First, I wrote there is nothing with most experimental aircraft. Sorry you disagree with that. I also said there are issues in purchasing an experimental aircraft that are not in play when purchasing a certificated design. You have to address the maintenance history of a certificated aircraft. You have to address that and the construction of an experimental. That’s a lot for a first time airplane buyer, who probably isn’t well-versed in aviation systems. Heck, Jay owned airplanes for decades and still hired an expert to help him acquire his experimental. I did not need one to find my own aircraft. Whether I did as well as he time will tell.

N3368K said:
I've owned more than one of each certified and E-AB. Like any airplane, doing your homework and working with knowledgeable "type" smart folks makes the difference. Anyone can do any maintenance or modification they desire on an E-AB. They are extremely limited on Standard AW stuff. The Condition Inspection for E-AB requires someone with only an A&P whereas the certified requires an A&P/IA.
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So if you don't build the thing you have to imply a mechanic to inspect it annually. Like I said, you can do just about anything on a certificated aircraft if you have a mechanic comfortable with signing off your work. I did the majority of mine on my last airplane, though doubt I'll be able to do so on the current aircraft due to its complexity.
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Stewartb said:
E-AB wasn't intended to be a sales category. If you want an E-AB? Build one.
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Why? Was the intent that aircraft should be buried in the same grave as the original builder? Put the body in it and launch it in flames for a Viking funeral?

E-AB is not a "manufacturing" category, but where is the issue with selling one?
 
Some good sites:

tradeaplane.com
barnstormers.com
controller.com
aso.com

Also local airport terminal and FBOs have listings. I am actually looking into an experimental due to lower cost for a newer airframe. I like the Vans RV series a lot.
 
Reviving a Necro thread.

There is a middle ground to EAB planes. Projects. They are kits, or maybe even plans-built that have been started, but not completed for one reason or another. Many times you can get them for a fraction of what the components cost, and are already partially assembled.

There are at least two advantages of partially assembled. The first is, some of the work has been done for you, and the second, it's easier to inspect the work that has been done.

You don't have to do 51%+ of the assembly to get your E-AB certificate. Just prove that 51%+ was done by amateur builders. Not sure how getting your Repairman's certificate would work in that case. Also, make sure you get the paperwork that shows the ownership back to the original factory invoice. You'll need that to get your plane registered with the FAA, etc.
 
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