Where is the MAP?

[Clip4]

You need dme or a suitable GPS supplement for this approach. I think this is a misprint, the plate for the ils 28 says radar AND dme required. I would not trust ATC to call my MAP on an approach.

I agree, the fixes that will be called by radar are indentified + you need DME for the miss.

 

[Palmpilot]

I agree, the fixes that will be called by radar are indentified + you need DME for the miss.

According to the AIM section that Mark cited, the "DME required" statement in the notes section doesn't solely apply to the missed approach; it also can apply anywhere outside of the final approach segment. Based on the DME-defined stepdowns preceding the final approach fix, that appears to be the case on this approach.

"When radar or other equipment is required on
portions of the procedure outside the final approach
segment, including the missed approach, a note will
be charted in the notes box of the pilot briefing
portion of the approach chart (e.g., RADAR
REQUIRED or DME REQUIRED)."
​

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Where is the Missed Approach Holding Point??

Talking about being surprised by a plate.. at some point I found out there was no MAHP for RNAV approach at my home airport. Instead there is only Missed Approach Fix.

Strangely, ILS for the same runway does have MAHP.

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1903/06075R25R.PDF

Well... That's interesting. I don't think I've ever seen one without a hold before. I wonder why this doesn't have one? Might want to start a new thread for that tho.

 

[Lon33]

This discussion reminds me of Dan Brown's novel "The Da Vinci Code." The novel was great. This discussion was equally great. But shouldn't approach plates be more easily understood than the Da Vinci Code?

 

[Palmpilot]

Well... That's interesting. I don't think I've ever seen one without a hold before. I wonder why this doesn't have one? Might want to start a new thread for that tho.

There used to an approach at Concord, CA (CCR) that didn't have a missed-approach hold, but all the approaches there have one now.

 

[aterpster]

Well... That's interesting. I don't think I've ever seen one without a hold before. I wonder why this doesn't have one? Might want to start a new thread for that tho.

Here's one that tells you to hold but doesn't have a depicted holding pattern:

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1903/05310il24.pdf

 

[Palmpilot]

Here's one that tells you to hold but doesn't have a depicted holding pattern:

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1903/05310il24.pdf

Since that link will expire, I'm attaching the PDF for future reference.

 

[luvflyin]

Here's one that tells you to hold but doesn't have a depicted holding pattern:

https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1903/05310il24.pdf

What's that Order RNAV Approaches are constructed with instead of TERPS?

 

[RussR]

What's that Order RNAV Approaches are constructed with instead of TERPS?

FAAO 8260.58A: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol...fm/go/document.information/documentID/1029267

Anything not specifically addressed in it is handled the same as in the 8260.3D.

 

[luvflyin]

FAAO 8260.58A: https://www.faa.gov/regulations_pol...fm/go/document.information/documentID/1029267

Anything not specifically addressed in it is handled the same as in the 8260.3D.

Thanks

 

[Clip4]

According to the AIM section that Mark cited, the "DME required" statement in the notes section doesn't solely apply to the missed approach; it also can apply anywhere outside of the final approach segment. Based on the DME-defined stepdowns preceding the final approach fix, that appears to be the case on this approach.

"When radar or other equipment is required on
portions of the procedure outside the final approach
segment, including the missed approach, a note will
be charted in the notes box of the pilot briefing
portion of the approach chart (e.g., RADAR
REQUIRED or DME REQUIRED)."
​

Fair enough. Where is the MAP in the event of comm failure and how do you execute the published miss.?

 

[midlifeflyer]

Fair enough. Where is the MAP in the event of comm failure and how do you execute the published miss.?

Com failure? Same place as with coms. The published DME fix.

 

[Dave S.]

If requested tower or approach will call any dme fix you need on the final.

tex

 

[flyingcheesehead]

If requested tower or approach will call any dme fix you need on the final.

Huh? Not true. Tower doesn't have your distance unless they have a scope (not all do). Approach can call some fixes, but not all: They're the ones that say "RADAR" underneath. For example OZMIX on the ILS 36 KMSN.

 

[aterpster]

If requested tower or approach will call any dme fix you need on the final.

tex

Not less it states "DME or Radar" at the fix. That is not done with MAPs.