When do the nerves stop?

Challenged

Challenged

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Challenged
I'm a fairly new Private Pilot (got my ticket back in February), but before my training started I had never been in a small plane. I was able to solo after only 9 hours, and have been told that I'm a very good pilot by both my instructors and my PPL examiner. I now have about 110 hours and have even done a number of longish trips as PIC (350nm and 550nm) over the past few months.

That said, I find myself still a bit anxious whenever I fly. Maybe anxious isn't quite the right word though, perhaps it would be better explained as having a more intense focus than I feel is normal for someone who is completely comfortable with flying. It doesn't stop me from flying, so I don't want to make it out to be something more than it is, but I am also cognizant of my not being completely relaxed either.

I have had a bit of excitement with flying recently (http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41589 ) but I felt the same before that experience, so I don't think it was anything directly related to that. I guess I'm wondering if this is just part of building hours, or if it's something unique to my personality and cautiousness level perhaps? It's unusual for me since I've consistently been told that I'm a very laid back person in general.
 
Use it. I feel similarly. Indeed, the feeling keeps me from eating much when I fly, good for keeping the horizontal under control. Keeps me sharp and on the edge as well. Maybe I'll never get complacent, because of the anxiety. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one.
 
Challenged said:
That said, I find myself still a bit anxious whenever I fly. Maybe anxious isn't quite the right word though, perhaps it would be better explained as having a more intense focus than I feel is normal for someone who is completely comfortable with flying. It doesn't stop me from flying, so I don't want to make it out to be something more than it is, but I am also cognizant of my not being completely relaxed either.
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I would say that being focused is a good thing.
 
Never.

As has been said, though, heightened awareness is a good trait in a pilot.
 
I have to agree with the above- being more intensely focused is not a newbie trait, and not a bad thing. Even being a little scared, if only for a moment, is very healthy, if you don't let it become something that messes with your focus.
Chances are you will generally feel more relaxed about flying as you gain more experience, but if you still get a little "stage fright" once in a while, don't let it bother you.
 
A little paranoia (okay not paranoia, but caution) is a good thing. Imagine if car drivers had that? How many accidents would it prevent?
 
I can definitely see the positive side to it, and for the most part I don't mind it. I guess the main downside is that I find it exhausting to not be able to completely relax on the longer flights. I also don't think I'm enjoying the actual flying aspect as much as I could be if I were less focused at times.
 
Being relaxed but alert is a great thing.
 
Challenged said:
I can definitely see the positive side to it, and for the most part I don't mind it. I guess the main downside is that I find it exhausting to not be able to completely relax on the longer flights. I also don't think I'm enjoying the actual flying aspect as much as I could be if I were less focused at times.
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I feel EXACTLY the same way lol. Flying an hour to Miami and back was exahusting for me while my wife and daughter are having a blast, then they wonder why I'm passed out at 9:30.. pretty stressful :lol:
 
If flying ever gets to be as "routine" for you as driving a car - then you need to drive the car instead of flying.

Flying an aircraft requires more attention to detail and situational awareness. Anytime the aircraft is off the ground (and sometimes on the ground) it has enough energy to kill you in a rather messy manner. It's up to you to stay focused enough to contain and direct that energy to keep the aircraft under control, all the time, everytime. Never lose that.

VTC_WS6 said:
I feel EXACTLY the same way lol. Flying an hour to Miami and back was exahusting for me while my wife and daughter are having a blast, then they wonder why I'm passed out at 9:30.. pretty stressful :lol:
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Yup - many times after I've landed my fiancee will try to get me involved in some decision or other, and I just tell her that I've been flying and making decisions nonstop in the air, and now that I'm on the ground my brain is completely done making decisions for about thirty minutes. Don't ask me what I want to watch on TV, don't ask me what I want for dinner, don't ask me if that dress makes you look fat.
 
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I am usually exhausted after long flights. We flew to Vermont one time, about 5.5 hours in the Cherokee (with a pit stop). When we got there, my brother (whom we'd come to visit) took us out to one of his gigs at a bar. Normally I'd drink my six off and have a blast, but I was so dead...
 
As am not licensed--yet--I can't speak about anything but my student flying. Even after my three solo flights I felt OK and wasn't aware of being "anxious" but I have noticed that a few hours post-flight, I tend to be ready for bed much earlier than normal. :D

I agree that a bit of tension is probably a good antidote to complacency. If I ever feel complacency set in, it'll probably be when I switch hobbies.
 
I'm just passed 150 hours (and a little more than half that as a private pilot). For the first little while, I always felt like everything up to the takeoff roll happened too fast, and I had a little nagging voice in the back of my head telling me I couldn't possibly have gotten everything done. That voice is still there, but I've developed some systematic ways to deal with it - questions to ask myself and mental checklists that I can run very quickly that go a long way to satisfying myself that I have touched all the bases. I'm finding that the unpleasant aspect of the pre-flight jitters that I used to have a lot of has dissipated quite a bit, but I still do feel a lot more focussed than when I do other things.
 
This is a really interesting thread. I once told my wife that flying was scary but in a good way. I think it has to do with the fact that in a very real way every flight is a test. A test of your judgement, skill, planning, and decision making.

I used to get nervous before exams in high school and university because it seemed there was always so much riding on it. It was worst just before starting. Sometimes there bad exams, but more times than not once I got going and realized I could handle the test I got more confident and I just answered the questions and forgot all about being nervous.

It's like that.
 
interesting thread about long flights leaving you tired. I decided to buy an oxygen bottle. On a flight from Tacoma, WA to San Diego I arrived really feeling good. I was in far better shape than if I had spent the same time driving.-)

Paul
N1431A
2AZ1
 
chucky said:
I'm just passed 150 hours (and a little more than half that as a private pilot). For the first little while, I always felt like everything up to the takeoff roll happened too fast, and I had a little nagging voice in the back of my head telling me I couldn't possibly have gotten everything done. That voice is still there, but I've developed some systematic ways to deal with it - questions to ask myself and mental checklists that I can run very quickly that go a long way to satisfying myself that I have touched all the bases. I'm finding that the unpleasant aspect of the pre-flight jitters that I used to have a lot of has dissipated quite a bit, but I still do feel a lot more focussed than when I do other things.
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I'm reminded of a placard some sailor had posted on his boat for his crew:

"If everything seems to be going smoothly, you've obviously overlooked something." :lol:

I got that feeling fairly often on my student x-countries.
 
Being tired after a long single-pilot flight is normal. The way to "fix" it, is to bring two pilots and truly hand of PIC duties between pilots on different legs. You can relax, sit back, and enjoy the view a little more.

(Good) autopilots also help, but you can't let them lull you into a false sense of "the airplane's flying itself".

Basically read any article on how difficult single-pilot IFR is, and the same things that make that difficult are the same reasons doing single-pilot VFR is -- you just have less chance of running into something because you misread a chart.

After a while it's a common sense of "alert but relaxed" but you're never going to be just a passenger ever again unless you're not PIC and you're in the back seat where you can't reach anything. (And you probably won't like that feeling much after having flown... GRIN...)
 
denverpilot said:
Being tired after a long single-pilot flight is normal. The way to "fix" it, is to bring two pilots and truly hand of PIC duties between pilots on different legs. You can relax, sit back, and enjoy the view a little more.
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I've learned never to fly more than 5 hours a day unless there's another pilot with me to trade off. Did 10.5 in one day last fall, but there were 2 pilots flying and a 3rd in the back seat as a spare, just in case. The day I did 6.5 by myself, I don't remember the next day. Because of that, I bought an O2 bottle. Any time I'm by myself and the flight is more than an hour long, I'm on O2. It definitely helps.
 
I'll just get on board with everyone else...you should never get completely comfortable when flying. If that is interpreted as complacency, so be it. Remember during your student pilot days when the instructor would say "Where would you put it if the engine quit right now?" Without that degree of specificity, that is what you want...always know where you are and what is going on. Never completely relax unless you are in the back and two professionals are up front.

Bob Gardner
 
TripleZ said:
Same feeling, although I'm only at the 75hr mark.
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Same feeling, although I'm only at the 750 hour mark (well, 740 anyway). ;)

And someone mentioned autopilots... the only thing the A/P does is free up some cycles that I can devote to other things (like checking the CHTs, voltage, etc.). I'm never laid back when flying, ever.

But I don't get the pre-flight jitters as much as I used to. It's just when the wheels start to roll, something in me knows I have to be at my best.
 
There are different kind of "nerves" for pilots. Everyone has hit on the good side of them, but just to be different I thought I would make a quick blurt about the not so good nerves.

You are probably talking more about anxiety. The kind where during an approach your grip on the yoke gets tighter and tighter as you near the runway. To an extent that is good, and to an extent that is bad. The bad part is that as the muscles tense up they loose their finesse and some of their tactile feel. If you have ever made a landing in fairly strong crosswinds where you flew the plane all the way to the tie downs then you also probably got out of the plane with a high heart rate, a euphoric high, and dead tired. The nerves that are good deal with everything except for the part about being tired. You can inadvertently prevent yourself from having a better "feel" of the plane by becoming stiff with anxiety.

Often you will hear pilots say, my landings started to become consistent and smooth around (name some total time mark).... What they meant to say was that one day everything just clicked. That was the day that they became comfortable with the plane. They may describe it as how they gained a good feel for the plane after x hours, but again it was more or less the point at which they became comfortable with the plane. This isn't complacency in any way. This is the day that you are able to relax in the plane and really feel what it is doing. If you are tense, you will be amazed to find out how jerky and sometimes even correct your own corrections because you over do something but don't realize it was because of the greater strength you're using on the controls from being nervous (in the bad way). That is what you want to try and get away from. When that point occurs will vary... but, a great way to see what I'm talking about is to go do some touch and goes on a nice and windy day. Then find a day that is as smooth as can be, talk to yourself the whole way day by telling yourself to relax. On the smooth day, you will be able to recognize when you are tensing up since you won't be so task saturated.

At least, it seemed to me like a lot of pilots who said they were nervous became nervous and over piloted the airplane. Some of the causes that can make someone nervous would include: uncertainty in your ability, feeling task saturated, lack of experience in a particular model.... ect... Sometimes you can look for key causes and remind yourself about them while flying.

Otherwise, everyone else pretty much hashed out the good side of the "nerves".
 
bob_albertson said:
You are probably talking more about anxiety. The kind where during an approach your grip on the yoke gets tighter and tighter as you near the runway. To an extent that is good, and to an extent that is bad. The bad part is that as the muscles tense up they loose their finesse and some of their tactile feel.
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That is a good point -- physically tensing up will just make you tired and you'll over-control everything.

I had a CFI kinda half-jokingly karate chop me right between my shoulder and my neck when he noticed that during some of my early landings, my shoulders would head for my ears every time.

I never forgot that... he told me to relax the shoulders, let 'em droop. I still catch myself to this day in a blustery wind or difficult landing, thinking to myself... "relax the shoulders" on short-final. (I probably should do it much sooner, but that's just where my trigger point is to remember it because of that karate chop to the very tense muscle many many years ago.)

Turbulence can also trigger it in me. If I get all tensed up in that, I come out feeling like I was tossed and beat up and REALLY tired. Having the body a little "looser" but not totally "floppy" is better for riding out the bumps.

I try to remember (should just put it on the pre-landing checklist) to forcibly think "Relax!" and go from head to toe just letting any major muscles that are clenched, to let go, prior to entering the pattern on a bumpy or otherwise stressful flight... turbulence, working hard to avoid scattered clouds VFR, watching T-storms in the distant vicinity or working around them on a long XC, diversions to other airports, gusty cross-winds... anything that's got me past "on edge enough to be sharp" and over into "clenching up, wearing myself out"... has to go. Sometimes it takes a brief, but conscious effort.

One well-timed karate chop to the neck was all it took to have me forever remember it. My CFI said, "Nathan, it looks like your shoulders are headed for your ears!" and smiled a big disarming grin at me after he did it.
 
steamee said:
This is a really interesting thread. I once told my wife that flying was scary but in a good way. I think it has to do with the fact that in a very real way every flight is a test. A test of your judgement, skill, planning, and decision making.
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I agree ... really interesting topic. I kind of feel the same and it is difficult to explain to people. I never want to use the word "scary" when talking to people, even/especially my wife. I always tell people that flying is an extremely intense experience. I absolutely LOVE flying and get irritable and grumpy if I don't fly enough, but I too am tired after a long flight. Being a VFR only pilot, I've found that making sure I have perfect weather for a long flight greatly reduces the stress. A 7 hour flight to Florida in CAVU is much less tiring than a 2 hour flight to Cleveland with cruddy weather and low but VFR ceilings and visibility.

Love this board and it's nice to see topics like this covered. Something I have thought about often but never discussed with another pilot.
 
airguy said:
don't ask me what I want for dinner, don't ask me if that dress makes you look fat.
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Are you sure you aren't using that as an excuse?:D



I have a little over 1500 hours. I have the same issue. I will even go so far as to say it was (and sometimes still is) far enough to cause problems. Each person is different, so the level of unease is different. The only thing that eases my mind are constant practice and use. If I go for long periods of not flying, the uneasiness comes back worse. Each level of piloting I have reached came with a new level of anxiety worse than the level before. While it never incapacitated me, it made things like memorized mnemonics impossible. In instrument flight, scanning would break down and I would overcontrol the airplane constantly. As I pushed myself, the anxiety lessens to the point that I can SOMEWHAT relax and the tasks become easier. As I experience more things outside my comfort envelope, I am able to deal with lesser problems easier. I still get uneasy, and I am definitely exhausted at the end of most flights. Charter flying has helped me relax quite a bit.
 
bobmrg said:
I'll just get on board with everyone else...you should never get completely comfortable when flying. If that is interpreted as complacency, so be it. Remember during your student pilot days when the instructor would say "Where would you put it if the engine quit right now?" Without that degree of specificity, that is what you want...always know where you are and what is going on. Never completely relax unless you are in the back and two professionals are up front.

Bob Gardner
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As usual, Bob is spot on --whenever I start feeling on top of everything and just listening to the engine drone, I remember what it's like when it stops.

:yikes:

This thought also makes me a bit more cautious about routes and times. I'm not as quick to launch after dark.

The two most important things in flying: The next thing, and the next thing after that.
 
Several people have mentioned the pre-flight jitters (though not always in those words), and I was glad to see that. My mild anxiety starts when I pick up the chart to do my preliminary planning, gets a bump when I review the weather and make a preliminary go/no-go decision, then peaks as I'm pulling up to the hangar. I'm not consciously thinking of worst-case scenarios, but sometimes I do consciously think, "Am I going to miss something today that's going to hurt me?"

Once the engine starts, though, the butterflies in the stomach diminish. I've got too much to focus on, and there's no spare time for my mind to wander and see shadows in the corners. Going through the "rituals" of the engine start checklist, the runup, and the takeoff help center me into "pilot" mode, and I stay in that mode until the engine is off again.

And some days...especially the hot ones...when I get done with pilot mode, the only other mode available is "vegetable"! : )
 
The better you know your machine, yourself and the environment and your options at any time, the more relaxed and comfortable you will be. I did not say complacent.
 
Challenged said:
I'm a fairly new Private Pilot (got my ticket back in February), but before my training started I had never been in a small plane. I was able to solo after only 9 hours, and have been told that I'm a very good pilot by both my instructors and my PPL examiner. I now have about 110 hours and have even done a number of longish trips as PIC (350nm and 550nm) over the past few months.

That said, I find myself still a bit anxious whenever I fly. Maybe anxious isn't quite the right word though, perhaps it would be better explained as having a more intense focus than I feel is normal for someone who is completely comfortable with flying. It doesn't stop me from flying, so I don't want to make it out to be something more than it is, but I am also cognizant of my not being completely relaxed either.

I have had a bit of excitement with flying recently (http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41589 ) but I felt the same before that experience, so I don't think it was anything directly related to that. I guess I'm wondering if this is just part of building hours, or if it's something unique to my personality and cautiousness level perhaps? It's unusual for me since I've consistently been told that I'm a very laid back person in general.
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Welcome to EXACTLY how I feel, every time I fly. I have 250 or so hours and I still get the butterflies when I fly. I also had that when I was a paratrooper before every jump.

It is just one man's opinion, but the day you truly no longer feel any anxiety at flying is the day you need to quit.
 
"If flying ever gets to be as "routine" for you as driving a car - then you need to drive the car instead of flying."

As a low-time 1200 hour IFR pilot I can tell you that the heightened nerves haven't gone away before the flight, especially when the weather is less then satisfactory and the payload is precious. However, once the wheels are up and 1000' of air is underneath the nerves go away and I kick into the other good line posted above:

"Being relaxed but alert is a great thing"

Working the IFR system, gather information on what adventures Mother Nature has dealt, making contingency plans, and of course flying the plane becomes quite enjoyable. The best part of course is the good feeling when the wheels chirp at the other end and you know you've done what very few people can do.
 
Thanks for posting this. I only have about 90 hours and I too get anxious before a flight. I thought it was just me.
 
airguy said:
If flying ever gets to be as "routine" for you as driving a car - then you need to drive the car instead of flying.
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Someone once told me "never say never or always". Flying for me is more routine than driving a car. I drive 5 mins to the hanger, fly 45 mins to work, walk to the office, fly once or twice at work, walk to my plane, fly 45 mins home and drive 5 mins to my house. If the weather is nice I ride my bicycle to the hangar, so sometimes I drive less.

Honestly flying is much less stress for me than driving. Clear VFR days are stress relief!

Having said that, some IFR days (Glasair) or big missions (work) definitely make me more focused. I think it's good (especially for inexperienced pilots) to have a hightened sense of awareness/surroundings for the first 10 years or so of flying. I agree with bob_anderson - one day it will just click. Your cross check as a pilot constantly expands - at first it's just horizon and airspeed, then altimeter, etc. Eventually you are thinking about flying, ATC comms, maintenance, weather, emergency procedures, what-ifs and your grocery list while still jamming out to your iPod.

I'm not posting to say that you shouldn't be nervous/whatever when flying, just saying that it's not going to be forever for most people. If you fly enough it will get routine - the challenge is to not let yourself settle into it. Constantly finding ways to expand your SA and skillsets will help keep you sharp when the routine sets in.
 
After you have had the, "climbed down and kissed the ground" you might have apprehensions but no anxiety every again.

For me it happened around my thousandth hours.....
 
I would say that once you've done something a thousand times it gets pretty routine. However I would say that when you are trying something new there is more of a sense of pressure no matter how much time you have. But I've learned that the most important things about flying are not getting too slow or too fast and not hitting anything. Everything else is gravy.
 
Relaxation in an aircraft only comes with an acceptance of ones death and having a fatalistic/predetermined view on life. There is nothing inherently safe about flying. There are very few mistakes that you can make that cannot compound to kill you. So, if you aren't completely comfortable while flying, there's nothing particularly wrong with that.
 
My second go around (no pun intended) and I have to say, at 48 years old, I find much less stress involved with flying. Some jitters during pre-flight, but they all go away when the engine starts.

I think its knowledge that helps ease the stress. I learned 22 years ago and at 26 years old, I was not only immature, but I'm smarter now with more common sense as well as a better understanding of what I'm doing within the confines of the aluminum and also within the system itself.

At 25 years old I studied my ass off to pass my PP test and in doing so, I memorized every question they could throw at me and I got a 98%. However if I took the test today, I'd probably squeak by with something in the 70's but I am 10X more knowledgeable.

This puts me at ease.

It doesn't hurt that my current instructor has me doing emergency simulated engine failures and I'm nailing all of them as opposed to nailing NONE of them as a 25 year old. I never realized how easy and fun full slips were. I hated them when I was younger and therefor I overshot every field I ever tried to get into (except for the one time I had to do it for real).

Age and Wisdom= comfort
 
Can you imagine what the heart rate of the Shuttle Commander is when the solid rocket boosters kick in? Do you think he (they) have any apprehension? That's what pilot training is all about...dealing with potential events. I think I could teach a monkey to fly an airplane, but it's when a "situation" arises...that's when the Pilot in you comes out. That's what your training prepared you for (Same as the shuttle pilots or Commercial flight XYZ). As your experience level expands, your apprehension will change (as your confidence grows) but never go away...as it should be. Those short trips outside your comfort zone are building blocks to becoming a master pilot.
 
The more you fly, the less it will bother you. If you go long periods without flying, it will get to you again.

For most, once they have gotten into the cockpit and begun the work at hand, the anxious feeling disappears.

Fear is natures way of keeping you on your toes, it's a good thing, it's called self preservation. It's a good thing as long as it doesn't take over completely, rendering you useless.

John Wayne once said "Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway."

John
 
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