When Did the 737 Become Transcontinental Aircraft?

DJTorrente

DJTorrente

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I'm booking a flight to haul the family out to see my brother's family on the opposite coast (love the borther; hate having to play the part of self-loading cargo on a human mailing tube). Anyway, the non-stop flights I'm seeing are 737 equipment down the line; only the occasional A320 for change of pace. I haven't flown commercial in a few years, and many of my old routes were turboprop or RJ territory. I thought the 73 was more of a north-south kind of plane.
 
they keep putting bigger engines and bigger gas tanks on the thing. i think they keep making the fuselage bigger too.
 
737-800 is longer range due to substantial improvements in engine efficiency and some aerodynamic improvements. One of the partners in my plane flies one for his day job.
 
I was just thinking the same thing. I'm flying PHL -SFO tomorrow and I'm on a 737-700. Guess those engines are just getting incredibly efficient.
 
Well, when the RJ's took over the routes that both the turboprops and the 73's used to fly, well, Boeing had to make 'em useful for something else.

And considering the last time I went from WI to TX it was via RJ, I'd much prefer the 737!
 
Aloha airlines flew 737-700's from California to Hawaii.
 
Because the 737 have become so efficient and require less crew, they can run them at a lower per seat/per mile costs than the traditional long haul bigger planes.
 
Actually they're gonna hollow-out all the 777s and turn them into tankers. That way they can keep the RJs going indefinitely !
 
Yep, there's 180 min ETOPS for 737's available now. Frankly, the coach seats in a 737 aren't particularly worse than the ones in the 767 which have to be the largest regression in passenger comfort I've ever seen.

Still it's a far cry from the day when you could expect a wide body on your west coast-east coast runs. I even remember a 777 from SFO to IAD (might have had to stop at ORD on that one).
 
On a related note, I sometimes see British airways A320's (that's when they look like to me) coming into JFK. Are A320's really making the Atlantic crossing? Any time I've used BA from JFK to Heathrow, it was a 747 or 777. Where are these little BA jets coming from?
 
Until the merger with Air Tran, Southwest used only 737s. This thread is interesting talking about how efficient the 737 is. While Herb Kelleher was at the helm of the airline it did well. I wonder how it will do now that it has lost Herb and merged with Air Tran?
 
Warrior said:
Until the merger with Air Tran, Southwest used only 737s. This thread is interesting talking about how efficient the 737 is. While Herb Kelleher was at the helm of the airline it did well. I wonder how it will do now that it has lost Herb and merged with Air Tran?
Click to expand...

Southwest flew 757s
 
SkyHog said:
Southwest flew 757s
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No 757s, but there were, in the early years, several times when Southwest used 727s, including a wet-lease from Braniff, with Braniff pilots and Southwest cabin crew. That was... funny.
 
Warrior said:
Until the merger with Air Tran, Southwest used only 737s. This thread is interesting talking about how efficient the 737 is. While Herb Kelleher was at the helm of the airline it did well. I wonder how it will do now that it has lost Herb and merged with Air Tran?
Click to expand...

Southwest initially planned to integrate all of the non 737's from Airtran into their fleet, but ultimately decided against it. They are in the process of refurbishing all of their older fleet to the new "evolve" interiors as well as slowly redoing Airtran 737's into Southwest planes. They are dumping the rest of the fleet as the merger transitions sticking to at 737 only fleet model. They have added some 737-800's in anticipation of adding "international" travel to Hawaii and when they take over all of Airtran operations in 2015.
 
jasc15 said:
On a related note, I sometimes see British airways A320's (that's when they look like to me) coming into JFK. Are A320's really making the Atlantic crossing? Any time I've used BA from JFK to Heathrow, it was a 747 or 777. Where are these little BA jets coming from?
Click to expand...

Those are A318s in all biz configuration coming from London City. Westbound, they stop in Shannon where they refuel and clear US customs, because the runway at LCY is too short to take off fully loaded. Eastbound the flight is nonstop.
 
Warrior said:
Until the merger with Air Tran, Southwest used only 737s. This thread is interesting talking about how efficient the 737 is. While Herb Kelleher was at the helm of the airline it did well. I wonder how it will do now that it has lost Herb and merged with Air Tran?
Click to expand...

Not so much "efficient," though that's a factor. Modern 737s are quite a bit bigger than the older models. It's not like the 747s where the fuselage size stayed essentially constant (except for the -SP and -8).

MTOW for a 737-100 was 111,000 lb. The later ones are up to 187,000 lb. The length started at 94 feet and extended to 138 feet. The newest models hold about 50% more fuel than the oldest models.
 
The scary part is, the 737 MAX already has 1500 or so orders, with deliveries starting 2017. Just how big are they going to make that thing?
 
flyingron said:
Yep, there's 180 min ETOPS for 737's available now. Frankly, the coach seats in a 737 aren't particularly worse than the ones in the 767 which have to be the largest regression in passenger comfort I've ever seen.
Click to expand...

OMG, I rode in a 767 ETOPS from Newark to Tel Aviv. Thought I was going to die. I'll fork over the cash for Business next time, don't care how much it costs.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Well, when the RJ's took over the routes that both the turboprops and the 73's used to fly, well, Boeing had to make 'em useful for something else.
Click to expand...

It amazes me the routes they use RJs for.
Denver <--> Memphis
Denver <--> Palm Springs

Really?
 
I took a CRJ from KSFO to KCOS and back recently. Seemed rather reasonable, actually. When one end is a small market, you can either take a 200 seat airplane with 50 people on it or a 60 seat airplane with 50 people on it. Those RJs can turn around FAST, too. I witnessed UAL do it in barely over 10 minutes. Rather stunning.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Well, when the RJ's took over the routes that both the turboprops and the 73's used to fly, well, Boeing had to make 'em useful for something else.

And considering the last time I went from WI to TX it was via RJ, I'd much prefer the 737!
Click to expand...

CRJs are a Canadian conspiracy against large Americans. I hate those ****ing things. Seriously, who thought up putting the window by your elbow?

I earned status on US Air when I lived in Charlotte by flying CRJs 90% of the time. I should have received an oak leaf cluster and a V for valor on my frequent flyer card.
 
jpower said:
Those are A318s in all biz configuration coming from London City. Westbound, they stop in Shannon where they refuel and clear US customs, because the runway at LCY is too short to take off fully loaded. Eastbound the flight is nonstop.
Click to expand...

How 'bout that.

Also:

They are operated in a 32-seat all business class configuration as flights BA001-4, the flight numbers previously used by Concorde on flights to New York.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A318#Steep_approach_capability
 
PilotAlan said:
It amazes me the routes they use RJs for.
Denver <--> Memphis 760 NM
Denver <--> Palm Springs 675 NM

Really?
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(linky)

Those distances doesn't seem to me out of line for an RJ. Is it the mountains?
 
MAKG1 said:
Not so much "efficient," though that's a factor. Modern 737s are quite a bit bigger than the older models. It's not like the 747s where the fuselage size stayed essentially constant (except for the -SP and -8).

MTOW for a 737-100 was 111,000 lb. The later ones are up to 187,000 lb. The length started at 94 feet and extended to 138 feet. The newest models hold about 50% more fuel than the oldest models.
Click to expand...

You ain't kidding about the size changes (I tried inserting the attached pic in-line to the message -- its crazy wide). Wikipedia linky.

But it can't just be bigger engines + more gas -- if you're carrying more load, that usually only takes you the same distance. It looks like the NGs are the real watershed improvement to transcon range.
 

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Shawn said:
Southwest initially planned to integrate all of the non 737's from Airtran into their fleet, but ultimately decided against it. They are in the process of refurbishing all of their older fleet to the new "evolve" interiors as well as slowly redoing Airtran 737's into Southwest planes. They are dumping the rest of the fleet as the merger transitions sticking to at 737 only fleet model. They have added some 737-800's in anticipation of adding "international" travel to Hawaii and when they take over all of Airtran operations in 2015.
Click to expand...

thanks for the information. I like the business model of having only one airplane in your fleet.
 
About 4 years ago, I flew in an Alaska Airlines 737 from Seattle to Honolulu. Skyvector shows this trip at 2300+ miles! I'm sure we were running on empty by the time we got there.

Alaska still some of the best service around in First Class. Nice trip, just a smaller-than-expected plane for this run.
 
The 737Max will be about the same size as the existing 737NG models dating from ~1997 to present. That program is a tweak for increased efficiency, not to make the fuselages larger. The 737's have back-filled the market that used to be served by the 757 in many cases. The various models offer quite a bit of flexibility to the airline customer.
 
PilotAlan said:
OMG, I rode in a 767 ETOPS from Newark to Tel Aviv. Thought I was going to die. I'll fork over the cash for Business next time, don't care how much it costs.
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You mean just because you were stuck in coach for the extended time period?

One of my good friends is moving to Australia. I would have to fly 6hrs to LAX then 15 hours to sydney. Would love to go but don't know if I can handle it.

2k for a coach ticket and 7500 for business class
 
Last May when my friends and I went to Reno, NV for the AAAE Conference, I was on an American Airlines flight from New York LaGuardia Airport to Reno, NV with a connecting flight in Dallas. We used the Boeing 737-800 (or 700, I don't remember) from LGA to DFW and a MD-80 from DFW to Reno. My friends and I sat all the way in the back of the MD-80 so I can't even look out of the window since the engines at the back of the aircraft were blocking my view!!!:eek:

When we went home, we used a CRJ-200 from Reno to Los Angeles and a Boeing 767 from Los Angeles to JFK. Seems that 767s are still used for transcontinental flights.
 
Art VanDelay said:
That's been since about 1997. Actually there's a Swiss Airline that flies an all First Class 50 seat 737 between Zurich and NYC.
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Gotcha. I'm guessing it was CO that started the trend of flying 75's over the atlantic, right?
 
GCA319 said:
Gotcha. I'm guessing it was CO that started the trend of flying 75's over the atlantic, right?
Click to expand...

About 10 years ago, I flew on a Northwest 757 from Hartford,CT to Amsterdam. That was a pretty neat connection as I lived near BDL and it got me to sweden in only 2 hops. Also, on the way back, clearing immigration in Hartford was infinitely more pleasant than the alternatives at the hubs.

Next saturday, I'll be on a 757 from Heathrow to Dulles, the boss was nice enought to spring for business :yes: .
 
MN_Flyer said:
About 4 years ago, I flew in an Alaska Airlines 737 from Seattle to Honolulu. Skyvector shows this trip at 2300+ miles! I'm sure we were running on empty by the time we got there.

Alaska still some of the best service around in First Class. Nice trip, just a smaller-than-expected plane for this run.
Click to expand...


They fly them from Anchorage to Honolulu as well…

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/ASA870

Direct: 2,783 sm Planned: 2,857 sm
 
dell30rb said:
You mean just because you were stuck in coach for the extended time period?

One of my good friends is moving to Australia. I would have to fly 6hrs to LAX then 15 hours to sydney. Would love to go but don't know if I can handle it.

2k for a coach ticket and 7500 for business class
Click to expand...

QANTAS non-stop from DFW. Friends don't let friends connect at LAX.
 
Gol 737-800 from Bogota to Sao Paulo, 4341 kms, almost 6 hours....very long takeoff run out of BOG
 
737-900 is about as long as they can make it without changing the landing gear. It has a tail skid to limit the damage from over rotating.

The 707/727/737/757 all share the same fuselage, and the 737-900 is really just a 757 replacement.

As much as I dislike the Airbus control philosophy, the extra width on the A320 is nice. On most airlines, the seats on an A320 are an inch wider than 737 seats.
 
You should get a load of the AFM for the P8.
This is a 737 with enough fuel to go halfway around the planet.
Trouble is, it needs 8000 feet of runway.

I think somebody got paid off.
 
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