When A Child Doesn't Want to Fly

[geneseib]

Think of the percentage of people in the country that are pilots. Think of the percentage of people in the country who at least enjoy flying in a small aircraft. Then look at your kids. You've done great. They have been exposed to and thrived on experiences that few have. Those experiences will enrich their lives forever, no matter what walk of life or interest they go into. They are now fans of flying. Your daughter going through training that she's not really passionate about might actually damage that image of flying. They are individuals who will develop in their own way. Think of the things your parents were passionate about, but you weren't. You know how parents pushing their passions, interests, or beliefs on kids can backfire, no matter how good or well meaning they are. Be very proud of what you've imparted to your kids. Allow them to each blossom in their own way. Their time in the air will always be a special part of them. They will be better people for it.

 

[ajstoner21]

Our daughter is now 17, and we have had great difficulty finding proper flight instruction for her at our new home. CFIs are scarce here, and rental planes even scarcer -- but we've persisted, and have finally found a suitable instructor who is willing to fly to the island to give her lessons.

Sounds just like my coworkers daughter. He says she is a great autopilot for long trips.

 

[Jay Honeck]

I started flying lessons when I was 17. I'm the daughter of a pilot (Air Force, then Pan Am). I quit because I couldn't stand the sexist instructor. It sounds stupid to me now, and I'd never put up with that crap now, but at the time, I had so many other things to do that dealing with a sexist ******* was low on my list of priorities. I had great difficulty verbalizing that to my parents. It took me twenty years to come back to it and I paid for it myself. I really have been kicking myself for years that I didn't finish then. Then I left the country for a decade, then didn't have money, etc, etc. My father was so proud of me when I passed my checkride! I am truly sorry I didnt finish twenty years ago.

Anyway, maybe try to make sure of her reasoning why she doesn't want to. If either of my parents had really pressed the issue, it might have been different.

Thank you for posting. This is EXACTLY what I'm wondering might be an alternative approach to "waiting and supporting".

I certainly don't want to be the "do it!" kind of parent. On the other hand, some kids need a nudge, and I don't want her to end up kicking herself, for possibly the rest of her life, because I didn't nudge her.

Being a parent is not easy.

 

[ajstoner21]

Thank you for posting. This is EXACTLY what I'm wondering might be an alternative approach to "waiting and supporting".

I certainly don't want to be the "do it!" kind of parent. On the other hand, some kids need a nudge, and I don't want her to end up kicking herself, for possibly the rest of her life, because I didn't nudge her.

Being a parent is not easy.

Personally, I say fly as much as you can, as early as you can. I'd hate for the decision to be made for me (if medical issues came up)...

 

[Doggtyred]

Sometimes your children share your passions. Sometimes they don't. Either way, it's generally not a reflection on your parenting skills. Don't sweat it.

Best answer I've seen so far.

Find what does interest her and support that.

You aren't raising a clone. You are raising someone to be an individual.

 

[ebetancourt]

A tale of two girls...

My eldest granddaughter flew with me a lot, and seemed to love it. We did a lot of things she seemed to really enjoy. But when it came time to learn to land, well... she lost interest.

My youngest is 15 has about 30 hours logged and will easily solo on her 16th birthday.

The difference may have been... ME.

How many of us do what you describe, let children do a lot of flying, then take over the landing. Are we building the thought that the landing is hard and beyond their ability? Intimidating them to the point that they are afraid to try? With the youngest, I went straight to landing, but in a different way. First we went to altitude, and I pointed out that the stick was the airspeed control. We practiced holding various airspeeds slow and fast, while I played with the throttle. Airspeed control became easy and second nature. Then we practiced "not landing," flying a pattern to a low approach and focusing entirely on aircraft alignment, airspeed control and drift. Low got down to about 2-4 feet. We flew down the centerline, just above a stall, eventually moving 10-15 feet either side of centerline by dropping a wing while concentrating on keeping the airplane aligned. It didn't take long to turn these into wheel landings and then into three point landings. She has landed in 15K direct crosswinds, and it's all just no big deal.

I am a CFI and this is all in a Citabria. Definitely not scientific research, but I have a very different attitude toward kids flying now.

Ernie

 

[Dean]

My step son is the same way, he likes to go flying but has no interest in becoming a pilot. His passion is horses and he has a gift when it comes to training them, so I sold the plane and bought horses for him. When he is out of the house and on his own, I will buy another airplane, but for now its his turn. And if you want to know which is more expensive to own, its the horses.

 

[bluee]

Thank you for posting. This is EXACTLY what I'm wondering might be an alternative approach to "waiting and supporting".

I certainly don't want to be the "do it!" kind of parent. On the other hand, some kids need a nudge, and I don't want her to end up kicking herself, for possibly the rest of her life, because I didn't nudge her.

Being a parent is not easy.

I'd say definitely nudge. I would have benefited from a nudge and more encouragement.

But two years ago I met a teenage girl whose father made her learn to fly, and apparently dictated her life. She failed the checkride twice, and I always wondered if failing was an intentional way to get back at her father.

 

[Missa]

I'd say definitely nudge. I would have benefited from a nudge and more encouragement.

But two years ago I met a teenage girl whose father made her learn to fly, and apparently dictated her life. She failed the checkride twice, and I always wondered if failing was an intentional way to get back at her father.

I'd say there is nothing wrong with a nudge, but don't push. (A difficult line to walk)

Having a discussion as to why, then laying out what you are willing pay for now and if it will be her responsibility later is a good idea (but it sounds like you already had this discussion with her, repeating the discussion too many times gets into pushing)

Seeing that she is and always will be a frequent passenger it would not be unwise to find a middle ground during the discussion that would get her take a few lessons. You said she flew up to the landing, does she know how to make a "good" landing? If not request her to take at least enough training that she feels comfortable landing the plane on her own if she ever had to.

Even if she does that training in the right seat it may be enough to get her bit by the flying bug, and if it doesn't you really know you have done all you can. You have also given her enough tools to save her butt and the pilot's she is flying with should anything bad happen.

(Remember a good landing is one you can walk away from, a great landing is one you can reuse the airplane. Any frequent passenger should be confident and know enough to call for help and make a good landing on their own should the pilot become unresponsive.)
Missa

 

[Matthew]

I dunno, maybe she'd be satisfied with a good, thorough, pinch-hitter course. Sounds like she may already be there and that's good enough for her, for now.

 

[EdFred]

Don't worry about it, stripping pays more than a right seat at the regionals.

 

[Henning]

Don't worry about it, stripping pays more than a right seat at the regionals.

Way more.... I always tell girls, "God gave you a natural advantage over men, use it for everything it's worth.... Don't be spittin' in the eye of God and wasting his gifts." Also to the girls, it is a fallacy that you have to be "hot" to be a stripper. This is not so lol... Strippers come in all shapes and sizes...

 

[bluee]

You sound like the sexist *******s I was referring to.

If I'm wasting God's gifts, then maybe he shouldn't have given me a brain too.

 

[SCCutler]

If I'm wasting God's gifts, then maybe he shouldn't have given me a brain too.

My guess is, if you're using the brain to good effect, all that other stuff is irrelevant.

Or (to put it another way), success is the best revenge.

 

[EdFred]

You sound like the sexist *******s I was referring to.

If I'm wasting God's gifts, then maybe he shouldn't have given me a brain too.

It's a joke son. I said it's a joke, son.

But if never going to a strip club, or never having a private stripper at any party I've ever been to makes me a sexist *******, so be it.

 

[dmccormack]

Sometimes you just gotta accept that not everybody feels the same passion for aviation as we do.

This.

 

[bluee]

It's a joke son. I said it's a joke, son.

But if never going to a strip club, or never having a private stripper at any party I've ever been to makes me a sexist *******, so be it.

Well gee, I guess that's only funny if you're male. It is not funny if that attitude is a constant occurrence in everything aviation related. I get so sick of the **** that sexist pilots dish out, like the old geezer who treated me like a hooker. Some pilots suck.

 

[steingar]

Well gee, I guess that's only funny if you're male. It is not funny if that attitude is a constant occurrence in everything aviation related. I get so sick of the **** that sexist pilots dish out, like the old geezer who treated me like a hooker. Some pilots suck.

Take it easy. Never met Henning, but Ed's one of the good guys. We're all 14 year old boys at heart, if we weren't we wouldn't be flying.

Actually, I couldn't blame jay for getting a bit out of whack. It is his daughter about whom most of this discussion is revolving around.

 

[Everskyward]

I'd say there is nothing wrong with a nudge, but don't push. (A difficult line to walk)

Yeah but it seems to me that she's already been nudged. People's taste in activities can change as they age but I would say that by 17 someone would have a good idea of the activities she wanted to participate in at that point of her life. Jay should be happy that she had the courage to be honest with him and not just go along to please him. After all, it's not like flying is a necessary part of life.

 

[EdFred]

Well gee, I guess that's only funny if you're male. It is not funny if that attitude is a constant occurrence in everything aviation related. I get so sick of the **** that sexist pilots dish out, like the old geezer who treated me like a hooker. Some pilots suck.

I would have said the same thing if it was Jay's son we were talking about. I am an EOO.

 

[jason]

Yeah but it seems to me that she's already been nudged. People's taste in activities can change as they age but I would say that by 17 someone would have a good idea of the activities she wanted to participate in at that point of her life. Jay should be happy that she had the courage to be honest with him and not just go along to please him. After all, it's not like flying is a necessary part of life.

 

[TMetzinger]

Well gee, I guess that's only funny if you're male. It is not funny if that attitude is a constant occurrence in everything aviation related. I get so sick of the **** that sexist pilots dish out, like the old geezer who treated me like a hooker. Some pilots suck.

I think I'd need to hear your definition of "sexist" to see if I qualify. Only an idiot ignores the fact that there are differences between the sexes. Not better/worse but different.

Nothing wrong with dancing, ballet or exotic, provided you're not enslaved.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[bluee]

like the old geezer who treated me like a hooker
or the lineman asking my non-pilot husband (only along for the ride) about my training assuming he was a cfi, or the owner of the FBO calling me "little lady". Or male pilots making negative comments about me and what I'm doing or how well I'm doing it. Or the lineman trying to rip me off because he thinks I'm too dumb to count. That kind of crap. Almost forgot the first cfi I met who blatantly told me I can't fly because girls dont do that. I was 17.

 

[Bob Noel]

I think I'd need to hear your definition of "sexist" to see if I qualify. Only an idiot ignores the fact that there are differences between the sexes. Not better/worse but different.

Nothing wrong with dancing, ballet or exotic, provided you're not enslaved.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

(replying in general to the subthread about the offensive sexist posts earlier)

Ya know, some things can lose their humor or even become offensive depending on your own experiences. For example, jokes about someone being able to hide their own easter eggs completely lost any actual humor once my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, even more so after she died of Alzheimer's.

 

[Everskyward]

like the old geezer who treated me like a hooker

Totally inappropriate but just think, he was a pathetic old man whose opinion doesn't count for anything.

or the lineman asking my non-pilot husband (only along for the ride) about my training assuming he was a cfi, or the owner of the FBO calling me "little lady". Or male pilots making negative comments about me and what I'm doing or how well I'm doing it. Or the lineman trying to rip me off because he thinks I'm too dumb to count. That kind of crap. Almost forgot the first cfi I met who blatantly told me I can't fly because girls dont do that. I was 17.

These kinds of comment used to annoy me more than upset me when I was younger but now I just laugh at them.

 

[steingar]

The pilot population is old and grey, and many were from a time when the attitudes in question were normal and accepted. They'd be labeling a lot of this "they're so sexist" talk a bunch of damn PC, just like the folks on this board complain about.

 

[Rob Schaffer]

It has to be her interest, not your interest.

I've learned that with my wife. She cares very little about flying. She just doesn't care to do it. I don't think she's been in a plane with me in over 2 years. She just has no desire to do it.

I have 2 - 11 month old daughters and I hope they will want to fly, but if they don't, they don't.

It's my passion, not theirs and I can't force it on them.

Nearly the same here. 2 years ago today I took my wife and kids all together in the C172 for a nice lunch flight. Unfortunately, she got sick on the way back and has no interest in getting back in the plane with me anymore and reminds me how expensive it is for just me to do.... so I take the kids when I can. I have two nearly 7 yr old twins, Allison loves to fly and be my co-pilot. She'll hold the sectional, go for breakfast/lunch runs, etc. I even took her to Windwood last year with Gary M in the Sundowner, and she had a good time. Bella, her sister, goes with me occasionally but just falls asleep and isn't excited about what we saw or flew over like Ally is.

I hope I can get back into it and just take Ally regularly to share the experience with while she is still interested and hopefully that interest will grow over time.

 

[dell30rb]

like the old geezer who treated me like a hooker
or the lineman asking my non-pilot husband (only along for the ride) about my training assuming he was a cfi, or the owner of the FBO calling me "little lady". Or male pilots making negative comments about me and what I'm doing or how well I'm doing it. Or the lineman trying to rip me off because he thinks I'm too dumb to count. That kind of crap. Almost forgot the first cfi I met who blatantly told me I can't fly because girls dont do that. I was 17.

Simmer down now! Not everyone is out to get you. Certainly not Ed and Henning.

I think its despicable to try and rip anyone off. If someone tells you girls can't fly, well he is an idiot, there are lots of girls that fly. But there is a difference between ripping someone off and making a joke.

"or the lineman asking my non-pilot husband (only along for the ride) about my training assuming he was a cfi"

Do you really think that was meant to be offensive or just an honest mistake? The reality is that the majority of pilots are men. I'd be liable to make the same mistake. That said i'm definitely not a sexist, i'd encourage any girl who was interested in flying to pursue her license. I think if you look around here you'll find that most everyone shares this mentality.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Take it easy. Never met Henning, but Ed's one of the good guys. We're all 14 year old boys at heart, if we weren't we wouldn't be flying.

Actually, I couldn't blame jay for getting a bit out of whack. It is his daughter about whom most of this discussion is revolving around.

I just thought it was a stupid joke. I don't take offense to these sorts of things.

Mary, on the other hand (as you now know after meeting her at OSH) would kick your ass.

 

[JoeSelch]

Simmer down now!

Right.
You can't possibly recognize an offensive remark when you hear one. We boys are just being boys -cuz that's these way we all are - and you're wrong to feel upset or any other way that you might feel. Remember, we know what we mean and how you should interpret our actions. So, suck it up. :-/

 

[Tom-D]

Right.
You can't possibly recognize an offensive remark when you hear one. We boys are just being boys -cuz that's these way we all are - and you're wrong to feel upset or any other way that you might feel. Remember, we know what we mean and how you should interpret our actions. So, suck it up. :-/

I really don't give a rat's patute if some body thinks I'm an ass when I say " good morning young lady how are you"

If that is offensive to you, go away, and leave me alone.

 

[RotorAndWing]

If that is offensive to you, go away, and leave me alone.

YOU DAMN KIDS!!!! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

 

[Tom-D]

YOU DAMN KIDS!!!! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

There ya go, gitten the idea....OBTW you having a bad day?

 

[kimberlyanne546]

like the old geezer who treated me like a hooker
or the lineman asking my non-pilot husband (only along for the ride) about my training assuming he was a cfi, or the owner of the FBO calling me "little lady". Or male pilots making negative comments about me and what I'm doing or how well I'm doing it. Or the lineman trying to rip me off because he thinks I'm too dumb to count. That kind of crap. Almost forgot the first cfi I met who blatantly told me I can't fly because girls dont do that. I was 17.

I still cringe when I think of what you've been through. I wonder why more of these awful things haven't happened to me yet. However, you most likely have been flying longer than I have.

Only similar thing I can think of is this experience I had with a CFI - a person I hired for presolo landing practice at another airport in hopes to speed up my quest for solo sign off.

We went flying after work and as it got darker and darker I made a comment about how the controls were getting harder to see in his 172. He then told me "women can't see at night like men can, because men have more rods and cones in their eyes." I didn't know whether to laugh at him or punch him. I did neither, and don't fly with him anymore, but he was an older guy so I kind of just let it go. He also made choo choo noises every time he showed me how to turn the ailerons.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Way more.... I always tell girls, "God gave you a natural advantage over men, use it for everything it's worth.... Don't be spittin' in the eye of God and wasting his gifts." Also to the girls, it is a fallacy that you have to be "hot" to be a stripper. This is not so lol... Strippers come in all shapes and sizes...

And some girls don't take your advice.

 

[denverpilot]

He also made choo choo noises every time he showed me how to turn the ailerons.

I'm starting to think you have a ton of morons out there in California.

Oh wait, I already thought that...

No offense, of course... it's just a numbers thing. If you have ten times the population as here, you also have ten times the morons, on average.

The problem is, morons tend to congregate.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I'm starting to think you have a ton of morons out there in California.

Oh wait, I already thought that...

No offense, of course... it's just a numbers thing. If you have ten times the population as here, you also have ten times the morons, on average.

The problem is, morons tend to congregate.

Yes, and he had a different sound effect for the rudder pedals. I felt like he thought I was a two year old and he was my grandfather teaching me how to ride a tricycle. Sort of strange . . . and very creepy.

I told him I wasn't having "fun" anymore before I met him, when we talked on the phone about what I wanted to work on in my flying (frustrated, presolo student looking for help with the flare).

This lack of "fun" somehow translated into him thinking I would enjoy the upwind of my every pattern being turned into "I got the plane" and then him flying over some power plant or something trying to hit a thermal and take me over a "whoopty bump" - LOL. Soooooo funny....... and after many failed attempts he kept trying anyways........

 

[Tom-D]

My wife, Mary, and I (both pilots) have treated learning to fly exactly the same as learning to drive, when it came to our kids. When our son turned 17, he took flight lessons, and earned his private within 4 months. He flew into Oshkosh that same year, and is now 4th-year ROTC at the University of Iowa.

Our daughter is now 17, and we have had great difficulty finding proper flight instruction for her at our new home. CFIs are scarce here, and rental planes even scarcer -- but we've persisted, and have finally found a suitable instructor who is willing to fly to the island to give her lessons.

So, yesterday I let her fly us back from lunch. She did great, doing everything from taxiing, to departure, to climb, to navigating. She held course and altitude perfectly, for an hour, and then descended into downwind effortlessly -- where I took over.

After we landed, we discussed her situation. She has never shown a burning desire to fly, so we wanted to make sure that she wouldn't get half-way through her training and then quit -- so we asked her point blank: "Do you want to learn to fly?"

Her answer stunned me: "Not really."

Yikes. She went on to say that, although flying is fun, it's not a huge passion of hers, and she wouldn't spend the money, if it were up to her.

Well, it IS up to her, and I thanked her for her honesty. I also told her that this is a truly once-in-a-lifetime opportunity -- no one will EVER give her a pilot's license again -- and she responded that she knew that...

This is really bothering me. She has flown with us since birth, and is a natural. I have a sinking feeling that in 5, 10 or 20 years she will be kicking herself for not taking advantage of this opportunity -- but I don't want to press the issue. Flying is simply not something to take lightly, and I don't want her taking flight lessons because it's something her parents want her to do. She has to truly want to fly, or (IMHO) she could end up hurting herself or others.

But I also want to make sure this is really her logical decision, and not just some "spur of the moment" dumb teenage shoot-from-the-hip statement that she will truly regret later on. I don't know what to say to her, now. All I can see is a huge lost opportunity for her.

I know this is a common situation -- I've heard guys talk about it -- but I've never dealt with it, personally. What did you guys do, when you discovered that your kids were indifferent toward flying? Did any of them eventually come around?

Also, are any of you guys children of pilots, who were given a similar (lost) opportunity, and then later became pilots? What would you say to her today?

Thanks for any and all advice!

You could simply tell her that you really wish she would, and that you believe she will thank you later in life.

see what she says../

but I wouldn't force the PPL on her.

 

[silver-eagle]

Jay;
Nothing you can do. She is old enough to make her own choices and live with them even though you don't necessarily agree with them.
And speaking of old enough, what someone else thinks or says or writes can just be ignored. The only thing that should matter to you is what your family thinks of you. As to a lineman, CFI, or owner of a FBO thinks, F'm, and speak with your wallet. Not everybody is out to slam you but if you're feeling that way, ignore/avoid them.
Being PC means NEVER saying or doing something offensive. Well, don't count on it. Whenever there is more than one person involved, something is likely to be misinterpreted. In the case above, it might have been crass, you might have thought it cruel, but personally speaking, no malice was intended. It isn't "Good old boys", it's friends being friends. But I can understand. It's not like I haven't had issues like that with family or friends.

 

[steingar]

I just thought it was a stupid joke. I don't take offense to these sorts of things.

Mary, on the other hand (as you now know after meeting her at OSH) would kick your ass.

Yeah, for my own personal safety I gotta steer well clear of your woman.