What's "good moral character"?

in college if you passed out while the party was still going you got markered up pretty good with a sharpie. eventually we decided to switch to dry erase marker because you had a chance of washing it off. good moral character said if you passed out, you deserved to get abused, but not permanently.
 
The government barring a pilot from having an airline career because of personal behavior or attitudes that doesn’t alter his flying skill is immoral.
 
Wait, does Good Moral Character mean you've never been banned from POA?
 
eman1200 said:
in college if you passed out while the party was still going you got markered up pretty good with a sharpie. eventually we decided to switch to dry erase marker because you had a chance of washing it off. good moral character said if you passed out, you deserved to get abused, but not permanently.
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Sheesh.... we used actual female makeup. Hopefully they would wake up at sompoint without looking in the mirror.

Just a few years ago at a Christmas party we painted my father in laws toenails. We used my mother in laws polish. I believe my wife did the painting.
 
bobmrg said:
Only case I can recall is one in which a pilot mooned a passing airliner (on the ground, of course) and had his ATP revoked.

Bob
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Heard about that in ground school back in the early 90’s. No one was certain if that was fact or folklore.
 
ateamer said:
So if a pilot cheats on his wife, gambles or goes to strip clubs he should be kept from a 121 job?
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It he does so to the extent of a character flaw, then yes. And any other position of trust. Would you trust an alcoholic, gambling womanizing, adulterer with your money? Why would you trust him with your life?
 
I was reading a brochure from SPEBSQSA (the Society for the Preservation and Encouragement of Barber Shop Quartet Singing in America...subsuequently just renamed the "Barbershop Harmony Society) that said membership was open to all congenial gentlemen of good character. I pointed out that this let me out three ways.
 
ateamer said:
So if a pilot cheats on his wife, gambles or goes to strip clubs he should be kept from a 121 job?
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Yes, none of those things are his employers, or your, business anyways.
 
What's "good moral character"?

I guess as long as you are not mooning boy scouts..... you're good to go....!!!
 
The company which I used to work for had a requirement to interview for "company values" like honesty & integrity etc.

So what I did is I made sure to be somewhere lower down on the interview chain, and then I would ask the candidate the exact same question that the interviewer just before me asked (and would have given the answer if the candidate didn't know it).

And then I'll see whether the candidate mention anything about it...

It kind'a worked. Still was a stupid interview requirement though.
 
Lindberg said:
It he does so to the extent of a character flaw, then yes. And any other position of trust. Would you trust an alcoholic, gambling womanizing, adulterer with your money? Why would you trust him with your life?
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I’ve been through some bad places with guys who cheated and drank too much, and am alive because of them. Plenty of people do those things (not me, by the way) and manage to keep work and play separate.
 
Wait till they check your credit report, facebook, and youtube account for good moral character. smh. oh wait!
 
deonb said:
The company which I used to work for had a requirement to interview for "company values" like honesty & integrity etc.

So what I did is I made sure to be somewhere lower down on the interview chain, and then I would ask the candidate the exact same question that the interviewer just before me asked (and would have given the answer if the candidate didn't know it).

And then I'll see whether the candidate mention anything about it...

It kind'a worked. Still was a stupid interview requirement though.
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Was this a religious extremist run company or something?


D Ryan said:
Wait till they check your credit report, facebook, and youtube account for good moral character. smh. oh wait!
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Hence why I’m not really on Facebook, don’t have a YouTube, and since I’m not buying the company I don’t authorize any credit checks, not that they would see much history as I don’t buy things I can’t afford.
 
James331 said:
Was this a religious extremist run company or something?
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No, just a Fortune 500 that had a bit of a reputation of unethical behavior that they were trying to soften. Mostly a PR move.
 
deonb said:
The company which I used to work for had a requirement to interview for "company values" like honesty & integrity etc.
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An employer has far more latitude to determine who they want to employ than the FAA does in issuing certificates. As it should be. I agree with the post I made 10 years ago, that it's probably a catch-all phrase. Not sure that it would stand up in court. However, if a company found out that someone sued the FAA for that reason, they might find themselves unemployable.
 
It's like porn. You know it when you see it.





I thought for practical purposes in the FAA context it means 'no recent felony convictions'.
 
ateamer said:
So if a pilot cheats on his wife, gambles or goes to strip clubs he should be kept from a 121 job?
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Lindberg said:
It he does so to the extent of a character flaw, then yes. And any other position of trust. Would you trust an alcoholic, gambling womanizing, adulterer with your money? Why would you trust him with your life?
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Why waste time in a pilot job with those kinds of qualifications? Go right for the top!
 
Kritchlow said:
Sheesh.... we used actual female makeup. Hopefully they would wake up at sompoint without looking in the mirror.

Just a few years ago at a Christmas party we painted my father in laws toenails. We used my mother in laws polish. I believe my wife did the painting.
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Guy in ground had that happen to him. The class went out and got chet faced, he passed out. Out came the nail polish and they did his nails. May have got the lipstick treatment too I think. Next day in ground school he's sitting holding his head up with his hand, his nails available to all, including the instructor. He was a good sport about it.

Moral of the story, don't ever pass out around other pilots.
 
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ateamer said:
I’ve been through some bad places with guys who cheated and drank too much, and am alive because of them. Plenty of people do those things (not me, by the way) and manage to keep work and play separate.
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So, if a prisoner keeps his love-time in the shower and not during his work-time in the laundry, it's all ok? That would be a prisoner with good moral character, right?
 
ateamer said:
The government barring a pilot from having an airline career because of personal behavior or attitudes that doesn’t alter his flying skill is immoral.
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Who makes sure the government has good moral character? LOL.

flyingron said:
I was reading a brochure from SPEBSQSA (the Society for the Preservation and Encouragement of Barber Shop Quartet Singing in America...subsuequently just renamed the "Barbershop Harmony Society) that said membership was open to all congenial gentlemen of good character. I pointed out that this let me out three ways.
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I know of a DA who was a member who screwed everything in sight while he was married. That organization wouldn’t have the cojones to toss anyone under their own charter rules.

I think I’ve met three people in my whole life who had “good moral character”, so much so that nobody would ever argue the point. They’re boring as hell, but someone has to be the standard, I guess. I doubt their brains didn’t hold the usual dark crap everyone else’s does.

Before you get too excited, none of them frequent PoA. :)
 
SkyDog58 said:
The catch is that what constitutes either good or bad moral character is highly subjective. Besides obvious things such as murder, rape, or theft many things one person would consider immoral, another would consider perfectly acceptable. If one of those subjective behaviors were to cause an overzealous ASI to pursue revocation and FAA legal didn't shut it down then the admin law judge most likely would. It would most likely take an actual violation of a law that is based on societal norms to invoke that reg.
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I think this is closest to reality. . .it's what the FAA says it is, until a Federal judge tells them they are full of it. The "mooner" needed money for a better lawyer.
 
Do you do the right thing even if no one is looking? Even if it’s not going to get you any points with anyone? That’s good moral character. Do you do something the “right” way even if it’s harder than another adequate way, because it’s the right thing to do? Do you inconvenience yourself to make things easier for someone else, whether it’s work related or not? Putting others on an equal footing as yourself is hard sometimes. Life is bigger than all of us. That’s good moral character.
 
Lachlan said:
So, if a prisoner keeps his love-time in the shower and not during his work-time in the laundry, it's all ok? That would be a prisoner with good moral character, right?
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Lol...I was on the street going after the guys who became prisoners. What they did after the intake room door closed was their business.
 
Lachlan said:
Do you do the right thing even if no one is looking? Even if it’s not going to get you any points with anyone? That’s good moral character. Do you do something the “right” way even if it’s harder than another adequate way, because it’s the right thing to do? Do you inconvenience yourself to make things easier for someone else, whether it’s work related or not? Putting others on an equal footing as yourself is hard sometimes. Life is bigger than all of us. That’s good moral character.
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So not taking the shopping cart back to the corral (but leaving it in the parking lot instead) is an indicator of bad moral character?
 
wsuffa said:
So not taking the shopping cart back to the corral (but leaving it in the parking lot instead) is an indicator of bad moral character?
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Except at Aldi's where you are doing a favor for some poor fool who forgot their quarter.
 
eman1200 said:
in college if you passed out while the party was still going you got markered up pretty good with a sharpie. eventually we decided to switch to dry erase marker because you had a chance of washing it off. good moral character said if you passed out, you deserved to get abused, but not permanently.
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So you have been to a Wings FlyBQ!!
 
FAA says ATPs aren't going to hell, and they've got the list. Noted. :)
 
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