What would you do?

Lndwarrior

Lndwarrior

Cleared for Takeoff
Joined
Jan 15, 2009
Messages
1,284
Display Name
Display name:
Gary
Today, July 4th, I watched a pilot did a semi - organized flight at our vacation lake. The lake is semi - private but a large crowd shows up for the 4th.

Part our the scheduled events include a sea plane landing for the crowd to watch. It's an annual part of the celebration.

I cringed as I watched this pilot twice fly at 200 feet the length of the swim area and directly over literally hundreds of children's and parents heads. If that wasn't enough he then flew directly at the beach, also at 200 feet right over top of hundreds more sitting on the beach.

I couldn't help but recall the idiot at the Santa Monica pier - and the Italian Tri-Colore disaster a few years ago.

While the crowd was cheering all I could think of was how stupid this was. There was absolutely no reason to put kid's at risk the way he did.

There's a part of me that wants to report the a___h __e to the FAA to ensure he never does it again.

What would you do?

And for those who want to question my "perception" - I was standing right on the waters edge when this happened and he was definitely no higher than 200 feet and he was definitely right over many, many people's heads.

As a minimum I will be writing a complaint to the home owners association so they, at least, understand the legalities of what they are encouraging.
 
Guess you had to be there. We had 5 planes in formation fly over at 200 feet, it was a missing man formation at a funeral.
 
Because no airplane ever flew low over a crowd of people while taking off or landing, anywhere else on earth.
Oh wait, I do it every time I fly. As does every other plane that takes off on rwy 8.
Directly over the parking lot, athletic field and school buildings where 600+ kids are standing around. Somewhere between 100 and 200 feet, agl. Depending on density altitude and the performance of my plane.

This sounds more like a "how dare they invade my private space", then a hazard to the public, complaint.
 
Did you buy that time machine at Costco?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
The only real issue is if the pilot had trained/briefed for it, preferably has some sort of training for it (acro, formation, something).
Otherwise, it is stupid, and may be illegal.

Tim
 
Shepherd said:
Because no airplane ever flew low over a crowd of people while taking off or landing, anywhere else on earth.
Oh wait, I do it every time I fly. As does every other plane that takes off on rwy 8.
Directly over the parking lot, athletic field and school buildings where 600+ kids are standing around. Somewhere between 100 and 200 feet, agl. Depending on density altitude and the performance of my plane.

This sounds more like a "how dare they invade my private space", then a hazard to the public, complaint.
Click to expand...

Sorry, no. "Except as necessary for takeoff or landing" has you covered. The post by lndwarrior describes a low-level, low risk airshow, but clearly against the regs. I personally don't object to this (but the lake association's insurance agent might feel differently if he knew the regs).

-Skip
 
Lndwarrior said:
Today, July 4th, I watched a pilot did a semi - organized flight at our vacation lake. The lake is semi - private but a large crowd shows up for the 4th.

Part our the scheduled events include a sea plane landing for the crowd to watch. It's an annual part of the celebration.

I cringed as I watched this pilot twice fly at 200 feet the length of the swim area and directly over literally hundreds of children's and parents heads. If that wasn't enough he then flew directly at the beach, also at 200 feet right over top of hundreds more sitting on the beach.

I couldn't help but recall the idiot at the Santa Monica pier - and the Italian Tri-Colore disaster a few years ago.

While the crowd was cheering all I could think of was how stupid this was. There was absolutely no reason to put kid's at risk the way he did.

There's a part of me that wants to report the a___h __e to the FAA to ensure he never does it again.

What would you do?

And for those who want to question my "perception" - I was standing right on the waters edge when this happened and he was definitely no higher than 200 feet and he was definitely right over many, many people's heads.

As a minimum I will be writing a complaint to the home owners association so they, at least, understand the legalities of what they are encouraging.
Click to expand...

Today, July 2, .......
 
tspear said:
The only real issue is if the pilot had trained/briefed for it, preferably has some sort of training for it (acro, formation, something).
Otherwise, it is stupid, and may be illegal.

Tim
Click to expand...

Huh? What does acro or formation training have to do with flying low? Most likely the seaplane pilot was flying low over the beach and swimming area on his way to a water landing.

If he was just buzzing the crowd then the OP should call the FSDO , not the HOA. Neither acro or formation flying is a waiver from the regs.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Today, July 2, .......
Click to expand...

Yes, today is 2 July. But the OP was made at 1254 am, which means that "today, July 4th" was actually "today, July 1st" unless it was a late night event. He didn't mention fireworks . . .
 
Lndwarrior said:
Today, July 4th, I watched a pilot did a semi - organized flight at our vacation lake. The lake is semi - private but a large crowd shows up for the 4th.

Part our the scheduled events include a sea plane landing for the crowd to watch. It's an annual part of the celebration.

I cringed as I watched this pilot twice fly at 200 feet the length of the swim area and directly over literally hundreds of children's and parents heads. If that wasn't enough he then flew directly at the beach, also at 200 feet right over top of hundreds more sitting on the beach.

I couldn't help but recall the idiot at the Santa Monica pier - and the Italian Tri-Colore disaster a few years ago.

While the crowd was cheering all I could think of was how stupid this was. There was absolutely no reason to put kid's at risk the way he did.

There's a part of me that wants to report the a___h __e to the FAA to ensure he never does it again.

What would you do?

And for those who want to question my "perception" - I was standing right on the waters edge when this happened and he was definitely no higher than 200 feet and he was definitely right over many, many people's heads.

As a minimum I will be writing a complaint to the home owners association so they, at least, understand the legalities of what they are encouraging.
Click to expand...

If this event was a single landing and takeoff, I do not believe the pilot violated the regulations. The FAA may see it differently because this was a publicized event and they might consider it an airshow.
 
Last edited:
I would speak to the pilot. If the pilot recognizes his poor decision making, there is probably no reason to call the FAA. IMO, the goal is to change behavior, not to violate someone.
 
If I was so concerned, I would have loaded up the wife and kids and left the area until the plane landed or was gone.

When I am working in the bush I will fly over landing strips at whatever altitude I need to look over the landing area. None of the villagers ever complained. And if the engine had suddenly stopped out of landing strip range, there was no place to land except the village.

I was not there so I cannot accurately judge the situation, but I would have been more concerned if the pilot landed straight in instead of checking the landing area.
 
Last edited:
If you thought it a bad thing, then you probably shouldn't do it. Not having seen it, or having a clear idea of the geometry, hard to have an opinion. . .but, airplanes don't immediatley drop vertically after an engine failure. Assuming a 10:1 glide ratio, and you are correct about the 200 feet, then he was about 2,000 feet from touching down if the mill quit. Maybe he was clearing the space where he intended to touch down?

I wasn't there, but my intuition is you're getting your knickers in a knot over something that may have been much less of a risk than you perceive.
 
The number of ninnies who think low flying aircraft are some sort of additional hazard, worthy of their self-important reports to their Comrades at the State, is high on PoA today.
 
Without video, it might be hard to convince the FAA to get involved.
 
kyleb said:
I would speak to the pilot. If the pilot recognizes his poor decision making, there is probably no reason to call the FAA. IMO, the goal is to change behavior, not to violate someone.
Click to expand...

Yeah... that conversation will turn out fine.

:rolleyes:
 
SkyDog58 said:
For some odd reason, the town that I live in had their show this past Thursday.
Click to expand...

Fireworks shows are cheaper on other days besides the 4th. And really cheeper a few days after the 4th.

Maybe something happened with the original fireworks people and the town had to find another company?
 
kyleb said:
I would speak to the pilot. If the pilot recognizes his poor decision making, there is probably no reason to call the FAA. IMO, the goal is to change behavior, not to violate someone.
Click to expand...

Since the title is as what would I do, this is pretty much it if possible. Either in person or be letter, possibly even anouyoumous letter. I would point out that performing at a public event like this could easily draw scrutiny from the FAA, at that it appeared to be in violation of at least one FAR to at least one person at the event. Would take much to imagine an FAA inspector attending the event. Or simply one of the spectators posting a YouTube video that might draw the FAA's attention.

Brian
 
Meh....just post the video online...and let em handle it from there. :D
 
donjohnston said:
Yeah... that conversation will turn out fine.

:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I've had that kind of conversation a couple of times over the years. The first time it was with a "Fat ultralight" guy who entered the downwind on the 135, and caused me to take some serious evasive action. Older guy, fell back into the "I've been flying since Orville and Wilbur" defense, instead of saying "Sorry, I screwed up." He eventually died in an airplane crash.

Another guy was doing acro with Young Eagles aboard. No brief, no chutes, nada. I pointed out that, while some of the kids were probably having fun, it wasn't the brightest idea, and Oh, by the way, had he mentioned it to the parents before the flights? That guy also used to do these really awesome zoom climbs on takeoff, nearly vertical until he was about out of airspeed, then he'd nose over and continue the flight. I asked what would happen if the engine burped at 90 knots and 500' in a vertical climb. In both cases, the pilot took the feedback as well-intentioned and toned down his antics.

So, it comes down to how you approach "the guy" and to his personality too. Some people are hard to help. They often have bad outcomes.
 
I read he was supposed to land, and there were a lit of people around, including hose in a swimming area.

Is it possible the low passes were to verify the landing area was clear so he doesn't hit anyone as he landed?
 
SkyDog58 said:
Huh? What does acro or formation training have to do with flying low? Most likely the seaplane pilot was flying low over the beach and swimming area on his way to a water landing.

If he was just buzzing the crowd then the OP should call the FSDO , not the HOA. Neither acro or formation flying is a waiver from the regs.
Click to expand...

Acro and Formation flying will often include low level work, hence the training for a "buzz".

Tim
 
tspear said:
Acro and Formation flying will often include low level work, hence the training for a "buzz".

Tim
Click to expand...

Lol. Normal flying includes low level work. How else do you takeoff and land? Except for your top airshow performers, very little acro or formation flying is low level.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Lol. Normal flying includes low level work. How else do you takeoff and land? Except for your top airshow performers, very little acro or formation flying is low level.
Click to expand...

For take and landing, you generally are in pattern, or your are on approach. In such situations, we have training and briefing on what to do in case of emergency. This is a normal part of training. Flying level at 500ft (just picking an altitude) is no where included.
The formation clinic syllabus I reviewed before planning to attend included takeoff and flying in formation, form up at pattern level, arriving together in pattern level. What to do in case of all sorts of emergencies, if the lead loses power, if a wingman loses site....
The acro courses and discussions I have had with a few acro instructors all go beyond the basic unusual attitudes. These skills are very transferable and required as the foundations for the performances you mention. The rreality is the skills take hours of practice to slowly lower the floor to the ground for an actual performance. However, the briefing, review, emergency techniques.... are the same regardless of a 6K floor, or a ground level floor.

You will notice, I said these two types of work teach the briefings and other factors use to buzz someone. I never said they teach all the required skills.

Tim
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top