What would the repercussions be?

EdFred

EdFred

Taxi to Parking
Joined
Feb 25, 2005
Messages
30,651
Location
Michigan
Display Name
Display name:
White Chocolate
I was reading an article on 10 ways to get out a a speeding ticket. Well, it reall wasn't a way to get out of one, more like a way to avoid getting pulled over. Well, I had an idea. Why not reverse traffic spotting? That's right. Contract with people to provide a lookout and fly ahead of them while they get to haul butt on the interstates. Let em monitor a frequency (probably on the CB channels). Sure it would take some coordination, and you'd probably have to get a decent size group of cars and trucks together, before you could turn a profit. Or perhaps need 2 planes to run a cycle over a certain stretch of road to make sure it's clear.

Granted, unmarked cop cars would still be a pain to pick out, but pretty easy to see the ones decked out in christmas tree lights from 500'.

I wonder if there would be any money to be made in this.
 
Interesting question.

I wonder if Adam or one of our other legal eagles would comment on whether it would be legal to charge money to help someone break the law?

Seems to me that this calls for a helicopter, though...
 
This would make an excellent premise for a movie.

Strictly for hauling untaxed beer, of course. :D
 
RotaryWingBob said:
Interesting question.

I wonder if Adam or one of our other legal eagles would comment on whether it would be legal to charge money to help someone break the law?

Seems to me that this calls for a helicopter, though...
Click to expand...

With speeding, it's only breaking the law if you get caught. There's nothing tangible about it. Yeah, but a helicopter would burn that much more expensive to operate, making it harder to turn a profit.
 
Maxmosbey said:
Conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor is a felony.
Click to expand...

They announce DUI checkpoints on the news, why not just announce locations of other cops? IIRC, to catch speeders, the police have to be in plain sight anyways. This might vary state-state.
 
Just drive at normal speeds until Jesse or some other kid flys by in a car/on a cycle. Let them get about 1/2 - 3/4 mile ahead and match their speed. Watch for their brake lights.

Note this does not help if the police are using aircraft or a situation where the police intercept is down the road a bit from the speed measuring zone. But IMO that is pretty rare.

-Skip
 
AirBaker said:
They announce DUI checkpoints on the news, why not just announce locations of other cops? IIRC, to catch speeders, the police have to be in plain sight anyways. This might vary state-state.
Click to expand...

Well, I just made that up, anyway.
 
Maxmosbey said:
Conspiracy to commit a misdemeanor is a felony.
Click to expand...

Speeding isn't a misdemeanor. Reckless driving might be. But could they really get you on reckless driving if you told them you had someone in an airplane spotting traffic for you up ahead?
 
EdFred said:
Speeding isn't a misdemeanor. Reckless driving might be. But could they really get you on reckless driving if you told them you had someone in an airplane spotting traffic for you up ahead?
Click to expand...

Really, if someone wanted to get there that fast, why not just pay to ride IN the plane, and thumb your nose at the troopers as you go?
 
Bill Jennings said:
Really, if someone wanted to get there that fast, why not just pay to ride IN the plane, and thumb your nose at the troopers as you go?
Click to expand...

Truckers. Kinda hard to haul 40,000lbs in a Cherokee.
 
That would be way too much effort with still way too big of a chance of someone getting hurt or arrested.

If you want to go fast and public roads are all you have. You just need two people and some radios. Find a stretch of highway that has no intersections and no traffic. Place one guy where you are starting and the next guy several miles down the road.

This way you will know the road is free of traffic, potential traffic, and police. Go as fast as you want. It works well and is somewhat halfway responsible. The only person you'll hurt is yourself.
 
This could be an awesome idea, if you could find a way to keep track of all the police officers locations simultaneously, and display it on a moving map or something. Then sell subscriptions to it.

Speeding is a ridiculous crime anyways.
 
I don't see this as being any different than having a radar detector, so long as the observers themselves are not breaking any laws (e.g. speeding.)
 
Without having read the thread, I hope someone brought up the MORAL implications. Plus the conspiracy to break the law - depending on how fast, the more serious the law. It wouldn't surprise me if they came down harder on the pilot than the speeder. It would seem appropriate.

EdFred said:
I was reading an article on 10 ways to get out a a speeding ticket. Well, it reall wasn't a way to get out of one, more like a way to avoid getting pulled over. Well, I had an idea. Why not reverse traffic spotting? That's right. Contract with people to provide a lookout and fly ahead of them while they get to haul butt on the interstates. Let em monitor a frequency (probably on the CB channels). Sure it would take some coordination, and you'd probably have to get a decent size group of cars and trucks together, before you could turn a profit. Or perhaps need 2 planes to run a cycle over a certain stretch of road to make sure it's clear.

Granted, unmarked cop cars would still be a pain to pick out, but pretty easy to see the ones decked out in christmas tree lights from 500'.

I wonder if there would be any money to be made in this.
Click to expand...
 
alaskaflyer said:
I don't see this as being any different than having a radar detector, so long as the observers themselves are not breaking any laws (e.g. speeding.)
Click to expand...

Well, I doubt I would be doing >250kts. :)
 
alaskaflyer said:
I don't see this as being any different than having a radar detector, so long as the observers themselves are not breaking any laws (e.g. speeding.)
Click to expand...

But in some states radar detectors are illegal.... I think it would be a tough product to sell unless you were limiting it to a specific corridor like Hwy 90 in Louisiana where you have a lot of truck traffic and a propensity for speed traps, and even on that short of a route, you'd need several aircraft for effective coverage.
 
etsisk said:
Without having read the thread, I hope someone brought up the MORAL implications. Plus the conspiracy to break the law - depending on how fast, the more serious the law.
Click to expand...

And what of the morality of radar detector manufacturers? They make devices to enable lawlessness. (if that is a word)
 
So, as the organizer, would you have any liability when one of your speeding customers kills someone, or themselves? Something to think about.
 
EdFred said:
Speeding isn't a misdemeanor. Reckless driving might be. But could they really get you on reckless driving if you told them you had someone in an airplane spotting traffic for you up ahead?
Click to expand...

I believe that traffic violations are considered misdemeanors.
 
Actually, most aren't, they are "infractions" which in most jurisdictions are non-criminal in nature and can only result in fines and administrative sanctions to your license, not imprisonment. But that isn't true everywhere, in the federal system infractions can still result in jail time.

Reckless driving, driving on a suspended or revoked license, DUI and such are still misdemeanors in most places.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Actually, most aren't, they are "infractions" which in most jurisdictions are non-criminal in nature and can only result in fines and administrative sanctions to your license, not imprisonment. But that isn't true everywhere, in the federal system infractions can still result in jail time.

Reckless driving, driving on a suspended or revoked license, DUI and such are still misdemeanors in most places.
Click to expand...

321.482 of the Iowa Code.

If you look at Alaska AS28.40.050 it says that a violation of the traffic code is a simple misdemeanor. You will see a subsection that deals with infractions. Many states allow municipalities to issue municipal infractions instead of a code violation, but State Law generally regards a traffic violation as a misdemeanor. Iowa has the same deal. Municipal law enforcement officers have the option of filing either.
 
Last edited:
In Michigan it is just a civil infraction. If it was a misdemeanor there would be a hell of a lot of people inelgible for a CCW.
 
Captain, I present to you the Red Ocober... oops, wrong post.... okay, here's the Jawjuh code on the issue. Note paragraph (a):

O.C.G.A. § 40-6-1
GEORGIA CODE
Copyright 2007 by The State of Georgia
All rights reserved.
*** Current through the 2007 Regular Session ***
TITLE 40. MOTOR VEHICLES AND TRAFFIC
CHAPTER 6. UNIFORM RULES OF THE ROAD
ARTICLE 1. GENERAL PROVISIONS
O.C.G.A. § 40-6-1 (2007)

§ 40-6-1. Observance of chapter required; punishment for violations generally; maximum fines for certain offenses

(a) It is unlawful and, unless otherwise declared in this chapter with respect to particular offenses, it is a misdemeanor for any person to do any act forbidden or fail to perform any act required in this chapter.

(b) Unless a different maximum fine or greater minimum fine is specifically provided in this chapter for a particular violation, the maximum fine which may be imposed as punishment for a first offense of violating any lawful speed limit established by or pursuant to the provisions of Article 9 of this chapter by exceeding a maximum lawful speed limit:

(1) By five miles per hour or less shall be no dollars;

(2) By more than five but not more than ten miles per hour shall not exceed $25.00;

(3) By more than ten but not more than 14 miles per hour shall not exceed $100.00;

(4) By more than 14 but less than 19 miles per hour shall not exceed $125.00;

(5) By 19 or more but less than 24 miles per hour shall not exceed $150.00; or

(6) By 24 or more but less than 34 miles per hour shall not exceed $500.00.

O.C.G.A. § 40-6-1
Click to expand...
Seeing how the feds are accomodating in some ways, here's a nice short guide to the Jawjuh traffic laws:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/enforce/speedlaws501/toc/gaspeed.pdf
 
EdFred said:
In Michigan it is just a civil infraction. If it was a misdemeanor there would be a hell of a lot of people inelgible for a CCW.
Click to expand...

It has been that way since 1949


MICHIGAN VEHICLE CODE (EXCERPT)
Act 300 of 1949

257.901 Violation as misdemeanor; penalty.
Sec. 901.
(1) It is a misdemeanor for a person to violate this act, unless that violation is by this act or other law of this state declared to be a felony or a civil infraction.
(2) Unless another penalty is provided in this act or by the laws of this state, a person convicted of a misdemeanor for the violation of this act shall be punished by a fine of not more than $100.00, or by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or both.



 
Last edited:
I'm new here, and I don't want to stir the pot, so I'm not going to respond to this issue any more, it isn't that big of a deal to me. I have a some experience in this area, that spanned some twenty-nine years. If anyone really cares, I'll give a little history of what I know about it, but otherwise, I'm more than willing just to talk airplanes and flying from here out. I left all that other stuff behind some time ago. Thanks
 
2) Unless another penalty is provided in this act or by the laws of this state, a person convicted of a misdemeanor for the violation of this act shall be punished by a fine of not more than $100.00, or by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or both.

I've gotten traffic violations, I even have the ticket that says civil infraction on it.

257.629 Prima facie speed limits; establishment; limitations; signs; civil infraction; “local authority” defined.
Sec. 629.
(1) Local authorities may establish or increase the prima facie speed limits on highways under their jurisdiction subject to the following limitations:
(a) A highway within a business district on which the prima facie speed limit is increased shall be designated a through highway at the entrance to which vehicles shall be required to stop before entering, except that where 2 of these through highways intersect, local authorities may require traffic on only 1 highway to stop before entering the intersection.
(b) The local authorities shall place and maintain, upon all through highways in which the permissible speed is increased, adequate signs giving notice of the special regulations and shall also place and maintain upon each highway intersecting a through highway, appropriate signs which shall be reflectorized or illuminated at night.
(c) Local authorities may establish prima facie lawful speed limits on highways outside of business districts that are consistent with the limits established in section 627(2).
(2) The state transportation department shall establish the speed upon all trunk line highways located within cities and villages as follows:
(a) A written copy of the authorization or determination shall be filed in the office of the county clerk of the county or counties where the highway is located and a certified copy of the authorization or determination shall be prima facie evidence in all courts of the issuance of the authorization or determination.
(b) When the state transportation department increases the speed upon a trunk line highway as provided in this act, subject to section 627a, the state transportation department shall place and maintain upon these highways adequate signs giving notice of the permissible speed fixed by the state transportation commission.
(3) Local authorities are authorized to decrease the prima facie speed limits to not less than 15 miles per hour in public parks under their jurisdiction. A decrease in the prima facie speed limits is binding when adequate signs are duly posted giving notice of the reduced speeds.
(4) Local authorities are authorized to decrease the prima facie speed limits to not less than 25 miles an hour on each street or highway under their jurisdiction that is adjacent to a publicly owned park or playground. A decrease in the prima facie speed limits is binding when adequate signs are duly posted giving notice of the reduced speeds. As used in this subsection, "local authority" includes the county road commission with the concurrence of the township board of a township for a street or highway within the boundaries of the township.
(5) The maximum rates of speed allowed under this section are subject to the maximum rate established under section 629b.
(6) A person who exceeds a lawful speed limit established under this section is responsible for a civil infraction.
(7) As used in this section, "local authority" means the governing body of a city or village, except as provided in subsection (4).
http://law.justia.com/michigan/codes/mcl-chap257/mcl-257-907.html
 
Last edited:
EdFred said:
I've gotten traffic violations, I even have the ticket that says civil infraction on it.

257.629 Prima facie speed limits; establishment; limitations; signs; civil infraction; “local authority” defined.
Sec. 629.
(1) Local authorities may establish or increase the prima facie speed limits on highways under their jurisdiction subject to the following limitations:
(a) A highway within a business district on which the prima facie speed limit is increased shall be designated a through highway at the entrance to which vehicles shall be required to stop before entering, except that where 2 of these through highways intersect, local authorities may require traffic on only 1 highway to stop before entering the intersection.
(b) The local authorities shall place and maintain, upon all through highways in which the permissible speed is increased, adequate signs giving notice of the special regulations and shall also place and maintain upon each highway intersecting a through highway, appropriate signs which shall be reflectorized or illuminated at night.
(c) Local authorities may establish prima facie lawful speed limits on highways outside of business districts that are consistent with the limits established in section 627(2).
(2) The state transportation department shall establish the speed upon all trunk line highways located within cities and villages as follows:
(a) A written copy of the authorization or determination shall be filed in the office of the county clerk of the county or counties where the highway is located and a certified copy of the authorization or determination shall be prima facie evidence in all courts of the issuance of the authorization or determination.
(b) When the state transportation department increases the speed upon a trunk line highway as provided in this act, subject to section 627a, the state transportation department shall place and maintain upon these highways adequate signs giving notice of the permissible speed fixed by the state transportation commission.
(3) Local authorities are authorized to decrease the prima facie speed limits to not less than 15 miles per hour in public parks under their jurisdiction. A decrease in the prima facie speed limits is binding when adequate signs are duly posted giving notice of the reduced speeds.
(4) Local authorities are authorized to decrease the prima facie speed limits to not less than 25 miles an hour on each street or highway under their jurisdiction that is adjacent to a publicly owned park or playground. A decrease in the prima facie speed limits is binding when adequate signs are duly posted giving notice of the reduced speeds. As used in this subsection, "local authority" includes the county road commission with the concurrence of the township board of a township for a street or highway within the boundaries of the township.
(5) The maximum rates of speed allowed under this section are subject to the maximum rate established under section 629b.
(6) A person who exceeds a lawful speed limit established under this section is responsible for a civil infraction.
(7) As used in this section, "local authority" means the governing body of a city or village, except as provided in subsection (4).
Click to expand...
Ed,
You provided your own answer. It is a civl infraction if the speed limit is imposed by a local authority. That us what this whole section applies to.

Chris

And what's wrong with cops anyway?
 
AirBaker said:
They announce DUI checkpoints on the news, why not just announce locations of other cops?
Click to expand...

They do this in Austin already. They announce on the radio and on TV every morning where the Austin traffic units will be working today. Doesn't seem to keep them from writing a boat load of tickets though.
 
Chris Connor said:
Ed,
You provided your own answer. It is a civl infraction if the speed limit is imposed by a local authority. That us what this whole section applies to.

Chris

And what's wrong with cops anyway?
Click to expand...


I actually found another section of code that says the same thing for all "non-local" areas. Baiscally, according to the code, speeding is only a CI in Michigan.
 
ausrere said:
They do this in Austin already. They announce on the radio and on TV every morning where the Austin traffic units will be working today. Doesn't seem to keep them from writing a boat load of tickets though.
Click to expand...
Maybe people should watch more TV and listen to the radio.

In Lincoln, NE the local FM station on 104.5 MHz sometimes tells of speed traps in the city. It surprised me, and helped their ratings a bit since I'll listen to this station more.
 
Well, it should not be too much of a surprise that speed traps are(or should be) publicised; the putative purpose of speed limit enforcement is the promotion of safety, right? And the LE community assures us that speed limit enforement is targeted at areas of known danger for speed-related accidents, so (one presumes) notification of speed traps equates to notice of dangerous road areas.

That's the theory, anyway.

But consider this: the vast majority of speed radar units are purchased not by the agenies which deploy them, but rather, by auto insuance underwriters.

Think about it.
 
SCCutler said:
Well, it should not be too much of a surprise that speed traps are(or should be) publicised; the putative purpose of speed limit enforcement is the promotion of safety, right? And the LE community assures us that speed limit enforement is targeted at areas of known danger for speed-related accidents, so (one presumes) notification of speed traps equates to notice of dangerous road areas.

That's the theory, anyway.
Click to expand...
Oddly, the areas I see Gwinnett cops most are on long stretches on a downslope with a slight curve. I never see them on the upslope. Neither are likely areas for a high accident rate. But, speeds tend to be high and chances of "revenue" are considerably higher.

But consider this: the vast majority of speed radar units are purchased not by the agenies which deploy them, but rather, by auto insuance underwriters.

Think about it.
Click to expand...
I'm not surprised. It's an investment with little to no risk. Speeding doesn't necessarily increase risk of an accident but the increased premiums "justified" for more citations and points on a license... can't beat that!
 
KennyFlys said:
This would make an excellent premise for a movie.
Click to expand...

Smokey and the Bandit meets Airplane. Of course there'd have to be a scene where someone transfers from plane to car (in flight) or vice versa.
 
Most of the time I can accomplish the same objective (getting to my destination on time without getting a speeding ticket) by just leaving a few minutes earlier.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top