What will you do with me (and others like me?)

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weilke said:
The fact that one right wing violent extremist did that doesn't negate the fact that both sides committed acts of violence that day.
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And later ACLU confirmed that the people normally tasked, very specifically, with keeping the peace and stopping acts of violence were given orders not to intervene -- law enforcement was in a no-win political situation, and police using force to stop anyone that day would have been used to bolster the PC group's anger.

See how the PC silliness twists things? Cops couldn't touch anyone. Politicians told them not to.

And the protests that day weren't about the cops. Those were elsewhere. They set the stage for cops not to intervene in OTHER protests. And that, frankly, is a problem for society.

Keep the rhetoric going and the chants and the BS saying that ALL cops are a problem, and you paralyze whole bureaucracies designed to keep everyone "safe".

But you know, I'm "controversial" mentioning that cops know very well how to break up stupid fistfights.

Didn't see any reporters going out of their way other than a handful to ask why the police weren't more actively involved that day. The ACLU news only barely made it out three days later.
 
There are so many false assumptions. First, that all the right wing protesters were white supremacists. Not true. Some were Constitutionalists or neo- confederates, who believe in States supremacy but not slavery, and those who believe the Federal government has grown too powerful and fear the leftist movement but have no problem with race per se. I heard one podcast host who describes himself as a "neo-liberal" say that he thought about 75% of them were racists but the other 25% were groups he actual agreed with on most points. In any case, for the most part they were "authoritarian collectivists" (yep, sounds like a nazi). And, the counter protesters are also, of course, "authoritarian collectivists" (yep by definition straight from Marx is today's progressive left).

So what you had there were two sides of the same sick coin. Extremists on each end resemble each other much more than they resemble most of us here.
 
spiderweb said:
I am very upsetting to people:

I am very pro First AND Second Amendment.

I am a vegan, but I respect hunters.

I am a full-throated supporter of LGBTQ rights, gay marriage, and legalization of marijuana; but -completely- against abortion, and think every American should own any gun they want.

I am a nature lover, will not kill even a mosquito, and literally have tree-hugged on several occasions, but think climate change needs more research and shouldn't be sold as a religion.

I am a rabid peacenik, but support our military and veterans like they are my brothers (one is).

Finally (throwing us all a bone): I am an annoyingly cheap conservationist, and can't stand if even one unneeded light is on in the house, but if I had the money, I'd buy and fly the biggest, most gas-guzzling jet I could, and fly it all day long.
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redtail said:
Really makes you wonder why the most intelligent animals on the planet (man), are the only creatures with the affliction of racial hatred and a false idea of racial superiority! I certainly don't have the answer, but I do believe it WILL be eradicated eventually, BY THE POWER OF GOD.
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Maybe it's because they are not animals at all, but are PEOPLE made in the image of God. Made in the image of God, but fallen and self-serving instead servants.

How do you think God will bring about erasing of racial division?
 
I think the idea that we are the only animals on the planet with the affliction of racial hatred is an unproven assumption.
 
Yes I used "animal" strictly in the biological sense that we are not much different physically. Such as our basic functions of eating, drinking, sleeping, reproducing, etc. What sets us apart, is our minds and what we DO with our ability to think. As such, the first thoughts of "superiority" came from a child of Adam and Eve (peace be upon them). That thought led to hatred and murder! So the 'cancer' was there from the beginning! We are an imperfect creation.

I'm not trying to preach but there's a verse that speaks of God taking his creation (including the human being) through stage after stage of development until it reaches eventual perfection.

There will be no lasting peace and racial harmony in THIS world. This world must run it's course and end. All of the prophets and messengers knew this.
That is what Jesus (Isa in Arabic in the Qur'an) was teaching. (peace be upon him). The NEW world is the world of God and his Christ.

2:30 "And when thy Lord said to the angels, I am going to place a ruler in the earth, they said: Wilt Thou place in it such as make mischief in it and shed blood? And we celebrate Thy praise and extol Thy holiness. He said: Surely I know what you know not."
 
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denverpilot said:
Define "PC".
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I'll give it a shot. Non-PC is anything that could (in any conceivable way, whether rational and believable or not) offend someone who is not White (men only), Christian, or Conservative. PC is anything that advances the progressive agenda.
 
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Cooter said:
I'll give it a shot. Non-PC is anything that could (in any conceivable way, whether rational and believable or not) offend someone who is not White (men only), Christian, or Conservative. PC is anything that advances the progressive agenda.
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Not sure I'm buying that definition. Guns are quite non-PC these days and I know three ultra-Liberals with larger gun collections than mine. And my collection isn't "small" but it's not "huge" either. They're all strongly pro-2A and tend to think that particular topic of the so-called "progressive" agenda is silly.

Of course the media would describe it as "an arsenal" which I think is cute. I wouldn't describe anything without at least one machine gun in it as a proper "arsenal". Ha. Minigun would be better. And grenades. :) Artillery if you can transport it. Missiles would also be good. LOL.
 
weilke said:
And that's fine too. His opinion, he is free to express it*. Doesn't bother me until a vegan violently attacks a butcher or tries to get laws passed to outlaw hunting.






* and I would be free to hold the opinion that he is a drama-queen
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That isn't my opinion. That's his interpretation of my opinion. Also, a "violent vegan" is a pointless animal.
 
denverpilot said:
Not sure I'm buying that definition. Guns are quite non-PC these days and I know three ultra-Liberals with larger gun collections than mine. And my collection isn't "small" but it's not "huge" either. They're all strongly pro-2A and tend to think that particular topic of the so-called "progressive" agenda is silly.

Of course the media would describe it as "an arsenal" which I think is cute. I wouldn't describe anything without at least one machine gun in it as a proper "arsenal". Ha. Minigun would be better. And grenades. :) Artillery if you can transport it. Missiles would also be good. LOL.
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Your friends sound like they are more along the lines of classic liberals, not progressives. If that's so, they are becoming a thing of the past. PC is a tool of the progressive agenda. If your friends value their 2nd Amendment, they may want to try harder to find something in common with Trump.
 
Cooter said:
Your friends sound like they are more along the lines of classic liberals, not progressives. If that's so, they are becoming a thing of the past. PC is a tool of the progressive agenda. If your friends value their 2nd Amendment, they may want to try harder to find something in common with Trump.
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I don't think *I* want to find anything in common with Trump, I'm sure they don't.

But that's the choices we get... oligarchs who pander to radicals because it plays better on TV. Even negative press keeps them in the public consciousness.

Middle of the road politicians get lost in the noise, even though they represent the majority far better than the loud twits on the ends of the political spectrum.

Quite tired of all of them here, really.
 
denverpilot said:
I don't think *I* want to find anything in common with Trump, I'm sure they don't.
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Well, I'm not sure who else you think is going to stand up for your Constitutional rights. The milquetoast repubs sure aren't doing it.
 
Cooter said:
Well, I'm not sure who else you think is going to stand up for your Constitutional rights. The milquetoast repubs sure aren't doing it.
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Like pardoning government officials for breaking the 4th?

(The progressives are all screaming about racism with the Arpaio pardon when the real problem with it is it's yet another government official who gets a pass on the Constitution. But the racism thing plays better on TV and doesn't threaten the Oligarchy because the other side wants their pardons when it's their turn to dodge jail time, too.)
 
I hate PCness and very few things truly offend me.

"Tard" is one of the few that does.
 
Interesting- I discovered this thread while this was on the boob tube:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/klansville/

I don't know much about leftist communists in the USA. What I do know is the local prosecutors (my wife is one) keep getting reports of KKK recruiting fliers. (Google kkk and ward Arkansas for the last time this happened. ) scary stuff.

Where I'm struggling at the moment is I know a few good folks that I respect confidently telling me about "those black people" and "mawell labor". I haven't had that happen since the 90s. Something has changed and I don't like it.

(As an aside- I served in Berlin before the wall fell. Man- I really don't like what's happening. )
 
brian] said:
Interesting- I discovered this thread while this was on the boob tube:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/films/klansville/

I don't know much about leftist communists in the USA. What I do know is the local prosecutors (my wife is one) keep getting reports of KKK recruiting fliers. (Google kkk and ward Arkansas for the last time this happened. ) scary stuff.

Where I'm struggling at the moment is I know a few good folks that I respect confidently telling me about "those black people" and "mawell labor". I haven't had that happen since the 90s. Something has changed and I don't like it.

(As an aside- I served in Berlin before the wall fell. Man- I really don't like what's happening. )
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I found KKK "recruiter" business cards stuffed in the receipt dock at a gas pump. Guy pumping gas on the other side was black. I felt sick thinking he might find the same. :(

I don't like it either.
 
denverpilot said:
Like pardoning government officials for breaking the 4th?

(The progressives are all screaming about racism with the Arpaio pardon when the real problem with it is it's yet another government official who gets a pass on the Constitution. But the racism thing plays better on TV and doesn't threaten the Oligarchy because the other side wants their pardons when it's their turn to dodge jail time, too.)
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I guess it depends on what matters most to you. Corruption exists. Both sides break the rules, but one side seems to get away with it a lot more often. We are to the point of salvaging items on a sinking ship. You can't have everything, so what matters most?
 
spiderweb said:
That isn't my opinion. That's his interpretation of my opinion. Also, a "violent vegan" is a pointless animal.
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That is also my interpretation of your opinion. At least that is what I took away from the somewhat cryptic initial post in your 'Do not murder' thread. If your mentioning of murder and the fact that you are vegetarian was a mere coincidence, well then I guess I misundertood you.
 
Cajun_Flyer said:
I found KKK "recruiter" business cards stuffed in the receipt dock at a gas pump. Guy pumping gas on the other side was black. I felt sick thinking he might find the same. :(

I don't like it either.
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Judging by your screen name, it looks like you are in the south as well. When I moved to Arkansas after the Army/college- I got a rude awakening on how people can distance themselves from others on the basis of race.

I'll just call it a life lesson- something that can't be described unless you witness it. It makes my skin crawl.
 
brian] said:
Judging by your screen name, it looks like you are in the south as well. When I moved to Arkansas after the Army/college- I got a rude awakening on how people can distance themselves from others on the basis of race.

I'll just call it a life lesson- something that can't be described unless you witness it. It makes my skin crawl.
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Is it racism when Black people choose to gather with one another over mixing?
 
Cooter said:
Identity politics happened. A brief look at history will tell you where it is taking us.
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Yep - saw the results of it when I was stationed in Berlin.

I'm of German descent.
I'm a white guy in the south.

I can see the problem in the eyes of family members.
 
brian] said:
Yep - saw the results of it when I was stationed in Berlin.

I'm of German descent.
I'm a white guy in the south.

I can see the problem in the eyes of family members.
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How similar do you think this is to the 1930s Germany?
 
Kritchlow said:
I hate PCness and very few things truly offend me.

"Tard" is one of the few that does.
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But then again you're probably able to tell what context it's used in, and know when someone is meaning it as something bad and when they're just using it to describe silliness or honest stupidity.

Example: I can call my sister a "tard" when she drops a pan full of food on the floor in her kitchen and nobody in the entire world is harmed in the slightest.

If anything she'd retort with "You can't call me that. That word is now inappropriate, don't you know?" LOL.

Nobody in that kitchen is going to be "triggered" by a word. In fact, those who know the context will naturally make it into a running joke. Because that's how our society gets rid of such silliness.

We usually find it in the comics sooner or later if it's wacko. That's just what we the middle, do. Make it more outrageous and then laugh at it.

The more you know someone the funnier it can be. My blind friend who's now passed (miss that guy - better outlook on life than millions who didn't have his challenges) always chuckled when I handed him the car keys and said, "Let's go!"
 
Cooter said:
Is it racism when Black people choose to gather with one another over mixing?
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Not sure what you are getting at there. There is a lot to choice and economics. Witnessing a good friend "renew their vows" a year or so ago was fun as my wife and I were but a hand full of white people in a black church. I felt welcome there.

I have seen"reverse discrimination " (whatever that is supposed to mean)- assuming that is what you are getting at. However, there something different when your having a conversation with a friend and the conversation turns - like i noted before- it's been a while and like porn- I know it when I see it.
 
Cooter said:
How similar do you think this is to the 1930s Germany?
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I'm not that old. From what history I've seen, some seem to think it is a feeling of being left behind. But that is above my pay grade.

Around here, I've noticed that very smart skilled individuals seem to be the ones that seem to ask me about "black people". Seems to track from the history of the time.

But I'm just a guy looking at all this and feeling very stunned that it is even happening.
 
denverpilot said:
But then again you're probably able to tell what context it's used in, and know when someone is meaning it as something bad and when they're just using it to describe silliness or honest stupidity.
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I will agree that context is everything. What I don't like is when some people use a term then immediately brag that they are using it in order "not to be PC". I'm sure there are many who disagree with me but I am not sensitive to that kind of stuff and don't care what people think about my opinion. Then there are those who truly use terms in a denigrating manner. Like another poster said, I know it when I see it.
 
brian] said:
Not sure what you are getting at there. There is a lot to choice and economics. Witnessing a good friend "renew their vows" a year or so ago was fun as my wife and I were but a hand full of white people in a black church. I felt welcome there.

I have seen"reverse discrimination " (whatever that is supposed to mean)- assuming that is what you are getting at. However, there something different when your having a conversation with a friend and the conversation turns - like i noted before- it's been a while and like porn- I know it when I see it.
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I have fairly close ties to Arkansas, and I've been to Black churches. I, like you, felt welcome. I've also been to a weekend BBQ with one other white person with the other 100+ being black. I felt a little weird at first but not fearful in any way other than social awkwardness. In the South, gatherings are often separated along racial lines but it doesn't mean it's racist. It can be, but my experience is that it is not. I think these white supremacists are an extreme minority. I lived in the South for most of my life, and have had almost no encounters with that type. When I have had, they have been total losers and they choose to isolate themselves. I also have gone to Church almost my entire life and I've never been to a church that was racist, that I could tell. That goes for Black and White churches. It would be a mistake to project the racism of a minority on a larger slice of the population than it warrants.
 
brian] said:
Judging by your screen name, it looks like you are in the south as well. When I moved to Arkansas after the Army/college- I got a rude awakening on how people can distance themselves from others on the basis of race.
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People distance themselves for a lot of reasons. Economics (rich don't hang out with poor), Looks (don't want to be seen with them, they're ugly), Weight (ain't hanging out with tubby), Cleanliness (phew, they need a bath), probably many more, and race has nothing to do with it.

And look at you judging by screen name...
 
Cooter said:
I have fairly close ties to Arkansas, and I've been to Black churches. I, like you, felt welcome. I've also been to a weekend BBQ with one other white person with the other 100+ being black. I felt a little weird at first but not fearful in any way other than social awkwardness. In the South, gatherings are often separated along racial lines but it doesn't mean it's racist. It can be, but my experience is that it is not. I think these white supremacists are an extreme minority. I lived in the South for most of my life, and have had almost no encounters with that type. When I have had, they have been total losers and they choose to isolate themselves. I also have gone to Church almost my entire life and I've never been to a church that was racist, that I could tell. That goes for Black and White churches. It would be a mistake to project the racism of a minority on a larger slice of the population than it warrants.
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Tracks pretty well with what I see and believe: a minority. What really gets me is that I met my first KKK member back in the 90s. But in the 2000s it seems like everything was getting better.

Now, something has changed. It seemed like it might have started during Obama's term. But there is no doubt there are a few taking interesting questions about statues (we have our share) and turning the conversation to race. (I have friends asking those questions - they are not the problem. Neither are the civil war reenactment folks.)

I guess my worry is the small minority is growing- or at least getting braver. We can't let that happen.
 
GlennAB1 said:
People distance themselves for a lot of reasons. Economics (rich don't hang out with poor), Looks (don't want to be seen with them, they're ugly), Weight (ain't hanging out with tubby), Cleanliness (phew, they need a bath), probably many more, and race has nothing to do with it.

And look at you judging by screen name...
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Right. That's a good point. People associate with people they have the most in common with. It doesn't have to be sinister. People who are hateful towards another group usually aren't all that influential.
 
brian] said:
Judging by your screen name, it looks like you are in the south as well. When I moved to Arkansas after the Army/college- I got a rude awakening on how people can distance themselves from others on the basis of race.
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Judging by your post you don't read this forum much. Cajun resides in the radical right wing conservative bastion of Massachusetts.

meanwhile - this thread is pretty lock worthy. Where's that darn MC when it it's a bunch of race and politics instead of just shutting off boobie talk?
 
brian] said:
Now, something has changed. It seemed like it might have started during Obama's term.
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Obama was steeped in identity politics. He wanted to fundamentally transform America. It doesn't take much to agitate the extremes. I can provide some context that will demonstrate how we got to where we are but this is probably getting to the point of being Spin Zone material.
 
Ravioli said:
Judging by your post you don't read this forum much. Cajun resides in the radical right wing conservative bastion of Massachusetts.

meanwhile - this thread is pretty lock worthy. Where's that darn MC when it it's a bunch of race and politics instead of just shutting off boobie talk?
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Why is it lock-worthy? It is an interesting discussion, and I don't see any personal insults. I'm the OP, and there were a few who had some opinions on me to share, but I did ask for them LOL
 
Cooter said:
this is probably getting to the point of being Spin Zone material.
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But you had to go there. :frown3:

As others have pointed out (publicly and privately), this thread started out very borderline but we let it go.
 
Cooter said:
Obama was steeped in identity politics. He wanted to fundamentally transform America. It doesn't take much to agitate the extremes. I can provide some context that will demonstrate how we got to where we are but this is probably getting to the point of being Spin Zone material.
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Yes, you're right about identity politics agitating the extremes. And the problem with that is, as you point out, it isn't useful either to agitate, or to think tribalism can work within a large diverse country like America.
 
Everskyward said:
But you had to go there. :frown3:

As others have pointed out (publicly and privately), this thread started out very borderline but we let it go.
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I'm done, you can delete it if you wish. I appreciate the moderators moderation in moderating.:)
 
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