What to Tell Tower?

kontiki

kontiki

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Kontiki
Hi,

I recently started flying out of towered airport.

I contact ground for instructions to taxi from hangar to the run up area. When I'm done with my runup, I switch to tower and need to tell them I'm ready to go.

Telling them I'm ready for departure doesent sound right because I'm not at the stop and hold (its a few feet away) and someone else might be number 1 for takeoff.

Can anybody suggest good words.

Thanks,
 
Whenever I'm ready for departure I say this (an example)

"New Braunfels Tower, Skyhawk 1161F is @ Delta holding short of one-tree ready for takeoff"
 
Hi BT,

Don't call tower untill you are number 1 for take off. When you are the one at the hold short line, and you are the next to take the runway, then call.

An example set of communications might go like this
"Example Ground, Cessna 1234 at the east hangars, ready to taxi with Bravo"
"Cessna 1234, Example Ground, Taxi to Runway 34 via Bravo, Hotel"

Stay on Ground frequency, until you are finished with your runup. When you are finished with your run up, taxi up to the hold short line. When you are ready for take off, number 1, switch to tower frequency

"Example Tower, Cessna 1234, holding short runway 34, ready for take off, VFR to the west"
"Cessna 1234, Example tower, cleared for take off, left turn out approved"


Go to http://flash.aopa.org/asf/radiocomm/swf/flash.cfm? and take the "Say It Right: Mastering Radio Communications" course. It is free, and will be a good refresher.
 
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There may be local variations - e.g. at KPAO you are supposed to call tower before leaving the runup area, not just to taxi up to the hold short line by yourself.
 
Hmm. Most of my experience has been at airports where the runup area was practically right next to the hold short line, and technically, your taxi clearance was to the runway, not the runup area so I would think you are still clear to the actual runway.

Perhaps where you are, your taxi clearances are to the runup area, and not the runway?
 
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ajstoner21 said:
Don't call tower untill you are number 1 for take off.
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Good luck with that - If you wait until you are number one for takeoff at most of the busy airports I fly out of, you will quickly find other planes getting cleared to depart ahead of you that arrived in the runup area after you.
 
Thanks for the helpful suggestions. I will look at the AOPA training. The FBO temporarily moved to KOLV when M01 flooded last month.
The change is really helping me take radio comm to the next level.
I feel really bad for the FBO, but it's helping me.
 
1. Read the appropriate sections of the AIM
2. contact an instructor at the airport and ask about local procedures
 
"Who you want to talk to, who you are, where you are, what you know, what you desire to do" is always served me well so far as a newish VFR pilot.

At KDTO, I've always done "Denton Ground, Warrior niner-five-five-eight-sierra is at tha Academy ramp and India, with the numbers (AWOS info), ready to taxi for VFR departue to (direction)". Ground then provides taxi instructions to the runway, totally expecting me to take some time in the run up area. I was taught to only approach the hold short line when all was well and I was fully ready to go.

At the hold short line, I switch to tower freq, and in between his calls to other aircraft, "Denton Tower, Warrior niner-five-five-eight-sierra holding short runway 18 at alpha-one, have the latest numbers, ready for VFR departure to the (direction)." Clearance is given after a short bit and I'm on my way.

As others are saying, there is a lot of local conventions. Take some time to listen to others on a scanner and you will pick up a good pattern.
 
I call tower and tell them "Ready to go, runway xx, number y."

That way, you're telling him which of the aircraft in line you are. Also allows him to give you a line up and wait without having to do the 2 way dance.
 
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AggieMike88 said:
"Who you want to talk to, who you are, where you are, what you know, what you desire to do" is always served me well so far as a newish VFR pilot.

At KDTO, I've always done "Denton Ground, Warrior niner-five-five-eight-sierra is at tha Academy ramp and India, with the numbers (AWOS info), ready to taxi for VFR departue to (direction)". Ground then provides taxi instructions to the runway, totally expecting me to take some time in the run up area. I was taught to only approach the hold short line when all was well and I was fully ready to go.

At the hold short line, I switch to tower freq, and in between his calls to other aircraft, "Denton Tower, Warrior niner-five-five-eight-sierra holding short runway 18 at alpha-one, have the latest numbers, ready for VFR departure to the (direction)." Clearance is given after a short bit and I'm on my way.

As others are saying, there is a lot of local conventions. Take some time to listen to others on a scanner and you will pick up a good pattern.
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Holy cow. Do you carry a copy of War and Peace too?

"Tower, NXXX, ready to go, runway XX" is just fine. You don't need to add any additional information, including "the numbers" or direction, since you should have given that ground or clearance before.

Concise radio:

Clearance Delivery: Clearance, NXXX, request clearance, VFR (direction) at (altitude), with numbers (or ATIS if at a ATIS airport)
Ground: Ground, NXXX, at (inser location on ramp), taxi for (direction) departure, [if no Clearance delivery, add:] with numbers (or ATIS)
Tower: Tower, NXXX, ready to go, runway XX"
Departure: Departure, NXXX, off RW XX, (altitude leaving)

Specifically:

Clearance Delivery: Clearance, N999NN, request clearance, VFR westbound at 6500, with the numbers.
Ground: Ground, N999NN, at Signature, taxi for westbound departure.
Tower: Tower, N999NN ready to go, runway 4
Departure: Departure, N999NN, off runway 4, 800 for 6500.

You can make it out of almost every Class B, Class C or Class D with those 4 radio calls and nothing else.
 
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*Shyly whispers*

I didn't know there was a runup area. I was always told to just taxi to the line, run up, and call tower
 
gcd89 said:
*Shyly whispers*

I didn't know there was a runup area. I was always told to just taxi to the line, run up, and call tower
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No need to be shy. I generally don't use the runup area unless there's a lot of people behind me, because it really only takes about 30 seconds to a minute to do a full run up. Beyond that, at most airports, the hold short line points your tail away from the taxiway anyway, so you're not likely to be blasting someone behind you.

I'd bet the runup area is better used by those holding for IFR release than those trying to run up really quickly.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Good luck with that - If you wait until you are number one for takeoff at most of the busy airports I fly out of, you will quickly find other planes getting cleared to depart ahead of you that arrived in the runup area after you.
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Calling ready before you're #1 is SOP at most but not all towered airports. IME if they want something different (e.g. call before leaving runnup, calling only when #1, or not calling at all just waiting for tower to call you) there will be something about that on the ATIS.

As to the proper call when none of the exceptions above apply, if I'm not #1 when I call I'll add something like "number three for the runway" or "in sequence" so the tower can immediately tell I'm not the guy at the hold short line. Sometimes when you call as #2 or 3 the tower will ask if you have access when they can't release the one(s) ahead of you but could let you take off. Usually that either means declining or making an intersection takeoff.
 
Listen to the ATIS for special procedures. At some airports when they're busy, you call ground back not tower (KAPA). And you might be instructed NOT to taxi to the hold line until told. And learn were the movement/non-movement areas are. Sometimes you can get the gas pump without talking to ground.
 
gismo said:
As to the proper call when none of the exceptions above apply, if I'm not #1 when I call I'll add something like "number three for the runway" or "in sequence" so the tower can immediately tell I'm not the guy at the hold short line.
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I think "in sequence" ranks right up there with "taking the active" and ATTITAPA for annoyance value. Particularly when the person saying it is the only person anywhere near the runway. What, were they hoping the tower would find someone else to clear for takeoff before they left?
 
Did you read his post before launching your sermonette?

Speed said:
I think "in sequence" ranks right up there with "taking the active" and ATTITAPA for annoyance value. Particularly when the person saying it is the only person anywhere near the runway. What, were they hoping the tower would find someone else to clear for takeoff before they left?
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KAPA recently changed procedures again. Not only are you to call ground back after run-up, but you'll now get two distinct taxi clearances...

One will be to a run-up area and another to the runway. They do NOT want you leaving the run-up area until they clear you to, as they want control of the sequencing to the hold-line(s).

It's also common now that they'll use both full-length and A-16 for departures and stagger which run-up area they'll clear you to, and they require full read-back of intersection departures. They also require you let the Ground controller know your direction of flight.

A typical sequence is this:
"Centennial Ground, Skylane One Two Seven Niner Mike, Area Hotel, Taxi for takeoff Southeast, with Yankee".

"Skylane Seven Niner Mike, Centennial Ground, taxi to run-up area Alpha 16, via Alpha."

"Seven Niner Mike"

--- After taxi and run-up ---

"Ground, Seven Niner Mike ready for departure, Alpha 16 run-up."

"Cessna Seven Niner Mike, taxi to the Alpha 16 Hold-Short Line, Runway Three Five Right, Monitor Tower."

"Seven Niner Mike, Alpha 16 Hold-Short Runway Three Five Right, monitor tower."

--- Note, if you don't include the location you're going to hold short, they'll make you read it back. They also under the new rules need the runway number read-back, so you say it all.

On up to the line, flip the radio over but DO NOT TRANSMIT ---

"Cessna One Two Seven Niner Mike, Caution wake turbulence, prior departure was a CitationJet. Fly straight out, runway heading, cleared for takeoff, Alpha 16 intersection departure, Runway 35 Right."

"Cleared for takeoff 35 Right, A-16, You'll call the turn. Seven Niner Mike."

----

Basically what they're doing is loading up the ground frequency to un-jam the Tower frequency. It's interesting.

When winds allow, the ground controller getting your direction of flight helps them determine if maybe you can use Runway 10 for departure, and they'll ask directly if you can use it if you've just asked for anything from Northeast thru Southeast for departure.

The "monitor" tower is serious. They'll chastise on-air if you call up the Tower. Transients miss that phraseology all the time. Locals flip their radios and wait patiently.

All of this other than the new "double taxi clearance" and "monitor tower" is on the ATIS.

"Special procedures in effect. Notify Ground your direction of flight. After taxi, notify Ground when run-up complete, ready for departure. Advise on initial contact you have Yankee."

There's another interesting side-effect to these special procedures. At any other time in the ATC system, there's always a positive hand-off from one controller to another. In the normal Ground to Tower switch-over you could do that at any time at most airports. At KAPA they've basically re-added the controller hand-off. The Ground controller passes you to Tower.

I've gotten so used to it that when I've gone elsewhere I feel like I "missed" something when I finish my run-up and move to the Hold line without talking to anyone about it, and then call the Tower.
 
Interesting...at KAPA I've always called ground for taxi from wherever I was on the ramp. And then called ground again after runup was complete.

For 3 whole days, FTG had the added instruction to use entire call sign at all times. No more last-3-characters after acknowledgement from ground and/or tower.

Sunday? Not there anymore. Back to the shortcut after initial acknowlegement.

And for KAPA - weekends when both N-S runways are in use and lots of student practice, now you've got to deal with 3 freqs - ground, tower17L-35R, tower 17R/35L. And how many know there's a separate freq for 10-28? I've never heard it being used, but it's there, just in case.
 
murphey said:
Interesting...at KAPA I've always called ground for taxi from wherever I was on the ramp. And then called ground again after runup was complete.
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Uhh, that's what I said. They're just adding an intermediate/additional clearance from the run-up area to the hold line now.

murphey said:
For 3 whole days, FTG had the added instruction to use entire call sign at all times. No more last-3-characters after acknowledgement from ground and/or tower.

Sunday? Not there anymore. Back to the shortcut after initial acknowlegement.
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Weird.

murphey said:
And for KAPA - weekends when both N-S runways are in use and lots of student practice, now you've got to deal with 3 freqs - ground, tower17L-35R, tower 17R/35L. And how many know there's a separate freq for 10-28? I've never heard it being used, but it's there, just in case.
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Got any idea what it is? Never seen it. I should add it to my LiveATC KAPA Tower feed's scanner in case it ever gets used. :)

(Yes, the KAPA Tower LiveATC feed comes from my upstairs guest bedroom. The KAPA Twr/Gnd/Approach is another person feeding. He was down for a while so I "filled in" and then Dave Pascoe decided since KAPA gets busy enough to split the TWR regularly, folks might like having a Tower Only feed with no Approach stuff. I believe Dave is still shopping for a better location to feed KDEN from... everything's so far away the ground stuff is hard to pick up with building shielding, etc. I suggested that with enough filtering on the receivers I could feed it from the top of Conifer Mountain, but he said he had something in the works.)
 
In the absence of ATIS instructions its callsign, ready, # in line if applicable. Ground is next to tower in the cab, if its not the same person working two positions. They know where I am. If they dont know, they will ask.

I will wait a minute before asking to jump the line... usually you can tell who is waiting for IFR release if you simply LISTEN to radio traffic while taxiing/doing run up... as opposed to who is simply VFR in line ahead of you. But if its clear I'm waiting behind an IFR I have no qualms about asking once.. Tower either says yes or no.

And when I say ready, I'm READY. For immediate departure. Trim set, radios set, flaps set if needed. Its taxi out, fuel pump on and push the throttle forward. If there's a busy place that has a tower and a line, the courteous thing to do is GET GOING promptly.
 
Both class D airports I'm flying frquently you call the ground, tell them where you are, VFR/IFR and direction of flight. They give you taxi instructions. Read back and ask for flight following if desired. Usually they will have sqwuak for you and departure frequency before you reach runup area or during runup. When finished runup switch to tower freq and say you are ready and departure request. They will call your number for departure. And you have to be ready for immediate departure once called tower.
 
pericynthion said:
There may be local variations - e.g. at KPAO you are supposed to call tower before leaving the runup area, not just to taxi up to the hold short line by yourself.
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Indeed there are. Some of them are on the ATIS, so listen for the unusual procedure.

Another example: at KAPA, KORL (and KVNY?) you contact Ground when ready for departure and wait to be sequenced to Tower.

kontiki, what's the matter with "ready for departure" (and the language appears in the AIM)? After all, you are. They just may not be quite ready for you yet but it's nice to tell them you are ready.
 
SkyHog said:
No need to be shy. I generally don't use the runup area unless there's a lot of people behind me, because it really only takes about 30 seconds to a minute to do a full run up. Beyond that, at most airports, the hold short line points your tail away from the taxiway anyway, so you're not likely to be blasting someone behind you.

I'd bet the runup area is better used by those holding for IFR release than those trying to run up really quickly.
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Most airports are like that there are some that are different. Chicago Executive is one that is different. For pistons they expect you to taxi to the run up area, do your runup and stay in the box. Then you call tower telling them you are ready for take off and in the run up area. Tower will tell you if they want you to proceed to the hold short line or not. That is the only airport I know around here that is that way. Most are like what you described.
 
What if you don't need to do a run up at APA (or as I read further CGX ---oops, that's not Chicago Executive, PWK) ?
 
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EdFred said:
What if you don't need to do a run up at APA (or as I read further CGX ---oops, that's not Chicago Executive, PWK) ?
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Yep Chicago Exec is the airport formally known as Palwaukee KPWK. I do wonder if they will go after the now unused KCGX identifier. But that is another topic. The Palwaukee name come from the airport being at the intersection of Palatine Rd. and Milwaukee Ave.
 
BTW, one thing that some people have included in their examples and some have not is the fact that all taxi clearances are now required to include specific taxiways. And, at least at my airport, they'll make you repeat your acknowledgment if you don't read back the full clearance.

Pilot: Lincoln ground, Cessna niner two eight two uniform at Silverhawk ready to taxi to three fife. (I already told clearance that I had ATIS)
Ground: Cessna niner two eight two uniform cleared to taxi to runway three fife via kilo, alpha.
Pilot: Lincoln ground, Cessna niner two eight two uniform cleared three fife via kilo alpha.
 
EdFred said:
What if you don't need to do a run up at APA (or as I read further CGX ---oops, that's not Chicago Executive, PWK) ?
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I would tell ground that you will be ready at the end. They assume that for turbine airplanes but not for pistons. Of course they may have you pull into the runup area to wait your turn. Your sequence also depends on whether you are VFR or IFR.

For the OP, it's obvious that there are many different local procedures. Listen to the ATIS for clues. Some airports will also have a sign telling you to monitor tower as you taxi past a certain point. Large airports with a lot of airline traffic will expect you to monitor on the tower frequency and not call them at all. In the absence of other information call tower and tell them where you are and that you are ready for takeoff.
 
Not being a smarta$$ but where does the "line up and wait" language come into play in the scenarios above?
 
Jaybird180 said:
Not being a smarta$$ but where does the "line up and wait" language come into play in the scenarios above?
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Instead of clearing you to take off, the tower will tell you to line up and wait - at that point readback, you taxi out on the runway and wait there until either the tower clears you for takoff or you get squished like a bug when the tower forgets you are there and lets a 777 land on top of you (that doesn't usually happen - but after more than a few seconds sitting there, you will start to imagine it happening...)
 
Speed said:
I think "in sequence" ranks right up there with "taking the active" and ATTITAPA for annoyance value. Particularly when the person saying it is the only person anywhere near the runway. What, were they hoping the tower would find someone else to clear for takeoff before they left?
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I've never heard any complaints about "in sequence" before but I only use it when there are one or more airplanes blocking my access to the runway and it's not obvious to me which ones are actually ahead of me in line. If you can suggest better phraseology for such a situation I'm willing to change. I've had more than one experience where someone called ready and the tower had to waste significant time sorting out the fact that the one calling ready wasn't first in line.
 
gismo said:
I've never heard any complaints about "in sequence" before but I only use it when there are one or more airplanes blocking my access to the runway and it's not obvious to me which ones are actually ahead of me in line. If you can suggest better phraseology for such a situation I'm willing to change. I've had more than one experience where someone called ready and the tower had to waste significant time sorting out the fact that the one calling ready wasn't first in line.
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I agree with this. It depends on the airport but especially at airports with a lot of GA traffic or traffic which is feeding the runway from both sides it pays to call when ready, not just when #1. I'll say in "in sequence" and I'm not sure why that bothers people but I'm also not sure why "with you", which I don't say but others in the same airplane will say, bothers people.

I know that a lot of people want some answer set in stone which works everywhere but there isn't one.
 
FlyNE said:
BTW, one thing that some people have included in their examples and some have not is the fact that all taxi clearances are now required to include specific taxiways. And, at least at my airport, they'll make you repeat your acknowledgment if you don't read back the full clearance.

Pilot: Lincoln ground, Cessna niner two eight two uniform at Silverhawk ready to taxi to three fife. (I already told clearance that I had ATIS)
Ground: Cessna niner two eight two uniform cleared to taxi to runway three fife via kilo, alpha.
Pilot: Lincoln ground, Cessna niner two eight two uniform cleared three fife via kilo alpha.
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Yes, ground is supposed to provide specific taxi routing but AFaIK you don't have to read it back verbatim unless there's some instruction on the ATIS requiring that. You do have to include the runway you're taxiing to now and it's been a requirement to read back all hold short instructions for a long time. I don't see any problem with including the route in your readback (if it's complicated that seems like a really good idea) but I don't believe that's necessary at most airports. Your example also left out the now mandatory "hold short three five at..." which you are also required to include in your response. I have had a few controllers insist that the route be read back but the tower manager at my home base said that's not supposed to happen.

WRT providing the ATIS ID to clearance and not ground, that appears to be an airport specific issue. AFaIK at many places you're not even expected to listen to the ATIS before calling clearance delivery and it's not uncommon to make that call well before you're ready to go which means the ATIS could change before you call for taxi instructions.
 
Jaybird180 said:
Not being a smarta$$ but where does the "line up and wait" language come into play in the scenarios above?
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I think, you can only receive Line Up and Wait from tower, not ground, after the hand-off (either normal "contact tower" or denversque "monitor tower").
 
gismo said:
Yes, ground is supposed to provide specific taxi routing but AFaIK you don't have to read it back verbatim unless there's some instruction on the ATIS requiring that. You do have to include the runway you're taxiing to now and it's been a requirement to read back all hold short instructions for a long time. I don't see any problem with including the route in your readback (if it's complicated that seems like a really good idea) but I don't believe that's necessary at most airports. Your example also left out the now mandatory "hold short three five at..." which you are also required to include in your response. I have had a few controllers insist that the route be read back but the tower manager at my home base said that's not supposed to happen.

WRT providing the ATIS ID to clearance and not ground, that appears to be an airport specific issue. AFaIK at many places you're not even expected to listen to the ATIS before calling clearance delivery and it's not uncommon to make that call well before you're ready to go which means the ATIS could change before you call for taxi instructions.
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They want "taxi to 35 via kilo alpha for Cessna eight two uniform". If you don't give them the destination, route, and tail number, they'll bark at you about it and won't let you go until you say all of those elements together. I believe the ATIS states the requirement but I can't remember exactly. I'm just used to it.

They don't seem to care about you saying "hold short of 35".
 
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