What to do after a PPL?

[jbarrass]

is their a reason you definitely want the R-ATP route ? The final place he wants to go is going to require ATP. And he will have some hourly benefits, but age will rule him out. And between 17-22 years - its a lot of time to just be eligible to get the full ATP. I ask because many places require ATP anyhow, and your options for being hired early with an R-ATP are kind of limited. So is it really worth it ? But this also assumes that you are willing to explore the non-141 R-ATP options that are available - notably a much cheaper option going through part 61 vs 141. but that option doesnt allow unrestricted loans. If college is something you want - get a 4 year degree - be a student - learn/educate and continue to work and get your ratings through the 4 years. Hell, I know college students who are CFI's at nearby airports (not affiliated with the university). But get a "real" degree from a college.

Now if college isnt for you - totally get it. You're just using the college for loans to get your flight certs and end up with a lower grade ATP (for awhile) and a lower rate college degree - but you'll get it done together. Which is understandable. The only "college affiliated" flight school I would say doesnt qualify under not as good would be Purdue. But rumor is their flight school is a bit of a mess as well (as many are).

Not speaking for the OP, but I think you have a pretty narrow view, IMHO.

I've heard good things about Purdue. Don't know your source. And Ohio State, Baylor, Auburn, and many other well regarded universities have approved R-ATP programs.

Of course, experience matters and pro pilot options are more limited at 21YO and 1001 hours than at 23YO and 1501 hours. But there are certainly more options with an R-ATP than with a COM rating.

The whole 141 vs 61 debate is interesting. I've always done part 61, but that worked for me. I absolutely see the value of a structured program though. And I'm not an airline pilot, but I do see the value of learning in a structured CRM model for that path.

College may or not be for everyone, but it has proven to be helpful for many.

The loan thing seems like a red herring. My kid wants the Airline Pilot route, no loans are in play.

 

[Anthem]

Not speaking for the OP, but I think you have a pretty narrow view, IMHO.

I've heard good things about Purdue. Don't know your source. And Ohio State, Baylor, Auburn, and many other well regarded universities have approved R-ATP programs.

Of course, experience matters and pro pilot options are more limited at 21YO and 1001 hours than at 23YO and 1501 hours. But there are certainly more options with an R-ATP than with a COM rating.

The whole 141 vs 61 debate is interesting. I've always done part 61, but that worked for me. I absolutely see the value of a structured program though. And I'm not an airline pilot, but I do see the value of learning in a structured CRM model for that path.

College may or not be for everyone, but it has proven to be helpful for many.

The loan thing seems like a red herring. My kid wants the Airline Pilot route, no loans are in play.

It might be a narrow view. The issue I have with this is the following. College degrees fall under a few categories -
-no boost in credentials. they check a box so you can get in the door (most pilot training related degrees fall under this category )
-decent school, ok probably a decent student and maybe a plus
-top notch schools (USNews top 25 type of schools) - you could go further and say top 7 (harvard, stanford, CalTech/MIT, Princeton, Yale) as well being a different tier

But lets be real - a ton of these people going to 141 under some sort of loan or grant - frequently dont even graduate. The numbers are **** poor - like really **** poor (maybe single digit poor). The R-ATP guys at least have the requirement to graduate (with associates degree (pretty useless check off anywhere) or a Bachelors (mostly under the decent school).

But absolutely right on the 21yo R-ATP vs 23 with unrestricted ATP. So if you're going to go to college - get a degree at the best university (and not flight challenged/restricted) and work through your ratings that way. And if university isnt for you - then in my opinion ( which isnt always populare) - dont pay for the stuff you arent going to finish which everyone does because thats the only way they can get a loan to finish flight school. But you are massively overpaying for "credits" at a usually not so great school that you arent going to even get the benefit of.

 

[loganjvx]

I agree that the degree is not the best, nor is the condition of the training, but I am willing to compromise on that if it means I get into the more “exclusive” legacy programs. These colleges have direct links with the airlines and filter kids through direct to legacy carriers. A lot of the college kids I speak to get their degree and go straight to a legacy carrier through the programs such as united aviate, jet blue gateways, and the delta propel program. That is the value I see in the college and why I would pay so much to go there. I see the whole airline gig sort of as a race, where as soon as you get to a company you build seniority, which is important to me for one reason. Schedule flexibility. The more seniority you have, the more likely you are to be able to build your own schedule, which is a must have for me, and something i wouldn’t find at a regional program. So the faster I am in the door at a legacy, the sooner I build up seniority and am able to customize my schedule to be more conducive to a family lifestyle.

 

[RickC]

start a youtube channel

 

[WDD]

If you do, please don't video yourself jumping out of a disabled airplane, doing inspection passes, or trying to swap planes in mid air........

 

[loganjvx]

Yeah….. no thanks.

 

[Pinecone]

Maryland also lost one just a year or two ago.

 

[Brad W]

interesting thread...and insightful young person to be asking this.... thinking a step or two ahead of their peers!

If it were me, and assuming money isn't an issue, I think I would focus most on aerobatic or upset training, & perhaps glider as the first things. then after that maybe things like conventional gear, seaplane, multi, or similar.....
At first blush I like the idea of just building experience in the system, flight following, etc. as a way to give a leg up for the upcoming instrument stuff.... but that stuff will come regardless. I see aerobatics and sailplane as grassroot fundamental stuff that can always help no matter how you end up flying but you won't likely have time for later on. And it's probably fun to boot!

 

[unsafervguy]

I agree that the degree is not the best, nor is the condition of the training, but I am willing to compromise on that if it means I get into the more “exclusive” legacy programs. These colleges have direct links with the airlines and filter kids through direct to legacy carriers. A lot of the college kids I speak to get their degree and go straight to a legacy carrier through the programs such as united aviate, jet blue gateways, and the delta propel program. That is the value I see in the college and why I would pay so much to go there. I see the whole airline gig sort of as a race, where as soon as you get to a company you build seniority, which is important to me for one reason. Schedule flexibility. The more seniority you have, the more likely you are to be able to build your own schedule, which is a must have for me, and something i wouldn’t find at a regional program. So the faster I am in the door at a legacy, the sooner I build up seniority and am able to customize my schedule to be more conducive to a family lifestyle.

sorry to burst your bubble, but unless your in the top 10 percent in aircraft/base/seat/ airline flying is not totally conducive to a family lifestyle. the majority of pilots schedule is at best a compromise. you will miss ball games, plays, vacations, its just a part of the job. as a FO i was 14 perecent in status. i was number 39 out of almost 400 FO's i didn't alwas get the days off i wanted.i could get either summer vacation or christmas, but not both. after upgrade, start all over on reserve. i spent this thanksgiving in the sim. a lot of young guys have been hired. the captains list will stagnate in the coming years. if you cant face these facts, you might reconsider your choices.

 

[loganjvx]

sorry to burst your bubble, but unless your in the top 10 percent in aircraft/base/seat/ airline flying is not totally conducive to a family lifestyle. the majority of pilots schedule is at best a compromise. you will miss ball games, plays, vacations, its just a part of the job. as a FO i was 14 perecent in status. i was number 39 out of almost 400 FO's i didn't alwas get the days off i wanted.i could get either summer vacation or christmas, but not both. after upgrade, start all over on reserve. i spent this thanksgiving in the sim. a lot of young guys have been hired. the captains list will stagnate in the coming years. if you cant face these facts, you might reconsider your choices.

I understand, I just mean as seniority builds and time goes on hopefully I will be able to have a little bit more flexibility in my schedule. Plus, Im not invested and going after flying for the money, the schedule, perks, etc etc. I am invested and becoming a professional pilot because I am the type of person who needs to get 1000ft between their buns and the ground on a daily basis- I love to fly, that’s about it. Everything else is secondary. My thought process is that eventually i’ll end up flying somewhere for somebody so it will work out as long as i do my part and become a professional and experienced aviator.

 

[infrequentFlyer]

Agree with the Glider, Tailwheel, Seaplane and Aerobatics.

Since most aerobatic aircraft are tailwheel, you can sort of combine those two.

And all of them are fun and will make you a better pilot.

Aerobatics is just a course, right? Is there an aerobat endorsement?

Also wondering ... are the glider recommendations to get comfortable with engine out operations or is it just fun ?

 

[Dana]

Aerobatics is just a course, right? Is there an aerobat endorsement?

Also wondering ... are the glider recommendations to get comfortable with engine out operations or is it just fun ?

In the US, there is no endorsement.

Gliders are fun, certainly, and get you comfortable with engine out, but they also make you learn good rudder coordination and energy management.

 

[Pinecone]

Aerobatics is just a course, right? Is there an aerobat endorsement?

Also wondering ... are the glider recommendations to get comfortable with engine out operations or is it just fun ?

Yes. You can do as much or as little as you want.

WRT, BOTH.

I have flown to 18,000 feet in a glider and flown a 6 hour 2 minute flight in a glider

 

[bflynn]

Hello Everyone,

I am 17, and a new private pilot as of yesterday! I am hoping to do R-ATP at a Part-141 college program after the completion of my senior year. In the meantime, I would like to be productive, and pursue further ratings that wouldn’t disqualify me from the R-ATP. I have come up with complex/high performance, tailwheel, spin, multi-engine, and acrobatic. My goal is to become a professional pilot, either flying an airline, cargo, or corporate job. Could anyone please advise as to what would be the best ratings to pursue before I go Part-141 and start my Instrument Rating? Any and all feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Recommendation - the difference between a R-ATP with a 4 year degree and a regular ATP is 500 flight hours. Compare the cost of those 500 flight hours with the cost difference of the Part 141 training. Example, at ERU I remember seeing the flight training was 85k plus another 100k for tuition. For 185k, I could get all my certificates including multi and start flying commercially well before the ATP. Oh, and have a lot of money left over.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

airline flying is not totally conducive to a family lifestyle. the majority of pilots schedule is at best a compromise. you will miss ball games, plays, vacations, its just a part of the job.

The old joke is to find a woman you hate, give her your house and half your money and get it over with.

 

[D.B. Cole]

After my PPL I spent about 50 hours just flying to as many new airports as I could in preparation for the IR. After the instrument I found I spent a lot of time maintaining that proficiency and occasionally working on the commercial. I eventually obtained my tailwheel endorsement and racked up about 15 hours of aerobatics before I stopped flying for over a decade.

Within one flight of restating I hopped back in the Super Decathlon for a few hours of aerobatics before restarting the commercial. I hope to pursue the glider rating afterwards. I honestly wish I'd done it before powered.

 

[Pinecone]

The old joke is to find a woman you hate, give her your house and half your money and get it over with.

My favorite is a friend, airline pilot, who bought the same house 3 times.

He bought it with his wife. He paid for it while she had it after the divorce. And then he and his new wife bought it from his first wife.

 

[Pinecone]

I hope to pursue the glider rating afterwards. I honestly wish I'd done it before powered.

That would be the best way to learn to fly, IMO.

 

[D.B. Cole]

Aerobatics is just a course, right? Is there an aerobat endorsement?

Also wondering ... are the glider recommendations to get comfortable with engine out operations or is it just fun ?

In most places you can do it hourly, but some schools offer 5 and 10 hour structured courses. Try an hour and see if you like it.

 

[infrequentFlyer]

In most places you can do it hourly, but some schools offer 5 and 10 hour structured courses. Try an hour and see if you like it.

Already on my list!