What path should I take to get to the majors

[sourdough44]

Have you joined the National Guard yet? Are you so inclined?

 

[pfarber]

I put my Cessna 172 into experimental and my cost dropped 60%, so it can make a big difference

Wut?

You told the agent your 172 is registered as an experimental or you spent the time money to get a special airworthiness certificate in the experimental catagory?

 

[Silvaire]

….. I put my Cessna 172 into experimental and my cost dropped 60%, so it can make a big difference. I’m training my daughter in it now, and a buddy is taking his commercial check ride in it next month...

So you've read 91.319? Who granted you your deviation authority?

 

[Tarheelpilot]

 

[pfarber]

Regarding pre-paying an instructor or flight school....

Pre-paying small blocks of dollars in order to get a discounted rate: Good and worth doing.

Pre-paying the entire amount required for that round of training: Bad idea and history is littered with students who did that and had their flight school vaporize into the night with all their money (and sometimes training records) in hand, lost for ever.

DO NOT GIVE THE FLIGHT SCHOOL YOUR MONEY.

Most flight schools are just not that good and by giving them your money they effectively have you hostage.

Most flight schools have CFI's that are just garbage CFI's building time, or burned out grumps. Face it, a CFI at a school is lucky to make $20/hr. They are not happy and they generally hate the job (yes, I can prove it).

You want a small FBO with a career CFI or retired ATP that does it for the fun of it. They will cost more, but your level of instruction should be much higher. In two years I had 5 CFIs (3 at a 'flight school': one rage quit. The other sucked so bad I told him to land and I refused to pay and third basically took 141 over pt 61 so I was flying less than 3 times a month). The last two were from the same FBO I would get lessons from both.

 

[Jeff767]

“”as far as buying an airplane….. as with drugs, just say no, at least till getting PPL. Your insurance will b a lot and you won’t be able to do even owner maintenance items so will be paying for A&P’s to do simple repairs. if you do buy, find a partner or 2 in your same situation, preferably one with an A&P. I’d also suggest looking at an experimental to keep cost low,….. I put my Cessna 172 into experimental and my cost dropped 60%, so it can make a big difference. I’m training my daughter in it now, and a buddy is taking his commercial check ride in it next month,….it cost $20 /hr compared to $135-150 local rental rates, so do a lot of research before buying anything.””

Is this a US based and registered 172? I am trying to understand what you did. A 172 can’t be placed in the experimental category. You could place it in the Experimental exhibition category but this comes with huge restrictions on when, where and for what purpose it can be flown. It certainly can’t be used for flight training unless you got the FAA to write that into your operating limitations which is highly unlikely. It also requires the removal and destruction of the aircraft data plate which makes a 172 essentially worthless for resale. You have to reregister the aircraft and add the experimental placards which is going to get attention from any flight examiner. In addition you have to write a yearly letter to the FAA detailing your exhibition plans for the year as that is the only reason it can fly. You have to put each event you plan to attend into the letter. I dearly wanted a experimental exhibition aircraft once but after a many discussions with the FAA realized it just was not practical. Can you elaborate a bit on this post?

“”Although many have tried, past & current FAA policy does not allow for converting a previously certified aircraft to the experimental amateur-build category, regardless how much you modify, disassemble/assemble the aircraft. However, some countries allow for simple conversion to similar amateur-built type category, such as Canada’s Owner Maintenance Category, intended to keep older aircraft flying by allowing non-certified mods such as engine conversions.””

 

[TCABM]

Lots of good thoughts. OP won’t be age eligible for an ATP until 21. Before that, the question is medical eligibility. At 17, there may not be much history, but there may be some challenges.

As a career military guy, I’ll be the naysayer for military if the desire to serve regardless of career field doesn’t exist. There are no guarantees for selection to or completion of an aviation pipeline.

I look at these conversations as similar to military transition conversations, which I do a lot of. Things to consider about a career decision:

1. What do you need to be qualified for a career? In this instance, 21 years of age, a valid first class medical and an ATP or R-ATP certificate are hard qualifiers and bachelor’s of some sort is a soft qualifier.

2. What paths are available to accomplish #1?

3. Who do you know (or who knows someone else) already going down this path? These people are resources to inform and serve as guide/mentor along the way.

4. How hard are you willing to work at the first three in order to achieve your goal?

5. What’s your plan if you find that living the dream is a nightmare?

 

[Jeff767]

There are many options for milItaly flight training that guarantee admission to flight school. Making it through a military flight training program and getting winged is not guaranteed.

 

[pfarber]

Is this a US based and registered 172? I am trying to understand what you did. A 172 can’t be placed in the experimental category.

There is a way that a 172 could be given a special or limited airworthy cert for testing/development. The downside is insurance (which you don't need hull only liability which is not expensive) and getting the FAA to do what they loathe... taking certified AC and putting them into other than standard categories.

That being said there is an STC for an LS3 Chevvy motor to be put into a 172. That would have required a new AW cert, but once it was STC'd, its back into standard airworthiness category. Evidently a place called 'Quiet Avaition' has an LS3 STC for the 172.

As for parent... well, my money is on simply lying to get a cheaper rate which will be useless if a claim is ever made and they find out its NOT an experimental.

 

[Bell206]

It also requires the removal and destruction of the aircraft data plate which makes a 172 essentially worthless for resale.

Do you have a reference for that? None of the TC'd aircraft I was involved with that went EXP for a time required removal of the data plate and all were put back to a standard AWC. Perhaps you're thinking of salvage aircraft?

 

[Velocity173]

There are many options for milItaly flight training that guarantee admission to flight school. Making it through a military flight training program and getting winged is not guaranteed.

Except the Army. If you can maintain a pulse throughout flight school, then show up to graduation late with a hangover but early enough before your name is called, it’s guaranteed. Probably won’t get fixed wing but a good shot at helos.

 

[Jeff767]

Do you have a reference for that? None of the TC'd aircraft I was involved with that went EXP for a time required removal of the data plate and all were put back to a standard AWC. Perhaps you're thinking of salvage aircraft?

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...tified-aircraft-into-an-experimental-aircraft

 

[Bell206]

https://aviation.stackexchange.com/...tified-aircraft-into-an-experimental-aircraft

That's more an opinion. As I mentioned the removal of the data tag only applies to aircraft built from salvage provided you can't get a letter from the current model TC holder to go standard AWC. If you look to the linked Order 8130.2 it explains the requirements to move aircraft into different type AWC and categories. Never once pulled a data tag for a Special AWC nor does 8130.2 state same. And as a FYI, there is even a route to have active Special and Standard AWCs for the same aircraft which also do not require the removal of the data tag.

 

[Crashnburn]

Hello My name is Ryan I'm a Junior in high school about to turn 17 I want to make it to the majors but I am trying to decide the best path for me currently I found a flight school that would do my PPL part 61 at 11 grand full costs but I feel like this will add up quickly with all the upcoming certificates after that I'm wondering if I should buy my own airplane like a Cessna 150/152 and make it IFR compatible if I can would that save me money in the long run? and even use it for my commercial license any help is greatly appreciated.


Thanks - Ryan

My only thought is to at least wait until you've soloed, so you're beating up someone else's plane while you're learning to land.

Additionally, ownership is another learning experience, probably best to wait until you get your PPL so you don't oversaturate your brain with learning experiences.