What must I carry?

Here's what I do:

Airworthiness cert, w&b, and manual/operating limitations/POH stays in the airplane
Medical/ private cert/ photo ID/ copy of owners manual stays in my flight bag.

I have a checklist book and I keep the stuff in my flight bag inside sleeves in the back of that.

If I'm traveling anywhere by means other than my own airplane I just take my checklist book and pack it. That way if I see some magnificent flight machine and decide I simply must rent it and fly, I just have to grab my checklist book and everything I need on my person is there. Otherwise it stays in my flight bag. I'm not flying without that, and combined with what stays in the airplane, I'm guaranteed to have what I need
 
FastEddieB said:
Yes it does!
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You are wrong. Actually it takes a little above average. "Long" is relative and unmeasurable therefore anyone who said that is incorrect, per FAR 87.9365.72639(c)2 verified by a legal opinion from binder&binder... The guys from the TV commercial
 
Am I the only one that looked at the title and thought

"Something with at least 5 rounds, .380 or larger"

?
 
Any pilot would be wise to review the TCDS of the aircraft he operates. I see guys refer to no POH requirement in older 172s. No wonder, look at the placard requirements. The info is all there. Know your plane. Read the TCDS and pay attention to the equipment requirements.
 
^^ placing all those placards was as fun as finding someone who produced them for a '56
 
any trophy shop can make labels to your specs out of a wide variety of materials and color schemes. Simple stuff.
 
MotoFlier said:
If I'm reading this correct you are a PPL holder? Which than leads to the more important question of how you made it through the Written, Oral, and checkride without knowing this.
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Like I said, I'm new here. Are you serious, or are you one of those guys who likes to misunderstand a question and then give a snarky answer? If it's the latter, ok, lol.
 
flyingron said:
There isn't any. ARROW was always a dumbass mnemonic (I really think someone came up with the word first and tried to fit the rules into it).

Most later aircraft have the w&b as part of the AFM. In my case the general envelope info is in the limitations book that's mandatory and while it doesn't state it anywhere specific the empty weight and arm are on my required "equipment list."
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This is probably the most accurate answer. The W&B info is located in the POH/AFM of aircraft produced after the FAA standardized the requirement. I don't know that I would go so far as to call it a 'dumbass' mnemonic, but as with most mnemonics, someone probably came up with it first and then fit things into it.
 
Band new jets delivered with:

FAA approved Airplane Flight Manual, containing a W&B section full of everything but the actual Empty Weight Report :mad2: (in a 8.5 by 5.5 inch 7 ring binder)

No Separate Weight & Balance or Loading Manual

So where is the weight report? In a massive 8.5 by 11 inch three ring "delivery" binder (these pages won't fit in the AFM) full of burn certs, AD/SB log, RVSM data, just a pile of stuff you won't carry on board but keep for maintenance history.

Always confuses me why they don't put an empty weight in the W&Bs section of the AFM.
 
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bnt83 said:
Band new jets delivered with:

FAA approved Airplane Flight Manual, containing a W&B section full of everything but the actual Empty Weight Report :mad2: (in a 8.5 by 5.5 inch 7 ring binder)

No Separate Weight & Balance or Loading Manual

So where is the weight report? In a massive 8.5 by 11 inch three ring "delivery" binder (these pages won't fit in the AFM) full of burn certs, AD/SB log, RVSM data, just a pile of stuff you won't carry on board but keep for maintenance history.

Always confuses me why they don't put an empty weight in the W&Bs section of the AFM.
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That's interesting....I've never seen a POH that was not serialized with the airframe and had the factory W&B data included. But, I've never owned a jet.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That's interesting....I've never seen a POH that was not serialized with the airframe and had the factory W&B data included. But, I've never owned a jet.
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I think the only thing serialized in these AFMs, as it arrives, is the title page where they hand write in the registration # and the airframe serial #. Everything else looks like a generic book that they get when they order a part number from a warehouse.
 
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AirCoe said:
I'm new to this (or any) forum, so don't know what to expect or if I'm doing this right. I'm also a fairly new private VFR pilot.

Can someone please tell me where I can find the list of documents required in my flight bag? (If this works, I have more questions.)
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You find the lists in Pt 61 and 91 of the FARs.
 
AirCoe said:
Like I said, I'm new here. Are you serious, or are you one of those guys who likes to misunderstand a question and then give a snarky answer? If it's the latter, ok, lol.
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that's half of the membership here. I'm surprised we dont have the requisite "I know everything I'm supposed to carry" answer.
 
gitmo234 said:
that's half of the membership here. I'm surprised we dont have the requisite "I know everything I'm supposed to carry" answer.
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The issue is really one of, "You have been tested on this very information not once, but twice, in the process of getting a PPL. Why is this a question you are asking now?" This is required knowledge on both the written and practical exams for Private Pilot.
 
Right, I get that and I agree, but that that statement should also be followed by some actual information to help get the question answered. It's pretty common here to have a thread with a topic or question I get answers like that. My "six seater" thread has an example.

Paraphrased I said "I have a 172, gonna have a need for a larger useful load soon, looking at X,Y and Z, any other suggestions". There's a post that says "I do just fine in my 172". Other than quoting them and saying "I'm very proud of you", there's no real purpose.

The guy is here for some help. Should he know it already? Yes, this shouldnt be very complicated except for those situation with some over the top TCDS. There's always a post or two like this where some one has to be a dick and instead of posting something helpful they just run their mouth.
 
gitmo234 said:
Right, I get that and I agree, but that that statement should also be followed by some actual information to help get the question answered. It's pretty common here to have a thread with a topic or question I get answers like that. My "six seater" thread has an example.

Paraphrased I said "I have a 172, gonna have a need for a larger useful load soon, looking at X,Y and Z, any other suggestions". There's a post that says "I do just fine in my 172". Other than quoting them and saying "I'm very proud of you", there's no real purpose.

The guy is here for some help. Should he know it already? Yes, this shouldnt be very complicated except for those situation with some over the top TCDS. There's always a post or two like this where some one has to be a dick and instead of posting something helpful they just run their mouth.
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Informing someone they are behind the knowledge curve in an activity that will simply kill them for their ignorance and to get their **** together and look it up is actually better than playing to their laziness.
 
Fearless Tower said:
That's interesting....I've never seen a POH that was not serialized with the airframe and had the factory W&B data included. But, I've never owned a jet.
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Try flying something built before 1970.
 
Simple OP answered in reply one. Thread drags on for pages with people bickering over minutia. :rolleyes2:

I'd say lock the thread but this happens in almost every thread on this board.
 
Henning said:
You find the lists in Pt 61 and 91 of the FARs.
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Hello iHenning. Thanks for understanding the question. I couldn't find it in Part 61, and in part 91 I found 91.1033 which seems to apply to Fractional Ownership Managers. Even there, FAR didn't specify current charts. What am I missing?
 
petrolero said:
Simple OP answered in reply one. Thread drags on for pages with people bickering over minutia. :rolleyes2:

I'd say lock the thread but this happens in almost every thread on this board.
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Second best answer in this thread
 
gitmo234 said:
Second best answer in this thread
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Hi Gitmo. It's Chuckup. You see, it really wasn't answered. I asked where I can find the list. Got some good answers that at least cited a place. But I still haven't found the answer, even in those places in the FAR.
 
AirCoe said:
Hello iHenning. Thanks for understanding the question. I couldn't find it in Part 61, and in part 91 I found 91.1033 which seems to apply to Fractional Ownership Managers. Even there, FAR didn't specify current charts. What am I missing?
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You aren't required current charts or anything such, you need "All the information applicable to your flight." If you have that information in your head, that is sufficient. You will not find an answer that does not exist. If it is NOT in the FARs, it's not a regulation.
 
Required with citations here. The very first link. Charts??? Its getting harder and harder to even get paper charts today.
 
If there was a reference I missed it, but why is a photocopy of the required documentation no good to carry?
 
N801BH said:
First post.....

Welcome to POA....

:cheers::cheers:
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Thank you, thank you..... But hold the applause please, I'm not not even a Pilot of America yet. I'm more of a Student Pilot of my General Area.

Anyways, all I could find is the language requiring approved docs and an AC that didn't seem to define approved.

Also, I didn't realize this was a greeting at first. I went back and reread the first post and reply.:)
 
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k1500 said:
If there was a reference I missed it, but why is a photocopy of the required documentation no good to carry?
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Because the original could be revoked. Remember, the rule comes from way back, it doesn't actually apply anymore since a ramp or accident inspector can get the info on their phone or iPad, so as long as the stuff is valid, even if you don't have a required certificate, it'll be cool as long as you're cool. If you are a dickweed, then they can still pile it on.
 
Henning said:
... it'll be cool as long as you're cool. If you are a dickweed, then they can still pile it on.
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Being an Ahole never was my modus operandi, I'm not really sure why people still think that it's a valid option when dealing with regulatory or enforcment personnel, law enforcment, ect. It never works out near as well as a cool disposition and a decent conversation.
 
k1500 said:
Being an Ahole never was my modus operandi, I'm not really sure why people still think that it's a valid option when dealing with regulatory or enforcment personnel, law enforcment, ect. It never works out near as well as a cool disposition and a decent conversation.
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I've recently been through a 44709 ride, a completely pleasant experience. When I bellied in and the inspector walked up and asked me what happened, my first words to him were, "I forgot. Straight up **** up." He smiled, from then on it was just filling in the blanks on the forms and discussing the chain of events and true critical error I made in fatigue management that was the principle precipitory cause of the incident. When he told me the schedule of proceedings I told him that wouldn't work as I would be back in Italy, and would not return until after the suspension letter date. I asked if I could get it done that week around Airventure and he tried, but couldn't. To prevent the suspension letter, he suggested I put my certificate on deposit with the FSDO, and arrange the ride wherever I wanted whenever I got back. Since they were holding the cert, they would not have to go through the suspension process, so that's what I did. When I got back I scheduled with Philly to do the 709 ride and they were sent my cert. He had to cancel and there was a big CF going on at the FAA for awhile where they weren't able to do rides. The guy in Philly sent me back my cert saying "It wouldn't be right for me to hold your cert when I can't provide relief through the process." I contacted Miramar and tried but couldn't get a ride, and the primary guy said, "You have your cert back right? It's fully valid, I'll call you when we work this out." A couple months later I get scheduled with a local guy and schedule up a Seminole, the only retract I could find for rent around. Meet the inspector morning of the ride and find the plane had been taken by another CFI. That inspector called around to his contacts, and found me a plane to use. We had a nice .6 and 3 laps in the pattern and now I have good contact at 3 FSDOs.

Sometimes it pays to be nice, honest, and cooperate. Making mistakes and having accidents in and of themselves are actually not as big of a deal as the attitudes you display about it. Do you admit fault? Are you reflective? Have you learned the lessons that needed to be learned? Are you likely to do it again? The FAA guy point blank said that. "You made it easy to check all the boxes I had to check." At one point he was trying to satisfy the 709 requirements on an Oral basis, as the issue was not aircraft management, it was fatigue management. I put myself into a hard corner on fatigue.
 
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I have no idea what a 709 ride is, but the story was independent of that. It's good to know that an honest up front attitude was met with reasonable(perhaps beyond) accommodation.

I can only hope to have such considerate examiners when the time comes.
 
k1500 said:
I have no idea what a 709 ride is, but the story was independent of that. It's good to know that an honest up front attitude was met with reasonable(perhaps beyond) accommodation.

I can only hope to have such considerate examiners when the time comes.
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I've met a lot of Feds over the years, never met one that was a dick yet. Pretty much every one of them was an aviation enthusiast. A 709 ride is a recheck ride the FAA gives you when you **** up.
 
Henning said:
I've met a lot of Feds over the years, never met one that was a dick yet. Pretty much every one of them was an aviation enthusiast. A 709 ride is a recheck ride the FAA gives you when you **** up.
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To be specific any time they feel you may no longer meet the requirements of your certificate (which is pretty vague, they can do it on whatever whim). Certain incidents, whether pilot-induced or not, are guaranteed 709 rides: gear up landings, fuel exhaustion resulting in a crash...

I've never heard anybody who got a 709 ride ever complain too much about it. They're usually pretty brief and to the point reviews of the specific issue at hand.

The number comes from the us code section that permits the FAA to do this: 49 USC 44709. It used to be a 609 ride years ago before the sections got renumbered.
 
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