What Is Hard IFR?

Well usually I call something like 800 ft ceilings and 3 miles viz "gentleman's IFR"
 
I thinks it’s IMC with convective stuff hanging around. More than green radar returns, icing, etc. Where I live we get a marine layer often and I do approaches down to minimums all the time. I wouldn’t call it hard IFR at all.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
I saw someone on another forum call 600 foot ceilings hard IFR. I know the "hard" part of the term doesn't mean difficult, but I don't find 600 foot ceilings difficult. Maybe it's how much actual you have to fly through (length of time) during a particular flight? I like Doc's reply above.
 
Hard IFR for Chicago: solid white soup from 10k feet to 50 feet AGL with a 25 knot crosswind.

Hard IFR for Phoenix: there’s a cloud 10 miles southwest that may block the view of the mountain 30 miles out.


There’s no real definition, it’s all relative.
Disclaimer: post made by a vfr pilot.
 
I have no experience with such things, but I take it to be long periods of or enroute IMC, storms with turbulence and convection, embedded thunderstorms, icing or icing potential, actual precipitation, etc., as opposed to punching through a thin stratus layer to get up and down where everything else is smooth sailing in VMC.
 
WX at approach mins I'd say. If I'm not feeling proficient, LIFR is probably close enough of a definition. I'd probably take depth of the cloud layer into account in winter storms or when icing is a factor.
 
I think some people use "hard" IFR and "low" IFR interchangeably. Hard IFR may not be an official term, but most know what is meant.
 
Depends... are we in a Cessna 152 or a Boeing 737?
 
I always understood hard IFR to mean being in the soup continuously for extended periods with low ceilings. Not necessarily anything convective involved, but sometimes icing conditions present. Makes it exhausting maintaining the IFR instrument scan for hours. Windy conditions can also add to hard IFR making approaches more difficult when you've been in the clouds for two hours.
 
When I've heard or read folks use that term I've always taken it to mean
not VFR
more than just popping through a bit of scattered or broken stuff
basically IMC conditions
 
Dana said:
If it's hard (as in difficult) for the pilot...
Click to expand...

Yup! Also my definition of "hard" IFR. Hand-flying in bumpy clouds is a lot different than having a decent auto pilot and an IFR GPS to get down through a stable marine layer.
 
aterry1067 said:
Hard IFR for Chicago: solid white soup from 10k feet to 50 feet AGL with a 25 knot crosswind.

Hard IFR for Phoenix: there’s a cloud 10 miles southwest that may block the view of the mountain 30 miles out.


There’s no real definition, it’s all relative.
Disclaimer: post made by a vfr pilot.
Click to expand...
That's similar to SoCal IFR conditions!


Personally to me "hard IFR" is when you never come out on top, IE, you spend your whole flight in the clouds. If you're VFR for 2 hrs in the clear but have to spend 10 minutes breaking through a layer that's not hard IFR, even if that layer has 500' ceilings.

I've only ever had what I would call hard IFR once, in a steam gauge no AP PA-28-181 from the San Diego area up to the Bay Area. Never broke out on top.. just sat in the clouds the whole way. Departure was around 2,500 ceilings and arrival around 800' .. so nothing crazy low but several hours hand flying in clouds is exhausting
 
I've always thought of it as meaning solid imc. As in you are on instruments from a few hundred feet until you break out for landing. I also wouldn't call it hard unless it's under 600 ovc or so.
 
somorris said:
Hard IFR is (to me) when you might kill yourself if you screw up. Easy IFR is when you have plenty of room under the ceiling and over the top to fix your dumb mistakes.
Click to expand...
If getting to VMC is required to fix mistakes, one probably shouldn’t be in the clouds.
 
MauleSkinner said:
If getting to VMC is required to fix mistakes, one probably shouldn’t be in the clouds.
Click to expand...

I agree, and think those folks who "don't fly in hard IFR" probably need to do some refresher training. :)
 
Actually for me, it’s low IFR that has little chance of improving.
 
Hard IFR is picking up ice in a Cessna 172, and ATC will not give a higher altitude. Terrain denied lower.

Hard IFR is mountain turbulence that is giving up to 30 degree rolls.

Hard IFR is when both your destination and alternate weather are lowering rapidly, and you must select a new destination, single pilot, and no autopilot.

I would gladly do 3 hours in cloud, but smooth, in exchange for any of the above. The third of the above ended at exactly decision height of an ILS at the new destination. Happily, I had a qualified co pilot to do the work in finding a nearby airport with safe conditions for landing. Actually flying that day on an all stem guage panel was quite easy.

Regular continuous instrument conditions can be tiring, but if the scan is done regularly and completely, the plane should stay on airway and level, so stress should be low. Someone to talk with helps with the boredom, but the scan must go on. If your destination does not change, you have reviewed the approaches for the airport that you are landing at, so no surprises there, just routine. Briefing an approach where you had no intention of landing is hard in an aircraft without either auto pilot or skilled co pilot.
 
When going around due to ceiling/vis is a decent possibility is what i would call hard ifr. I've gone around legit 3 times in my life two of those where way more memorable than any "emergency" ive had in my life. Only reason the 2nd one wasn't was cause we had just gone missed and it was round two.
 
SkyChaser said:
I thought hard IFR was when the clouds froze solid... :D
Click to expand...

Which makes me think...... If clouds are visible moisture, why don't they freeze solid and fall out of the sky.??

Breaking news.!! The city of TugBussle was destroyed today when the cloudy overcast froze solid and fell out of the sky. Details at 5....
 
Zeldman said:
Which makes me think...... If clouds are visible moisture, why don't they freeze solid and fall out of the sky.??

Breaking news.!! The city of TugBussle was destroyed today when the cloudy overcast froze solid and fell out of the sky. Details at 5....
Click to expand...

They do freeze. I believe that's called snow, ice pellets, and hail.

"In meteorology, a cloud is an aerosol consisting of a visible mass of minute liquid droplets, frozen crystals, or other particles suspended in the atmosphere of a planetary body or similar space."
​
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud

I'm guessing that there isn't enough attractive force between the minute particles to form solid masses larger than hailstones. Another possible explanation is that as the particles grow larger, they become heavy enough to fall in spite of the rising air before they reach a larger size.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top