What is happening to us?

Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
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11,571
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Ingleside, TX
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Display name:
Jay Honeck
Gawd, I made the mistake of checking out the AOPA forums, for the first time in prolly a year.

What a wasteland of prostate problems, restless leg syndrome questions, and bitching about ADS-B! That group has become a ridiculous parody of GA, apparently where all the geriatric former pilots go to ***** about life.

Sad.

It gets worse. We just bought a hangar. It's at a great airport, with a good amount of social activities, and some people even flying regularly.

Mary and I are the young kids. I am 56 years old. WTF?

We have had some gorgeous flying weather on the coast. 70 degrees, with bright sun and light winds. Looking at traffic, other than the usual smattering of Navy trainers and an occasional bizjet, the sky is empty.

We have dozens of airplanes in hangars at TFP. We have dozens of airports all around. Where IS everyone?

More to the point: Why do people own airplanes, with all the attendant fixed costs, and NOT fly them? What, exactly, is the point?

Sorry, I just get frustrated with so-called pilots who never fly. Even in the "piloting" groups we belong to, no one flies*! And then, in the very next breath, they lament the closing of airports, airport restaurants, FBOs, etc, as if there is no connection between these actions.

Or, rather, inactions.

Get off your butts and FLY, people.

* - With one qualifying exception: RV pilots.
 
Jay Honeck said:
We have dozens of airplanes in hangars at TFP. We have dozens of airports all around. Where IS everyone?

More to the point: Why do people own airplanes, with all the attendant fixed costs, and NOT fly them? What, exactly, is the point?
Click to expand...

A big one: Insurance;

Just think how great it would be, if you could rent your plane to anyone who is suitably qualified to be PIC.

And how amazing it would be, if you could just walk to an airport, rent a plane, and fly.

Now you have to go through a club/FBO/flight school, pay for an hour or three of some worthless instructors time for your 15th C172 checkride, because they say they want to see you fly(read: they want to milk an hour off you) even if you have 100s of hours on type and current.
The checkout process is so tedious its just easier to sit back, enjoy the weather, and have a cold one.

I hope Openairplane will change this.
 
I'm the last of the local single people I know, and the guys have all been castrated by their wives. "I'd like to go with you but the wife says..."

I'm not one to just go fart around in the pattern or go for a 50 mile food run. If I'm gonna go somewhere, I'm gonna go somewhere. But I've grown tired of solo flights. I've flown to and landed in all of the contiguous 48 solo. I've been to both coasts and the Gulf solo. It gets boring as hell to go somewhere, eat dinner alone, sleep in the hotel alone, and then get up and fly another 500 miles alone. I have a map of the US above my desk at work, and pretty much look at it every day and think, maybe I'll fly to (pick a spot) this weekend. "**** it, I'm not going to spend the night in a hotel in (pick a spot) alone this weekend, I'll save the money."
 
EdFred said:
I'm the last of the local single people I know, and the guys have all been castrated by their wives. "I'd like to go with you but the wife says..."

I'm not one to just go fart around in the pattern or go for a 50 mile food run. If I'm gonna go somewhere, I'm gonna go somewhere. But I've grown tired of solo flights. I've flown to and landed in all of the contiguous 48 solo. I've been to both coasts and the Gulf solo. It gets boring as hell to go somewhere, eat dinner alone, sleep in the hotel alone, and then get up and fly another 500 miles alone. I have a map of the US above my desk at work, and pretty much look at it every day and think, maybe I'll fly to (pick a spot) this weekend. "**** it, I'm not going to spend the night in a hotel in (pick a spot) alone this weekend, I'll save the money."
Click to expand...

My wife is the opposite. She always wants to go to new places. Problem is plane availability.

The field is full of planes which just stand there, but the local FBO wont budge on their 4 hour/day minimums.
Even better, when the FBO planes just sit there as well.
Frustrating.
 
mtuomi said:
My wife is the opposite. She always wants to go to new places. Problem is plane availability.

The field is full of planes which just stand there, but the local FBO wont budge on their 4 hour/day minimums.
Even better, when the FBO planes just sit there as well.
Frustrating.
Click to expand...

When I rented, I usually got them to waive the n hour/day minimums. Of course I also knew how much they were being rented and would show them they'd make more money if they let me put 6 hours on over the next 3 days than renting it out for the 2 hours it would get flown on Saturday.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Gawd, I made the mistake of checking out the AOPA forums, for the first time in prolly a year.

What a wasteland of prostate problems, restless leg syndrome questions, and bitching about ADS-B! That group has become a ridiculous parody of GA, apparently where all the geriatric former pilots go to ***** about life.

Sad.

It gets worse. We just bought a hangar. It's at a great airport, with a good amount of social activities, and some people even flying regularly.

Mary and I are the young kids. I am 56 years old. WTF?

We have had some gorgeous flying weather on the coast. 70 degrees, with bright sun and light winds. Looking at traffic, other than the usual smattering of Navy trainers and an occasional bizjet, the sky is empty.

We have dozens of airplanes in hangars at TFP. We have dozens of airports all around. Where IS everyone?

More to the point: Why do people own airplanes, with all the attendant fixed costs, and NOT fly them? What, exactly, is the point?

Sorry, I just get frustrated with so-called pilots who never fly. Even in the "piloting" groups we belong to, no one flies*! And then, in the very next breath, they lament the closing of airports, airport restaurants, FBOs, etc, as if there is no connection between these actions.

Or, rather, inactions.

Get off your butts and FLY, people.

* - With one qualifying exception: RV pilots.
Click to expand...

You were finally able to buy a hangar down there? That surprises me more than anything.
 
Jay Honeck said:
It gets worse. We just bought a hangar. It's at a great airport, with a good amount of social activities, and some people even flying regularly.
Click to expand...
Is this hangar so that your aviator guests can park their plane while they borrow your Lexus and stay at your Inn?
 
Face it vanilla GA flying just ain't all that fun. Figuring out how to fly is fun, having the freedom dream be alive because you own an airplane is cool. But actually flying it meh.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Mary and I are the young kids. I am 56 years old. WTF?
Click to expand...

I am in my thirties and I have definitely noticed the age gap when at the airport.

That being said, these clear days have hidden some nasty bumps. Today looks pretty nice though. Of course, I am at work. Hopefully the weather can hold out till Friday.
 
After 6 months on the waiting list, I just moved into a shared hangar with 6 planes.

Of the other 5 in the hangar, only one shows any signs of activity in the last 12+ months (and likely much longer, based on thickness of dust and lack of air in the tires.)

One of them is a sweet looking C-180, that I am guessing has the "lost his medical" type of owner.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Gawd, I made the mistake of checking out the AOPA forums, for the first time in prolly a year.

What a wasteland of prostate problems, restless leg syndrome questions, and bitching about ADS-B! That group has become a ridiculous parody of GA, apparently where all the geriatric former pilots go to ***** about life.

Sad.
Click to expand...

And that's different from here how?

Hmm, since Doc. Chien closed up shop here the Red Board is the only place to get medical certification advice.

Honestly, I mostly can't tell the difference between here and the red board. The Blue Board tends to be more juvenile witha greater number of trolls, mostly due to the laissez faire approach to moderating here. I'd guess among the regulars, there's about a 50% overlap between the boards.

That said, I'd be flying right now if my plane wasn't down for annual. I put about 150 hours on it last year, so I feel I'm getting my money's worth.
 
I work, so flying is usually confined to weekends. Unlike some, I fly for the therapeutic value. I love flying, but not so much droning along on long cross countries. Unless something prohibits it, I fly about every weekend.
 
Jay Honeck said:
We have had some gorgeous flying weather on the coast. 70 degrees, with bright sun and light winds. Looking at traffic, other than the usual smattering of Navy trainers and an occasional bizjet, the sky is empty.

We have dozens of airplanes in hangars at TFP. We have dozens of airports all around. Where IS everyone?
Click to expand...

They're all in SoCal. The other day I flew KMYF to KSDM for some pattern work, and at any given time the TCAS (even at 10 nm) was lit up with 10+ targets. And the lady just wouldn't shut up! Traffic, traffic! Jeez! Gimme a break!

So enjoy the solitude (and silence)...

Edit: This was in the middle of the week.
 
The 3 closest hangars next to mine have nice airplanes inside them. I have not seen one of them even get started in the past 2 years. Heck, I have only seen one guy visit his airplane once in that time frame.
 
I haven't flown in a few months. Wisconsin winters and having a 45 minute drive doesn't help. But I have been out there to fill up the air in the tires, do an oil change, and stuff like that.
 
bigred177 said:
You were finally able to buy a hangar down there? That surprises me more than anything.
Click to expand...
At TP McCampbell, (KTFP), 9 NM away.

There is no hope of getting a hangar on the island. After 5 years, we gave up -- and couldn't be happier.

KTFP is professionally run, expanding, and building hangars as fast as they can. It is simply wonderful to be based at a real airport again.
 
JOhnH said:
Is this hangar so that your aviator guests can park their plane while they borrow your Lexus and stay at your Inn?
Click to expand...
Well, I've even let a couple of friends stay AT the hangar. :)

But no, it's not for hotel guests. It's not on the island.
 
Brad Z said:
And that's different from here how?

Hmm, since Doc. Chien closed up shop here the Red Board is the only place to get medical certification advice.

Honestly, I mostly can't tell the difference between here and the red board. The Blue Board tends to be more juvenile witha greater number of trolls, mostly due to the laissez faire approach to moderating here. I'd guess among the regulars, there's about a 50% overlap between the boards.

That said, I'd be flying right now if my plane wasn't down for annual. I put about 150 hours on it last year, so I feel I'm getting my money's worth.
Click to expand...
We moderate based on our Rules of Conduct. See something that's not compliant with the RoC, report it, and it will be handled provided the council agrees.
 
Today I am sanding drywall in the Piper Room I am renovating. It is my least favorite, most mindless job, and, therefore, good for deep thinking.

Or, as close to deep thinking as I ever get nowadays. ;)

Anyway, I've been trying to figure out why all of this feels familiar, like I've seen it before. It finally dawned on me...

Hospice. When my mom was moving from the care facility (that no one ever leaves on their own) to come home to die, I heard the same attitude.

The same morbid jokes. The same quiet determination.

The same fear that it's all really going to end.

GA is in hospice care. :(
 
Jay Honeck said:
Today I am sanding drywall in the Piper Room I am renovating. It is my least favorite, most mindless job, and, therefore, good for deep thinking.

Or, as close to deep thinking as I ever get nowadays. ;)

Anyway, I've been trying to figure out why all of this feels familiar, like I've seen it before. It finally dawned on me...

Hospice. When my mom was moving from the care facility (that no one ever leaves on their own) to come home to die, I heard the same attitude.

The same morbid jokes. The same quiet determination.

The same fear that it's all really going to end.

GA is in hospice care. :(
Click to expand...

The same drama. :rolleyes:
 
jesse said:
We moderate based on our Rules of Conduct. See something that's not compliant with the RoC, report it, and it will be handled provided the council agrees.
Click to expand...

Not complaining, just pointing out a fact.

I should also mention that Red Board doesn't have a "hangar talk" forum, so it lacks much of the silliness that we see here from certain regular posters.
 
Flying Viking said:
They're all in SoCal. The other day I flew KMYF to KSDM for some pattern work, and at any given time the TCAS (even at 10 nm) was lit up with 10+ targets. And the lady just wouldn't shut up! Traffic, traffic! Jeez! Gimme a break!

So enjoy the solitude (and silence)...

Edit: This was in the middle of the week.
Click to expand...
Well, in fairness, the same can be said in major metro areas here. When we flew into Houston ' s Class B last week, our screens were alive with traffic.

Of course, Houston has more airports than the entire State of Iowa. Given that fact, traffic was pretty light.

And only 3 of us showed up for a fairly major fly-in event at the 1940 Air Terminal Museum.

3. :(
 
jesse said:
We moderate based on our Rules of Conduct. See something that's not compliant with the RoC, report it, and it will be handled provided the council agrees.
Click to expand...

I find this not quite accurate. I've reported Florida Cracker many times for blatant ToC violations and haven't seen any action taken. Maybe SZ is a safe zone where personal attacks are allowed?
 
Captain said:
I find this not quite accurate. I've reported Florida Cracker many times for blatant ToC violations and haven't seen any action taken. Maybe SZ is a safe zone where personal attacks are allowed?
Click to expand...


HA!
I once reported something in the SZ and I got the response: "it is the SZ fire back"
 
Captain said:
I find this not quite accurate. I've reported Florida Cracker many times for blatant ToC violations and haven't seen any action taken. Maybe SZ is a safe zone where personal attacks are allowed?
Click to expand...
Over the years, I've had my share of run-ins with people who have attacked me personally on POA. I've also reported people for violations, and been ignored.

Or, at least, it seemed like I was ignored. Perhaps there was some quiet action behind the scenes? Dunno, but the problem was resolved.

Still, all things considered, I would rather have the moderators play fast and loose on the side of freedom of speech. I participate in other forums that are strict in the extreme, to the point where a negative PIREP on a product will be deleted, and that's just as bad.
 
Most young people I know can't really afford it or at least would have a hard time finding room in the budget. If they could they'd be renting or in a club...

Then consider for a family of 4 + full fuel & bags for a few days is going to be very close if not over gross weight on the most common 4 seat GA planes.

Oh it's expensive.

Also, it's a gigantic pain in the butt. Takes darn near a year for most people to get a PPL and somewhere around $8-10k. Unless you're wanting a career, you are probably going to want the airplane for going places. So now VFR you finally launch with your family towards a vacation spot.... a day late because low ceilings. Then when you get there after spending 4x more on fuel than the car would have cost you rent a car. You have your fun, then it's time to home but.... noooope it's overcast 800 so we're stuck for another day. Then the next day it's supposed to be VFR in the morning so you go to the FBO and turn in your rental car. Oops still no go, but it's supposed to clear up. So you sit in the FBO for 5 hours with your ****ed off family until the weather finally clears and go home... pay another massive fuel bill, etc.

Well ok that was a bad trip... next month wow a week of clear weather all over the country. You hop in and go, have a great time, get in the plane to go and... no start. Your magneto is dead. Oh and it's saturday and no mechanics will be around till Mon morning. Another 2 days stuck.... then $1500 in repairs later you can finally go home.

The point being with all the expense and effort and difficulty you have to REALLY want to fly.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Gawd, I made the mistake of checking out the AOPA forums, for the first time in prolly a year.

What a wasteland of prostate problems, restless leg syndrome questions, and bitching about ADS-B! That group has become a ridiculous parody of GA, apparently where all the geriatric former pilots go to ***** about life.

Sad.
Click to expand...

Sit around any airport around my location and you'll hear the same ol' rhetoric day in and day out, seven days a week. All I ever hear about is how good it used to be, pilots today know nothing about flying, and how doing away with the third class medical is the most critical issue in flying today. I say BS. I said it in another thread and I'll say it again...I hope when my time comes, I'll be smart enough to know that it's time to hang it up.

My medical renewal this year was by far the most thorough I've had in awhile, and I will admit it, I had a scare. Luckily it was found to be nothing but my diet causing bad readings. If I can pass the medical, so can most other people, I guarantee it. If you can't, you may not need to be flying. I do not agree with the AOPA agenda when it comes to this topic. Are there exceptions? Always. But not typically, at least not from what I see everyday. Do the rules need re-examination when it comes to the third class medical? Probably. That I can get behind. Airspace everywhere is getting busier though, even the uncontrolled kind.
 
As for the AOPA forum, it felt like I had walked into my dad's lunch crowd when he was in his 70s. All I heard about was how this hurt, or that didn't work, and their doctors appointments.

It's the same over there. Oh, and how great round gauges and VORs are. :)

That's the great part about the RV forums. Those guys are constantly innovating, finding new ways to do stuff. Sure, there are old guys there, but they really fly! Like, a lot.

Oh, well, I was just making an observation. We all need to fly more if we want to keep the infrastructure alive.
 
Oh and yeah Re: the age....

I went to a fly-in back in the fall... which happened on a rainy day and everyone drove. The only people there even close to my age were the line guys who worked there. I'm in my early 30s.
 
cowman said:
You hop in and go, have a great time, get in the plane to go and... no start. Your magneto is dead. Oh and it's saturday and no mechanics will be around till Mon morning. Another 2 days stuck.... then $1500 in repairs later you can finally go home.
Click to expand...

That sucks, but **** happens when traveling

your car can break down on sunday, far from home

you could get hit by another driver and have to get it towed and find a hotel

your airline flight could get cancelled or delayed causing you to miss your connection, and then you have to find a hotel and spend hours on the phone with airline people trying to get a flight out
 
It does but car trouble? I can recall 2 incidents of car trouble in nearly 15 years of car travel and I was able to fix both problems with what I had on hand. I've not had a canceled or delayed airline flight yet... but I don't fly airlines very often.

GA so far I've had one stranding and a scrubbed departure due to mechanical issues. That doesn't count all the weather related canceled trips/standings... and I have only had my private since summer. It's a royal pain in the butt, but I like to fly so I still do it. I am currently studying here and there for my instrument rating. Decided to wait till late spring/early summer when I can commit to one school/instructor for a few months and get it knocked out relatively fast.
 
Jay Honeck said:
At TP McCampbell, (KTFP), 9 NM away.

There is no hope of getting a hangar on the island. After 5 years, we gave up -- and couldn't be happier.

KTFP is professionally run, expanding, and building hangars as fast as they can. It is simply wonderful to be based at a real airport again.
Click to expand...

I'm glad to hear it. Now you just need to buy a boat so you don't have to wait on the ferry ;)
 
Captain said:
I find this not quite accurate. I've reported Florida Cracker many times for blatant ToC violations and haven't seen any action taken. Maybe SZ is a safe zone where personal attacks are allowed?
Click to expand...

Or maybe the moderation is viewpoint-based? :dunno:
 
bigred177 said:
I'm glad to hear it. Now you just need to buy a boat so you don't have to wait on the ferry ;)
Click to expand...
Flying back and forth works best. :)

Motorcycle is next best. You can ride straight to the front of any line, without delay.
 
cowman said:
Most young people I know can't really afford it or at least would have a hard time finding room in the budget. If they could they'd be renting or in a club...

Then consider for a family of 4 + full fuel & bags for a few days is going to be very close if not over gross weight on the most common 4 seat GA planes.

Oh it's expensive.

Also, it's a gigantic pain in the butt. Takes darn near a year for most people to get a PPL and somewhere around $8-10k. Unless you're wanting a career, you are probably going to want the airplane for going places. So now VFR you finally launch with your family towards a vacation spot.... a day late because low ceilings. Then when you get there after spending 4x more on fuel than the car would have cost you rent a car. You have your fun, then it's time to home but.... noooope it's overcast 800 so we're stuck for another day. Then the next day it's supposed to be VFR in the morning so you go to the FBO and turn in your rental car. Oops still no go, but it's supposed to clear up. So you sit in the FBO for 5 hours with your ****ed off family until the weather finally clears and go home... pay another massive fuel bill, etc.

Well ok that was a bad trip... next month wow a week of clear weather all over the country. You hop in and go, have a great time, get in the plane to go and... no start. Your magneto is dead. Oh and it's saturday and no mechanics will be around till Mon morning. Another 2 days stuck.... then $1500 in repairs later you can finally go home.

The point being with all the expense and effort and difficulty you have to REALLY want to fly.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. It's extremely time and money consuming not to mention there are some concepts and information you need to know that can be very confusing to a lot of people (including me!)
 
Captain said:
I find this not quite accurate. I've reported Florida Cracker many times for blatant ToC violations and haven't seen any action taken. Maybe SZ is a safe zone where personal attacks are allowed?
Click to expand...

SixPapaCharlie said:
HA!
I once reported something in the SZ and I got the response: "it is the SZ fire back"
Click to expand...


The Spin Zone is not moderated. We all have better things to do with our time then attempt to manage the maturity level of grown adults. If you don't like it don't look at it. There's a reason it's opt in. There is a strong chance the spin zone might cease to exist permanently.

For more information on spin zone rules see:
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30539
 
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