What is happening to us?

JoeSelch said:
Yep. .
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Man, I don't understand you guys that talk about flying being "boring" -- as if flinging yourself bodily through space could be dull!

I will admit that flying had become routine, before we bought our RV, but that's not the same as boring. But I had taken driving certificated trucks around the sky about as far as I could.

Now, with the -8A, every flight is like having a drink with Angelina Jolie -- intoxicating, exciting, and always a thrill!
:)

How can you NOT be excited, flying such a machine?

a69229a7c88db690399622983623f889.jpg
 
Jay Honeck said:
Man, I don't understand you guys that talk about flying being "boring" -- as if flinging yourself bodily through space could be dull!

I will admit that flying had become routine, before we bought our RV, but that's not the same as boring. But I had taken driving certificated trucks around the sky about as far as I could.

Now, with the -8A, every flight is like having a drink with Angelina Jolie -- intoxicating, exciting, and always a thrill!
:)

How can you NOT be excited, flying such a machine?

a69229a7c88db690399622983623f889.jpg
Click to expand...

I do enjoy my plane and haven't had eyes for another since purchasing it.
But, this type of flying just simply isn't as exciting as I'd dreamed it would be.
Fortunately, there are other more thrilling ways to fly and room enough in the sky for all.

I'm glad you're enjoying your plane.
 
colojo said:
Well said, Ben. I've been flying for 30 years and it never gets old to me, either.

Yesterday I flew for the first time in two months due to work, weather, and both birds being in the shop. Took my RV-8 up for an hour on an absolutely perfect, clear and smooth winter day here in Denver. After tooling around out in the boonies for a while I came back and finished with three perfect wheel landings. The thrill and feeling of accomplishment are still with me the morning after, and I can't wait for my next flight!
Click to expand...

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
My hangar rent runs me about half the value of my airplane every year. If I *don't* fly, the wife may start wondering about whether it's worth it.

Wait until the ADS-B bill comes in.

Ron Wanttaja
 
BigBadLou said:
Ah,mso you opted for a push button ignition switch, gotcha. I am used to even experimentals having a regular keyed magswitch.
Click to expand...

Mine just has a push button too...

The doors do lock though, but if can get in, figure out how to configure the fuel valves, ignition system, start sequence, etc etc.... You can steal the plane........

But then you have to figure out how to take off in a 1100 lb plane with 400 horsepower under the cowling...... My bet is you better get it right, or not survive the crash cause when I catch you,, you will die...:yes:
 
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N801BH said:
Mine just has a push button too...

The doors do lock though, but if can get in, figure out how to configure the fuel valves, ignition system, start sequence, etc etc.... You can steal the plane........

But then you have to figure out how to tale off in a 1100 lb plane with 400 horsepower under the cowling...... My bet is you better get it right, or not survive the crash cause when I catch you,, you will die...:yes:
Click to expand...
lol!

When we bought the -8A, my RV guru told me to never, ever lock the plane. In his words: "If they want your avionics, they're gonna get them anyway. You DON'T want to ever replace this sliding canopy!"

Makes sense to me. ;-)
 
Jay Honeck said:
Man, I don't understand you guys that talk about flying being "boring" -- as if flinging yourself bodily through space could be dull!

I will admit that flying had become routine, before we bought our RV, but that's not the same as boring. But I had taken driving certificated trucks around the sky about as far as I could.

Now, with the -8A, every flight is like having a drink with Angelina Jolie -- intoxicating, exciting, and always a thrill!
:)

How can you NOT be excited, flying such a machine?

a69229a7c88db690399622983623f889.jpg
Click to expand...



You're lucky. You have a wife who loves to fly. Some of us don't and it can make it a lonely and grinding en-devour sometimes.

Mine came up with her solution. "Every penny you spend on your airplane you give to me too."

So flying costs me double. :yikes:;)
 
Jay Honeck said:
I will admit that flying had become routine, before we bought our RV, but that's not the same as boring. But I had taken driving certificated trucks around the sky about as far as I could.

Now, with the -8A, every flight is like having a drink with Angelina Jolie -- intoxicating, exciting, and always a thrill!
:)

How can you NOT be excited, flying such a machine?
Click to expand...

Well, that's the key. Buying something fun, aerobatic, and FUN! I really like the RV's.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Well, I've found some breathing room by undershooting housing and transportation costs. I can't speak as to why that choice is considered blasphemy by the middle class household. I don't consider 200-300AMU housing and one to two 35AMU new vehicles a basic human need, yet that is the very lifestyle snapshot everybody and their grandmother aspires to in this Country regardless of socioeconomic background. I get that we're all innocent in Shawshank and nobody would allocute publicly to that want, but that's the reality of the median household in this Country. Personally I blame beta males and entitled American women run amok, but that's for another thread.

Flying's not the only avocation that potentially requires 10-20K/yr in expenditures. Just sayin'...

/devilsadvocate
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This is it. In reality we are lemmings. Pick the topic, but most of us try to be "better" than the "Jones'" and end up being exactly like everyone else.

I had an interesting conversation with an instructor I was training with. He basically said "Hey, let's fly to Chicago". In the Bo - it would have been about 2.5 hours each way - we had plenty of time. My mind just didn't work that way at the time (still doesn't quite work that way). With an airplane, you can - on a whim - have lunch on a beach that afternoon. Or fly off for a skiing "weekend vacation" at the last minute.

If GA is to come back - the above mindset has to be in the picture somewhere.

(and yea, I'll try the acro at some point - looks cool!)

Time to go fly ...
 
Flying Viking said:
Or maybe the moderation is viewpoint-based? :dunno:
Click to expand...

Nope. Read the RoC, and you'll see the rules. The MC is a pretty diverse bunch, and IMHO, pretty fair-minded.

Many don't realize that we only take action based upon bad-post reports, not unilaterally (as if we'd have time for THAT), and there is good cause for that in law.

hindsight2020 said:
Well, I've found some breathing room by undershooting housing and transportation costs. I can't speak as to why that choice is considered blasphemy by the middle class household. I don't consider 200-300AMU housing and one to two 35AMU new vehicles a basic human need, yet that is the very lifestyle snapshot everybody and their grandmother aspires to in this Country regardless of socioeconomic background. I get that we're all innocent in Shawshank and nobody would allocute publicly to that want, but that's the reality of the median household in this Country. Personally I blame beta males and entitled American women run amok, but that's for another thread.

Flying's not the only avocation that potentially requires 10-20K/yr in expenditures. Just sayin'...

/devilsadvocate
Click to expand...

Well-said. I know I don't spend more on flying than my devoted golfer friends spend on that ridiculous pastime.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Gawd, I made the mistake of checking out the AOPA forums, for the first time in prolly a year.

What a wasteland of prostate problems, restless leg syndrome questions, and bitching about ADS-B! That group has become a ridiculous parody of GA, apparently where all the geriatric former pilots go to ***** about life.

Sad.

It gets worse. We just bought a hangar. It's at a great airport, with a good amount of social activities, and some people even flying regularly.

Mary and I are the young kids. I am 56 years old. WTF?

We have had some gorgeous flying weather on the coast. 70 degrees, with bright sun and light winds. Looking at traffic, other than the usual smattering of Navy trainers and an occasional bizjet, the sky is empty.

We have dozens of airplanes in hangars at TFP. We have dozens of airports all around. Where IS everyone?

More to the point: Why do people own airplanes, with all the attendant fixed costs, and NOT fly them? What, exactly, is the point?

Sorry, I just get frustrated with so-called pilots who never fly. Even in the "piloting" groups we belong to, no one flies*! And then, in the very next breath, they lament the closing of airports, airport restaurants, FBOs, etc, as if there is no connection between these actions.

Or, rather, inactions.

Get off your butts and FLY, people.

* - With one qualifying exception: RV pilots.
Click to expand...
Where is everybody? My guess:

- Lack of training money. Our GA population got a jump start from lots of returning veterans taking advantage of a generous GI bill. The current GI bill doesn't pay for flight training unless you're going to an approved college in pursuit of a degree, or you already have a private pilot and you're wanting to add IR or something else.

- Lack of flying money. It isn't a $100 hamburger any more. Airplane owners aren't always rich. A lot of people that could afford or justify owning a plane once have since found themselves on the back side of a recession curve or industry upheaval. Toss in a larger than expected annual or engine issue and you end up with a hanger full of dreams and a pocket full of lint.

- Since fewer young adults can afford the lessons, the pilot population as a whole is getting older. The longer you live, the more banged up you become, inside and out. A lot of those pilots have either self grounded or lost their medical.

- Sometimes it's easier to pay a hangar fee than it is to admit that you aren't ever going to fly again. The first stage of grief is denial. It isn't until you get to the last stage that you accept the truth and are able to effectively deal with it.
 
I fly all the time, just for the sake of aviation. Meanwhile, there are several planes at my home field that haven't been out of their hangars in months or even years. I don't get it.

Oh, and someday I will fly to Port A!
 
The average age of pilots is increasing, but not all that rapidly, the age for private and sport pilots has increased about two years in the last decade. What's more interesting to me is the age grouping statistics, which you can find here: http://www.faa.gov/data_research/av...l_airmen_statistics/2013/media/Air12-2013.xls . The majority of student pilots are under 30, and by a considerable number. Hopefully they're not all planning on getting flying jobs in North America, or else the vast majority of them are going to be disappointed.
 
ETres said:
Oh, and someday I will fly to Port A!
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Hah, I've been there. It was my longest cross-country, ever, still unsurpassed. On the way there, I flew into a snow patch and had to go on instruments. That was pretty fun, for loose definition of fun, considering that I'm not Instrument rated. But within some 100 miles the ground became brown, and then green! I knew I was flying into Texas. Flying through Hondo, I heard Chinese students reporting positions (well, I think they meant to report positions). Then I started feeling moisture and cloud bases got lower and lower. Definitely Texas.
 
zaitcev said:
[snip]On the way there, I flew into a snow patch and had to go on instruments. That was pretty fun, for loose definition of fun, considering that I'm not Instrument rated. [snip]
Click to expand...

Do you know the difference between terror and exhilaration?



Exhilaration you paid money for.
:D
John
 
wanttaja said:
Wait until the ADS-B bill comes in.

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

You and me both Ron. I can't fly to a number of my usual destinations without it, and I doubt my airplane would work at all as a travel tool without it. But I bet the cost will be a significant fraction of the aircraft's worth. I just don't know.

Then again, if I do it my airplane might recover quite a bit of value after 2020. I bet a LOT of owners don't, and those airframes will likely fall out of utility and out of the market.
 
Anthony said:
Well, that's the key. Buying something fun, aerobatic, and FUN! I really like the RV's.
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There are many ways to skin that cat - my p*ssy doesn't have an engine but long glorious wings and a sleek white exterior.

I will always be a sailplane pilot in my mind's eye but flying the RV10 around is my current joy. It's just truck driving but I built the truck and I like all the shiny buttons, its greasy underside, the view out of its windows and all the great places it takes us.

I still stand by the thought that we are participating in a vintage hobby, not unlike vintage cars or sailing. It's not leading/bleeding edge stuff, it will never appeal to the masses, it's expensive, only marginally useful but fun as hell for those in the know. Let's enjoy it for what it is rather than what it was.

Fly on!
 
steingar said:
You and me both Ron. I can't fly to a number of my usual destinations without it, and I doubt my airplane would work at all as a travel tool without it. But I bet the cost will be a significant fraction of the aircraft's worth. I just don't know.
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My airplane's no travel tool, but I'm based just 10 miles from a Class B airport and, with an electrical system, it can't avoid the transponder requirement.

However...I'm contemplating building my own larger-fuselage Fly Baby designed to use existing Fly Baby components. New fuselage, existing wings, tail, engine, and hardware, and pull the generator off the engine to meet the transponder exemption for airplanes without electrical systems. New license, of course.

It's pretty damn silly when I can build a new airplane for less than the ADS would cost....

Ron Wanttaja
 
txflyer said:
You're lucky. You have a wife who loves to fly. Some of us don't and it can make it a lonely and grinding en-devour sometimes.

Mine came up with her solution. "Every penny you spend on your airplane you give to me too."

So flying costs me double. :yikes:;)
Click to expand...
This resistance is something I've never quite understood, probably because I've been blessed with a wife who got her ticket.

But before that happened, I made sure we flew where SHE wanted to go. One of my first cross-country flights was to Branson, MO (from our home base in Racine, WI), which was a destination she picked.

I had MAYBE 90 hours in my logbook. In a rental Cherokee 140, with two little kids in the back seat, it was an epic flight.

Did I care about Branson? Heck, no. But it's where Mary wanted to go.

The flight was beautiful, we had a good time, and that trip cemented the pattern in her mind. Airplanes were actually time machines that let us get out and back in a tiny fraction of the time it would take by car!

We never looked back, after that. For 20 years we have roamed the continent in four different planes, all VFR by choice. I would not change a thing, nor would I trade flying for any other activity or property.

Anyway, barring a fear of flying, I think the key to spousal approval is spousal inclusion.
 
Jay Honeck said:
This resistance is something I've never quite understood, probably because I've been blessed with a wife who got her ticket.

But before that happened, I made sure we flew where SHE wanted to go. One of my first cross-country flights was to Branson, MO (from our home base in Racine, WI), which was a destination she picked.

I had MAYBE 90 hours in my logbook. In a rental Cherokee 140, with two little kids in the back seat, it was an epic flight.

Did I care about Branson? Heck, no. But it's where Mary wanted to go.

The flight was beautiful, we had a good time, and that trip cemented the pattern in her mind. Airplanes were actually time machines that let us get out and back in a tiny fraction of the time it would take by car!

We never looked back, after that. For 20 years we have roamed the continent in four different planes, all VFR by choice. I would not change a thing, nor would I trade flying for any other activity or property.

Anyway, barring a fear of flying, I think the key to spousal approval is spousal inclusion.
Click to expand...

You're a wise man.
 
wanttaja said:
My airplane's no travel tool, but I'm based just 10 miles from a Class B airport and, with an electrical system, it can't avoid the transponder requirement.

However...I'm contemplating building my own larger-fuselage Fly Baby designed to use existing Fly Baby components. New fuselage, existing wings, tail, engine, and hardware, and pull the generator off the engine to meet the transponder exemption for airplanes without electrical systems. New license, of course.

It's pretty damn silly when I can build a new airplane for less than the ADS would cost....

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...

Amen to that brother.......:cheers:
 
Bill Watson said:
I still stand by the thought that we are participating in a vintage hobby, not unlike vintage cars or sailing. It's not leading/bleeding edge stuff, it will never appeal to the masses, it's expensive, only marginally useful but fun as hell for those in the know. Let's enjoy it for what it is rather than what it was.
Click to expand...

That's a good way to look at it. I mentioned it in another thread, but this is the year I get a glider rating. I've been meaning to do that for a long time.
 
Future looks bright to me. Always be able to afford a new Speed/paraglider. Will always be able to fly it somewhere, legal or not. I've stolen altitude before I can do it again. Hows that go? When flying is outlawed(outpriced?) only outlaws will fly. Course it helps to be fit if you are stealing altitude...
 
ClimbnSink said:
Future looks bright to me. Always be able to afford a new Speed/paraglider. Will always be able to fly it somewhere, legal or not. I've stolen altitude before I can do it again. Hows that go? When flying is outlawed(outpriced?) only outlaws will fly. Course it helps to be fit if you are stealing altitude...
Click to expand...

:dunno: Maybe I shouldn't have had that beer or two at lunch :rofl: I don't understand your post AT ALL.
 
wanttaja said:
My airplane's no travel tool, but I'm based just 10 miles from a Class B airport and, with an electrical system, it can't avoid the transponder requirement.

However...I'm contemplating building my own larger-fuselage Fly Baby designed to use existing Fly Baby components. New fuselage, existing wings, tail, engine, and hardware, and pull the generator off the engine to meet the transponder exemption for airplanes without electrical systems. New license, of course.

It's pretty damn silly when I can build a new airplane for less than the ADS would cost....

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...
Hmm..you can build a new airplane for less than $5,800?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/trigtt22.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/trig11-13061.php?clickkey=1623383
 
jesse said:
Hmm..you can build a new airplane for less than $5,800?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/trigtt22.php
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/trig11-13061.php?clickkey=1623383
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I think I can do it. New Fuselage, everything else comes from old Fly Baby, including many of the welded metal bits inside the fuselage. Build the new fuselage over a couple of years, then spend a winter disassembling the old one and transferring parts to the new one. Re-using the turnbuckles alone saves me over a thousand bucks.

Heck, found a Craigslist Fly Baby a couple hundred miles from here. Completed, never licensed or flown. Without engine. Less than $5,000.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/for/4851958508.html

Ron Wanttaja
 
OT, but be careful when buying off Craigslist. I have never heard of a website that attracts more scammers, perverts and worse.
http://pix11.com/2015/01/27/elderly...ng-dream-car-from-craigslist-suspect-charged/
wanttaja said:
I think I can do it. New Fuselage, everything else comes from old Fly Baby, including many of the welded metal bits inside the fuselage. Build the new fuselage over a couple of years, then spend a winter disassembling the old one and transferring parts to the new one. Re-using the turnbuckles alone saves me over a thousand bucks.

Heck, found a Craigslist Fly Baby a couple hundred miles from here. Completed, never licensed or flown. Without engine. Less than $5,000.

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/for/4851958508.html

Ron Wanttaja
Click to expand...
 
I started flying in 1964, at the ripe old age of 15. I paid $12.00 an hour, wet for a PA-11 on floats and an instructor. I did odd jobs at the airport all week to fly for an hour on the weekend. Funny thing. I was the youngest student by at least 10 years I would sit around with the geezers and the conversation was exactly the same as it is now. "Kids aren't interested in aviation any more. It's too expensive to fly. The FAA\Cessna\Piper\Mooney\Beechcraft will be the death of General Aviation. It's not like the good old days."
Maybe all the doom and gloom is true. Maybe it isn't. But as long as I can drag my aging carcass into a plane and fly, it will always be the "good old days" for me.

:yes:
 
Shepherd said:
I started flying in 1964, at the ripe old age of 15. I paid $12.00 an hour, wet for a PA-11 on floats and an instructor. I did odd jobs at the airport all week to fly for an hour on the weekend. Funny thing. I was the youngest student by at least 10 years I would sit around with the geezers and the conversation was exactly the same as it is now. "Kids aren't interested in aviation any more. It's too expensive to fly. The FAA\Cessna\Piper\Mooney\Beechcraft will be the death of General Aviation. It's not like the good old days."
Maybe all the doom and gloom is true. Maybe it isn't. But as long as I can drag my aging carcass into a plane and fly, it will always be the "good old days" for me.

:yes:
Click to expand...




Yep, pretty much. I was the second youngest pilot certificated in 1976. Some other kid beat me by two weeks.

When I trained, during our night ground school, there were three other guys in their thirty's and the field and old aerodrome looked like something out of a Norman Rockwell painting.

I was on Daddy's ticket. I think my PPL cost a total of about $600.00. :lol:
 
I've come up with another issue that's hurting aviation...

CFIs who lack the ability to either market or sell themselves - or the aviation industry.

I'm not talking about running around posting flyers for their services, I'm talking about responding to a week's worth of phone calls, voice mails, and text messages seeking training - including verifying contact information and availability with the flight school said CFI is affiliated with.

Granted, it could be that I contacted a unique dud in the Houston area - I've had my share of bad luck - but to not get ANY response is ridiculous. I'm literally trying to give you money and you're failing to take it!

Do I want to drive clear across town for a lesson? No.
Should I have to if there are suitable instructors and aircraft available in my area? No.

This BS just adds to my pondering that accessibility into aviation is exceedingly difficult. How many prospective students have been ignored by such shenanigans? How many lost opportunities have there been?

I'm a marketing guy, and Rule #1 is that when a customer is beating down your door to give you money, you put a big, dumb smile on your face, and welcome him/her in.

/end rant
 
EdFred said:
I'm the last of the local single people I know, and the guys have all been castrated by their wives. "I'd like to go with you but the wife says..."

I'm not one to just go fart around in the pattern or go for a 50 mile food run. If I'm gonna go somewhere, I'm gonna go somewhere. But I've grown tired of solo flights. I've flown to and landed in all of the contiguous 48 solo. I've been to both coasts and the Gulf solo. It gets boring as hell to go somewhere, eat dinner alone, sleep in the hotel alone, and then get up and fly another 500 miles alone. I have a map of the US above my desk at work, and pretty much look at it every day and think, maybe I'll fly to (pick a spot) this weekend. "**** it, I'm not going to spend the night in a hotel in (pick a spot) alone this weekend, I'll save the money."
Click to expand...

As a student pilot I would Jump in with you in a heartbeat. My $ budget probably isn't as big as yours though.... If you ever make it down into Iowa bored I'd fly with you.
 
FlyingIsGood said:
I've come up with another issue that's hurting aviation...

CFIs who lack the ability to either market or sell themselves - or the aviation industry.

I'm not talking about running around posting flyers for their services, I'm talking about responding to a week's worth of phone calls, voice mails, and text messages seeking training - including verifying contact information and availability with the flight school said CFI is affiliated with.

Granted, it could be that I contacted a unique dud in the Houston area - I've had my share of bad luck - but to not get ANY response is ridiculous. I'm literally trying to give you money and you're failing to take it!

Do I want to drive clear across town for a lesson? No.
Should I have to if there are suitable instructors and aircraft available in my area? No.

This BS just adds to my pondering that accessibility into aviation is exceedingly difficult. How many prospective students have been ignored by such shenanigans? How many lost opportunities have there been?

I'm a marketing guy, and Rule #1 is that when a customer is beating down your door to give you money, you put a big, dumb smile on your face, and welcome him/her in.

/end rant
Click to expand...

This is something that has bugged me for as long as I've been flying -- 20+ years.

Aviation businesses are often run by fiercely independent, stubborn and hard-headed dreamers who seem to have absolutely no concept of marketing, sales, or customer service. I can't tell you how many of these businesses I've contacted, through the years, only to receive no response.

I have two theories on this:

1. Aviation business prospects are so bleak, that only idiots are drawn to them -- and idiots don't know how to do lots of things, marketing included.

2. Aviation business prospects are so good that only geniuses are drawn to them -- and successful geniuses don't need to market or return phone calls.

In either case, it drives me crazy. :dunno:
 
Jay Honeck said:
This is something that has bugged me for as long as I've been flying -- 20+ years.

Aviation businesses are often run by fiercely independent, stubborn and hard-headed dreamers who seem to have absolutely no concept of marketing, sales, or customer service. I can't tell you how many of these businesses I've contacted, through the years, only to receive no response.

I have two theories on this:

1. Aviation business prospects are so bleak, that only idiots are drawn to them -- and idiots don't know how to do lots of things, marketing included.

2. Aviation business prospects are so good that only geniuses are drawn to them -- and successful geniuses don't need to market or return phone calls.

In either case, it drives me crazy. :dunno:
Click to expand...

There's no money in flight instructing. Not everybody can or wants to carve a niche in piston flight instructing. Most consider it a means to an end. The rest is predictable. I'd love to flight instruct, it's a much more homestead-friendly aviation outlet than airline pilot and I love that about it. Alas, no money compared to what the military pays me to flight instruct or what even the top 4 major airlines would offer. It is what it is. :dunno:
 
FIG - you need to plan a trip down to Port A to check out Jay's place. That should renew your faith in GA. Also, I know of a CFII in Houston if you're looking. He would probably return your calls. No guarantees, though.


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