What happened? Where did everyone go?

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austinglasair

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When I was born, my Dad was building a Glasair II (the first Glasair II, N360RB ), and so through my entire childhood I was engulfed in the homebuilt world. Weekends weren't spent going to soccer games or playing tag in the street, they were spent with our car parked in front of the hangar at the airport while Dad and I were criss-crossed the east and sometimes the country. Fly-in's were plentiful and homebuilts even more of a hot topic (late 80s through all of the 90s). Every year at Oshkosh there were dozens upon dozens of Glasair's, Lancair's, and Long-EZ's from one side of experimental parking to the other. You couldn't count on all hands and feet how many of each kind there were. It was incredible. Sun 'N Fun was no different at the time.

What happened to that? I guess that's a rhetorical question because I know exactly what's killing it. Of a combination of things, I think avgas prices have completely devoured general aviation, and even more so... many incredible aircraft makers. I watched it first hand when I was a line boy in my teens and watched avgas go from 1.99 when I left at the self serve to 3.75 a year later when I returned to visit during Christmas leave after basic training.

I've been fighting the idea that it's not dead but after returning from a great time at Sun 'N Fun yesterday I see the community is a far-cry from it's hay days that I grew up in. I counted 6 Glasair's total, no Sportsman's, a Lancair Columbia, Legacy, and two Lancair 360's, 5 Long EZ's, 3 Cozy's, 2 Velocities, and 3 Swearingen's. I won't even go into how many RV's I saw... it doesn't take a genius to realize that they have dominated this market.

On another note I talked for a while with some canard guys and noted that as a community they are incredibly friendly, encouraging, and genuinely interested and supportive of each other and of those who are interested in homebuilding. Where did everyone go?
 
I feel your pain ,air shows are getting more expensive lately,with the price of av gas,overnight fees and time restraints .and a lack of same aircraft,there's no incentive to attend.
 
Ron I think you make a really solid point there. It cost my buddy Dave $100 to camp on the grass next to his plane at Sun n fun. Come on, really? I've also noticed the amount of crew cars around the country has drastically decreased. When I was a line boy we had two crew cars, and the cheapest gas in the area.. So guess who got the highest sales?? Several times I heard pilots say, if gas goes up anymore.. I'm going to have to find something else to do, this is killin me (in reference to the 1.99 self serve). I wonder what they're doing today.

Another thing I brainstorm regularly about... LSA's. They're supposed to be the answer to many peoples problems. But these aircraft are coming out with six figure price tags. How in the world is that going to grow he community? The LSA population must be growing elsewhere because of all the airports I've been flying into, to include sun n fun, they are nowhere to be seen. Hmm.

I checked out the LSA/ultralight area at sun n fun and was shocked by the amount of bad mouthing the people in that community were making about standard aircraft. My buddy and I were shocked and taken back by their generally negative attitude about Cessna this, or piper that.. I don't understand that. None of this is pertinent but I do love to share new findings.
 
Gas prices are just a small part of the problem. Maintenance costs are spiraling upwards as well. I bought two mags a year ago around $900 a piece. That's insane. My mech said 5 yrs ago they were about half as much. Insurance costs have risen steadily as well. Full coverage on my Velocity was $3,000 last year, up from $2,600 the previous year. I had to drop hull and just stick with liability.

I think the biggest reason is there are far more other distractions for people these days than in the glory days of GA. In 1980 we had around 820,000 certified pilots in the U.S. Today we have just over 600,000. I see part of the problem being other distractions and commitments but I think it's also a shift in a society that was once about adventure and building things to one of instant gratification. Why go out spend a fortune and learn to fly an aircraft when they can sit home and do it on a computer?

I've made the comparison before with model airplanes. When I was a kid there were hobby stores everywhere. I loved taking the time to build a plane and then admire my work. Nowadays you rarely see hobby stores and the ones that exist are getting more business from adults than children. A few years ago I was trying to show a youngster on how to build an Estes model rocket. He didn't have the patience to even build it. Sat there with his Gameboy playing games the whole time while I built it for him.

So, when it comes down to it, more and more people don't want to do something that 1) costs a bunch of money, 2) Actually requires skill / patience and 3) takes time away from doing their electronic distractions.
 
Mcfly I think you and Ron are both on the target. It is amazing how little patience people have to do anything anymore. Our microwave 3G mentality has taken its toll on so many segments of society.
Look at all the sports and the declining viewership, declining participation in so much, because we have to have instant gratification.

It was sad to me at SnF, even though it was reported to be one of largest crowds in years, the $37 entry fee was excessive to me. The show was good, but not many planes participated. I was just overall disappointed.

I too grew up helping my brother mess around with his plane and flying to various places just because we liked it. We flew to one grass strip airport often because it had a Pepsi machine that had the coldest drinks. the drinks would have chards of ice.

People just don't have the patience to wait or learn.
Just sad.
 
1) Regular GA isn't that much fun and it is the only thing most pilots know and sell
2) Women now have a big say in what men do on weekends, most men are afraid to even ask permission to fly(yes some women like airplanes. Bless them. They are however outliers.)
3) Rules
4) Boats are often more fun(see #1 and #2)
5) Cost
6) Computers only because vanilla GA can be satisfactorily simmed on a computer.
 
I go to Sebring every winter,the lsa community is also in bad shape. The promise of lower cost with LSA never materialized. Hope the Expsrimental home built community can keep the numbers up.
 
Have you noticed that no one builds their radio controll airplanes from a kit or scratch anymore? They by ARF airplanes. Almost Ready to Fly. People aren't building things anymore. They want instant gratification. If they aren't building models, they aren't building Glasairs and long ezs. I grew up as you did. My dad built a Dragonfly. We have built and now fly a Glastar together and are nearing completion of my Glasair III now. I spoke with the factory guys at sun n fun about the glasair line. They basically told me know one want Glasairs anymore. They either have one or they buy one second hand, not from the factory. The truth is that they sell Sportsmans because they have two weeks to taxi for them. That IS what is in demand these days.
Most all the things mentioned in this thread play a roll too, but I think the desire and the skills are disappearing as well.
My two cents....
 
Mcfly, you speak the truth, as evidence of all these fast build kits that are marketed. People just want that instant gratification at low cost and low labor. Lucky for me I was able to get a sun n fun ticket for $32 with my military discount. But still! I used to be on the Golden Knights, and in my time on the team, I never saw an air show cost half as much for our audience. What a turn off. Then there was the $10 parking. Whew. Way to turn off the public. Most air shows we performed in were free admission (military sponsored), and others we no more than 10-15 which normally included free parking. Give me a break.

One of the most satisfying things other than mingling with all our fellow pilots at the campgrounds was chatting with the fella's in the homebuilt parking. Your background and what you do for a living (me a black hawk pilot) has no bearing or importance and everyone is on a level playing field. I absolutely love that! That's something that will never disappear. I hope.
 
Todd, did we shake hands at the Glasair venue? I think we may have. If not, someone else, like you, is building a Glasair III, and we discussed Jeff LaVelle's 403mph qualifying lap at Reno.

I got the same exact feedback from the Glasair representative who was very friendly, I think his name was Harry. The sportsman is just a hot sale right now for them. But I didn't see a single one on any of the flight lines :confused:
 
People are still building things. They just aren't building the same things. The homemade woodenboat boat industry seems to be doing alright. Consider 3D printer hobbyists. People don't evolve all that quick, we will always build things, just what we build evolves quickly. You know what is really sad? No one whittles anymore.
 
Every time someone holds a grassroots fly-in, someone else figures out how to capitalize on it. Gate or tiedown or camping fees. Exorbitant avgas. Expensive hot dogs. The insurance companies talk the government into forcing you to buy insurance. Arlington, for instance, used to be a neat little affair in the '70s until it got too big for its britches. I haven't been back for 15 years or more.

The best little fly-in I ever went to was on a friendly farmer's acreage. He had a wide assortment of aircraft in various states of restoration or rot, and three airstrips. He had a big homemade barbecue, made from an old oil drum cut in half lengthwise and laid on its side, and had big boxes full of hamburger patties and buns and condiments. Burn and build your own for 25 cents apiece. I ate way too many, of course. 1978, that was. No gate fees, no camping fees, no nothing. Just come and enjoy yourself. Could you see anyone getting away with that now?

As far as building: the others here are right: too few are willing to make the effort to build something that won't be finished next week. They aren't willing to study for a PPL. They want to buy everything now. Another factor is the age of aviation: when it was big it was only 50 or 60 or 70 years since the Wright Brothers and 20 or 30 since the great heros of WWII. Now it's much older and all taken for granted. Nothing magical about it anymore. People get on an airliner, never look out the window, never wonder what all those moving parts might be for. Their biggest concern is getting onboard wireless.

Dan
 
Dan, what's sad is... I'm always the youngest guy at these sorts of things (28). My generation simply doesn't care. They will get on man American Airlines 767 and fly from coast to coast wearing flip flops and pajama pants. They have no respect. The fact that they just flew from one end of the country to the other yet complain about xyz things about the flight boggles me. There's just a lack of enthusiasm and passion for flight. What a shame. I'm teaching my son, he's four, as much as I can about our world of aviation. Because our culture as pilots is filled with achieves, doers, men and women of accomplishment, and people who strive to do what they love. Just as my father did for me.

Our airport in Hampton roads virginia had very regular fly ins with cheap hot dogs, aircraft displays, and free admission to all. The airfield would be jammed packed on a Saturday when they had that. To even fathom the idea of that now would be considered crazy. Now it's a $15 tie down fee and here's the code to get through the gate.. What a shame.
 
Up until 2008, my one man HVAC business was booming. I am now taking home 45-50% of 2008. After my PPC in 2008 in 6 weeks/60 hrs, we started our SLOW BUILD RV-10(12/1/09-12/1/11, 2000 hrs). We canceled home internet and directtv. We drive old vehicles that I maintain. We grow about a one acre garden and cook 95% of our meals at home. Our kids help with everything as we want them to make it when we are gone. The kids have ipods, but no cell phones or a data plan. We have 0 debt. Our kids attend educational camps most summers. We buy them just about any book that they want. They are both in the top of their class. We do all of this so that we can afford hangar rent($2000), insurance($2400), repairs($1000) and maybe some 100LL($2000 in 2013, yes 30 hrs sucks but better than 0 hrs). We went to Osh 2012. It was the most expensive 5 days of tent camping ever. We talked to some of our RV parts manufacturers that were paying $15,000 for a small booth. It was just too busy and not worth the $1500+ to go. Most people were in too big of a hurry to get their monies? worth to make new friends. I loved looking at all of the planes and watching the airshow. We did not care for getting ran over by gators and delivery trucks. I rarely see more than 1 or 2 planes at our home base or destinations. Hoping our politicians and business leaders can bring jobs back, pay themselves a fair salary and the economy turns around soon.
 
Last year, I had to replace a sector gear on the seat adjuster for the copilot seat in my Bonanza. It was $76.77 plus shipping from Beech, one day delivery. They had 4 in stock when I ordered mine.

Couple of weeks ago, in researching for a comment on a thread on another board, I looked up the same part. Beech has 44 in stock at the Dallas warehouse (from where they ship most parts). Asking price? $1,899.00. It is a simple gear, machined aluminum, fits in the palm of your hand.

Any questions?
 
SCCutler said:
Last year, I had to replace a sector gear on the seat adjuster for the copilot seat in my Bonanza. It was $76.77 plus shipping from Beech, one day delivery. They had 4 in stock when I ordered mine.

Couple of weeks ago, in researching for a comment on a thread on another board, I looked up the same part. Beech has 44 in stock at the Dallas warehouse (from where they ship most parts). Asking price? $1,899.00. It is a simple gear, machined aluminum, fits in the palm of your hand.

Any questions?
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Yeah one. What do you attribute the jump in price over only one year? What changed?
 
austinglasair said:
Dan, what's sad is... I'm always the youngest guy at these sorts of things (28). My generation simply doesn't care. They will get on man American Airlines 767 and fly from coast to coast wearing flip flops and pajama pants. They have no respect. The fact that they just flew from one end of the country to the other yet complain about xyz things about the flight boggles me. There's just a lack of enthusiasm and passion for flight. What a shame. I'm teaching my son, he's four, as much as I can about our world of aviation. Because our culture as pilots is filled with achieves, doers, men and women of accomplishment, and people who strive to do what they love. Just as my father did for me.

Our airport in Hampton roads virginia had very regular fly ins with cheap hot dogs, aircraft displays, and free admission to all. The airfield would be jammed packed on a Saturday when they had that. To even fathom the idea of that now would be considered crazy. Now it's a $15 tie down fee and here's the code to get through the gate.. What a shame.
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I'm 24. I care. I do my best to get people involved. I keep riding the flight school to do some BBQs and get some attendance for fun.

Things are just out of my control. Those of you that grew up before us, be glad that you did. We sure are missing out on a lot.

My grandpa flies the Yankee Lady around to various air shows. I attend when I can but at 200gph, it's hard for them to make it to places. $450 or so a ride seems like a lot, and it is, but it only covers the basic cost of the aircraft.
 
austinglasair said:
Todd, did we shake hands at the Glasair venue? I think we may have. If not, someone else, like you, is building a Glasair III, and we discussed Jeff LaVelle's 403mph qualifying lap at Reno.

I got the same exact feedback from the Glasair representative who was very friendly, I think his name was Harry. The sportsman is just a hot sale right now for them. But I didn't see a single one on any of the flight lines :confused:
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I don't think it was me, but it would have been my pleasure. I was at the glasair tent as they were just opening it for the day. Didn't really see anyone else other than the Harry from Glasair Aviation.
Todd
 
One other thing you are missing is with cheap easy communication I don't need to go to a fly in to get my mutual appreciation meter kicked up. I can text three or four like minded friends then go fly and eat and whatever. No need for a fly in invite postcard to arrive in the mail. More fun but invisible to those not included.
 
I watched a plastic gear on the backup alternator (designed to shear) go from about $20 to $248 on a Cirrus SR22 while I owned it*.

A parachute repack for the same plane is now about $14,000.

Being in retirement now, Experimental Light Sport, burning MOGAS when I can and doing the lion's share of my maintenance has been the only way I could responsibly stay in the flying game.

Then again, I'm enjoying my Sky Arrow at least as much as I enjoyed my Cirrus. Certainly far more limited in mission capability, but having slowed down that's no longer a big deal to me.


*I wrote an open letter to Alan Klapmeier on 2005 concerning the rising cost of parts, "signed" by lots of COPA members. Never got a response. And still perusing the COPA site on occasion, things have only gotten worse in the last nine years.
 
ClimbnSink said:
4) Boats are often more fun(see #1 and #2
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And instant gratification. Buy a boat Saturday morning, you're on the lake Saturday afternoon. Training? Medicals? Nope. Work on the boat yourself? Yep.
 
I wasn't around back then, but I don't find Osh to be all that great. It's fun and all, but it's too much of a city. I'd rather go to a gathering of my friends if I did it.

We're in a market that has limited appeal these days. Cost is high, safety is low, many barriers to entry. Most people don't need to travel a great deal, and a plane that is the equivalent of a Chevy Suburban becomes more to maintain per year than most peoples' salaries. Meanwhile, motorcycles seem to be growing in popularity. Safety is still low, but so is cost and barriers to entry.

However, I think experimental is the way of the future for private aviation because of cost, ease of working on yourself, etc.

Situations like what Spike mentioned are all too common, but it's not hard to find a cheaper solution in most cases. Most $1,000+ little parts I've found for $100 or less.
 
Bill Jennings said:
And instant gratification. Buy a boat Saturday morning, you're on the lake Saturday afternoon. Training? Medicals? Nope. Work on the boat yourself? Yep.
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Not into boats, but this is what Karen and I just got (tow vehicle and trailer):

13526073335_e5d262f4b3.jpg


It even fit in our hangar!

13559417325_aecf3cafd8.jpg


Headed to an AirStream rally at the fairgrounds in Hiawassee, GA this weekend if anyone cares to stop by!
 
I have a wife, a baby and a small dog and we use our airplane primarily for trips, so I need a 4 seat plane. I would absolutely love an RV10 (or similar) but I can't afford one that's already been built. I also don't have a ton of tools and I don't greatly enjoy mechanical work. I'll do some maintenance on our cars and my motorcycle but it's not something I personally enjoy doing all the time. I'm also a little strapped for time these days since I now have a 6 month old and I'd have to sell my current plane in order to have room in my hangar to build an experimental airplane.

Believe me I've thought about this a lot, but there seems to be no segment of general aviation that I can partake in except for what I'm currently doing: owning a 30 year old certified plane. I'd have to spend $200,000 (pre-built RV10) in order to save myself $20,000 on non certified avionics, which financially makes no sense at all. I can fly/maintain/upgrade my current plane for the rest of my life for less than just the cost to purchase an RV10..the reality of it all is a bit sad.

Feel free to let me in on something that I'm missing, but for me it seems like my current aviation situation is the only one that makes sense.
 
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It was a challenge for two average wage earners like ourselves. We started together at 17 and 18 with a list of goals. The last three on our list...pay off all debt, ppc and build or buy a 4-place family hauler. No vacations for 5 years prior to finishing the plane other than short day trips. We live on a small farm in a forest so there is always plenty to do. It is definitely not for everyone, but so thankful to have the wonderful wife that I do. I would have divorced myself years ago! Once everything is paid for, you are looking at $40K for five years. It is not easy for sure, but can be done if one wants it bad enough. Now that the plane is built, it cost us about $250/hr to operate. That is at 30 hrs of flying. if we fly 60 hrs, it goes down to $160/hr. We cruise at 160 ktas burning 10.5-11.0 gph. I bet an equivalent 4-place would rent for more than that.

If I had not went this route, then I would have went into a partnership or flying club. It could really save. Good luck and if you come up this way, I will take you up in mine.
 
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll bet there are more RVs built than all the other experimentals combined. I'll bet folks are not only still building, but building even more now than in the day due to the presence of really good kits. Might not be doing as many composite airframes, but plenty of airframes nonetheless.

Again, you can correct me if I'm wrong and I'll own up to it.
 
At little airports that I visit, and at my home base, RV activity easily matches the activity by certified signles. However, there's still a very large number of certified aircraft rotting away. My field features two very sad Bonanzas and a 150 in a covered parking right next to my own airplane. Someone stole a headlight from the 150. I am sure the T-hangars contain even more of that. If we look at the whole fleet, including twins and helicopters, RVs are still a small sliver, maybe 3% if that. However, RV owners are typically very active and fly a lot, which makes them stand out.

Building from plastic is just such as nasty and slow process, nobody wants to deal with it anymore.

Another thing people seem to build again is the tube-and-fabric, like Cubs, Bearcats, and RANSes (mostly S-6 and S-7). Oratex eliminates painting and makes your lungs thankful for it. Not as muny of those as RVs, however.
 
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Bill Jennings said:
And instant gratification. Buy a boat Saturday morning, you're on the lake Saturday afternoon. Training? Medicals? Nope. Work on the boat yourself? Yep.
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Most locales also allow you to boat with an open beer in hand (Cali tried to crack down on it some time around 2010). Try that at SnF.
 
As one that dislikes working with VOCs and other nasties that Oratex stuff looks excellent.
 
Challenged, I've brainstormed this for a long time my friend. In terms of a four seater experimental that is. I have talked to multitudes of builders and owners of every type of velocity, cozy Mk iv, mooney. What's the common denominator between those aircraft? They're all 160+ KTAS 4 seat aircraft with an io-360. To me, that's what I can afford in terms of fuel burn if I want to fly at least 50-100 hours a year in my own aircraft. The 9-10gph is affordable at that rate. But the cozy is a plans built aircraft which may not suit your taste of labor intensity. But if you build it and get your builders cert, you can perform most of your own maintenance.. Legally! Anyways, you wanted some 4 seater ideas. Check them out if you desire. I have no problem with composite aircraft. Probably because I grew up in that community. I'm sure Jeff Lavelle doesn't have a problem with composites either :)
 
steingar said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll bet there are more RVs built than all the other experimentals combined. I'll bet folks are not only still building, but building even more now than in the day due to the presence of really good kits. Might not be doing as many composite airframes, but plenty of airframes nonetheless.

Again, you can correct me if I'm wrong and I'll own up to it.
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I'd agree with that statement. It's sad too because Velocities, Glasairs, Lancairs and pretty much every other composite is far better looking than a Vans. :D
 
Velocity173 said:
Velocities, Glasairs, Lancairs and pretty much every other composite is far better looking than a Vans. :D
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I agree. We were at our limit for build time and money. Wanted to be able to land on grass too.
 
Challenged said:
I have a wife, a baby and a small dog and we use our airplane primarily for trips, so I need a 4 seat plane. I would absolutely love an RV10 (or similar) but I can't afford one that's already been built. I also don't have a ton of tools and I don't greatly enjoy mechanical work. I'll do some maintenance on our cars and my motorcycle but it's not something I personally enjoy doing all the time. I'm also a little strapped for time these days since I now have a 6 month old and I'd have to sell my current plane in order to have room in my hangar to build an experimental airplane.

Believe me I've thought about this a lot, but there seems to be no segment of general aviation that I can partake in except for what I'm currently doing: owning a 30 year old certified plane. I'd have to spend $200,000 (pre-built RV10) in order to save myself $20,000 on non certified avionics, which financially makes no sense at all. I can fly/maintain/upgrade my current plane for the rest of my life for less than just the cost to purchase an RV10..the reality of it all is a bit sad.

Feel free to let me in on something that I'm missing, but for me it seems like my current aviation situation is the only one that makes sense.
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I'm on the same boat. No experimental Piper Arrows around. So for 45K entry fee I get to operate a 130-135kt 8-9gph airplane $10-15K/yr all in and get my family to our 100-500NM destinations TODAY, not in 5 years and countless hours of begrudged building (my heart would not be in it). I'll probably never be in a financial position to capitalize an RV-10. Frankly, I wouldn't want to. I don't think their performance is worth the premium they command.

I just dropped 5 AMUs on the first-to-me annual/13th month mx on it this week, and frankly, it's chump change versus purchasing an RV-10. I could drop annuals like this for posterity on the purchase money saved on equivalent performance on the experimental side. Given my lack of inclination to do major airframe maintenance myself or build an airplane outright, I'm still ahead by taking it in the shorts on the certified side.

The capital differences more than negate the savings on avionics and maintenance leeway of experimental. Of courtse, you can't get a 45K 4-seater RV, so the whole thing it's moot. That is why we need primary non-commercial; the Ex-ab market simply forgot about the 2+2 family pilot. That, or perhaps fully depreciated spam cans are truly such better relative deals money-wise, where bringing experimental peer samples into the market cannot compete.
 
hindsight2020 said:
the Ex-ab market simply forgot about the 2+2 family pilot.
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What about Zenith CH-801 and CH-640? Those are still available, aren't they? The value proposition may not be there, but they exist.
 
Go to rans clan forum and get a load of the s7 courrier Rick Hayes recently completed. Beautiful work. And yes it will land on grass! Rans 6 and 7 models are great flyers. In almost 5000 hours, I rarely had four people in a plane, sometimes 2 but usually just myself. Mooney was the exception but usually one or two.
 
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The thing I see in my neck of the woods is that pilots/owners are at each other throats. Calling the city on each other, running their aircraft for a business and not having he proper permits, certs or licenses to do so. I am an A&P that has started training for my PPL and trying my hardest to find some one to trade MX for flight time using my own CFII. Most of them will not even acknowledge my emails and phone messages and the 2% that have don't want to put any hours on the aircraft because they are afraid that something will brake and add to there MX cost on top of the annual. There are two aircraft that haven't flown in 4 or 5 years but are current with the annuals. Other are just sitting rotting away. I have offered to get them current and fly them but no one wants that deal. Unfortunately from where I sit it seems that GA is becoming more and more unfriendly and keeping the younger folks from joining. Again this is all I have experienced in the last few years. I have been begging for some one to prove me wrong in the NE Ohio area.
 
edessa said:
The thing I see in my neck of the woods is that pilots/owners are at each other throats. Calling the city on each other, running their aircraft for a business and not having he proper permits, certs or licenses to do so. I am an A&P that has started training for my PPL and trying my hardest to find some one to trade MX for flight time using my own CFII. Most of them will not even acknowledge my emails and phone messages and the 2% that have don't want to put any hours on the aircraft because they are afraid that something will brake and add to there MX cost on top of the annual. There are two aircraft that haven't flown in 4 or 5 years but are current with the annuals. Other are just sitting rotting away. I have offered to get them current and fly them but no one wants that deal. Unfortunately from where I sit it seems that GA is becoming more and more unfriendly and keeping the younger folks from joining. Again this is all I have experienced in the last few years. I have been begging for some one to prove me wrong in the NE Ohio area.
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Our local junk on the ramp was just towed in to be parted out finally. The family kept it sitting outside after owner died until it was worthless. I see the normal 5-6 guys flying every time I am out. Most just sit in their hangars and waste away.
 
I still do not see why the FAA makes the avionics so g**d****** expensive. I still can't wrap my head around the fact that I can buy the exact same equipment for a non-certified aircraft for a fraction of the cost. As a result, my co-owners and I fly around with 1970s vintage avionics. You cannot tell me that new modern electronics from a reputable manufacturer, certified or not, is less reliable and/or less safe than the "certified" equipment in my plane.

Overall though, I have been able to get into the aviation game pretty cheap. I paid less than 10k for a 1/3 ownership in a 177B, and have pretty much unfettered use of the plane. I figure it costs me about $100.00 per hour to fly, plus hangar, insurance, and roughly 1k in additional maintenance assessments per year.
 
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