What does this signal mean?

SCCutler said:
Vonnegut's "Welcome to the Monkey House."

Law requires that everyone of above-average intelligence wear a device which periodically blasts noise, intended to disrupt their unfairly-superior thought processes, into their ears.

Other things, too, which seemed ludicrously improbable when I read it thirty or so years ago, perhaps not so much now...

Good read.
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We need a new thread on how the idiots are in control and it's assumed we all are:

Top of head:

1) Idjits don't wear seat belts. MUST HAVE AIR BAGS (that don't work if the idjit doesn't wear a seat belt.)

2) Idjits don't wear seat belts. Some think no neeed because they have air bags. MANDATORY BY LAW TO WEAR SEAT BELT. See #1.

3) Idjits take tylenol and other remedies containing acetaminophen. They overdose. They drink alcohol on it. They lose their livers. BAN ACETAMINOPHEN.

4) Dateline 2010: Idjits talk and drive, text and drive .... MANDATORY AUTOBRAKE SYSTEM !
 
5) Idjits don't have insurance. Make it mandatory to have insurance.
6) Idjits still don't have insurance. Make it mandatory to buy uninsured motorists insurance to cover in case of #5 above.
 
One of my friend's son crashed his BMW. After the repairs were complete he and his dad went to the shop in Dads BMV to get his BMW. On the way home the son crashed his BMW into Dad's BMW totaling both.
 
steingar said:
One of my friend's son crashed his BMW. After the repairs were complete he and his dad went to the shop in Dads BMV to get his BMW. On the way home the son crashed his BMW into Dad's BMW totaling both.
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Daaaaadddd!! I need a new one!
 
gkainz said:
5) Idjits don't have insurance. Make it mandatory to have insurance.
6) Idjits still don't have insurance. Make it mandatory to buy uninsured motorists insurance to cover in case of #5 above.
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How about we just impound your car if caught driving without insurance.. Not ticket, but tow and impound. Make it hurt.
 
Doggtyred said:
How about we just impound your car if caught driving without insurance.. Not ticket, but tow and impound. Make it hurt.
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They already do that in various cities in Texas.

Maybe we need a Federal public insurance option... ;)
 
gkainz said:
5) Idjits don't have insurance. Make it mandatory to have insurance.
6) Idjits still don't have insurance. Make it mandatory to buy uninsured motorists insurance to cover in case of #5 above.
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Or do as Chicago is proposing:

7) Use traffic light and surveillance cameras to scan licence plates and cross reference every car to an insurance database. Raise $100 million a year in fine revenue: http://i.gizmodo.com/5173548/chicago-street-lights-may-scan-for-car-insurance

So to answer the thread title, "What does this signal mean?" - it means you're being surveilled.
 
wsuffa said:
Or do as Chicago is proposing:

7) Use traffic light and surveillance cameras to scan licence plates and cross reference every car to an insurance database. Raise $100 million a year in fine revenue: http://i.gizmodo.com/5173548/chicago-street-lights-may-scan-for-car-insurance

So to answer the thread title, "What does this signal mean?" - it means you're being surveilled.
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So they're going to have to link license plate numbers to VIN numbers, since insurance policies don't list license plate numbers. Then they're going to have to link the VIN numbers to the insurance policies, and all of the auto insurance companies are going to have to continually update the status of all of the policies. Plus all of the DMV registration records will have to be continually updated. Think that will be error-free? Not a friggin' chance.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
So they're going to have to link license plate numbers to VIN numbers, since insurance policies don't list license plate numbers. Then they're going to have to link the VIN numbers to the insurance policies, and all of the auto insurance companies are going to have to continually update the status of all of the policies. Plus all of the DMV registration records will have to be continually updated. Think that will be error-free? Not a friggin' chance.


Trapper John
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But think of the $$$$$
 
Trapper John said:
So they're going to have to link license plate numbers to VIN numbers, since insurance policies don't list license plate numbers. Then they're going to have to link the VIN numbers to the insurance policies, and all of the auto insurance companies are going to have to continually update the status of all of the policies. Plus all of the DMV registration records will have to be continually updated. Think that will be error-free? Not a friggin' chance.


Trapper John
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Whas yer problem? If dey get you wrong you jest ask fer hearing with the process where you show up in front ofda clerk at da Chicago Department of Revenue. Ya know. Fer great justice.

It hasn't happened to a large enough extent yet, but real soon now every driver wil know to stay out of Chicago just like pilots know. As it is suburbanites are staying away because they're no way to park at the 12/hour "privately leased" meters and not get nailed with a $100 ticket anyway. See above for the appeal process.

I head one story on the radio from a woman who had walked the 8 car lengths down to pay immediately after parking only to come back to a traffic aide writing a ticket.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-talk-parking-metra-stickersjul22,0,6670175.story
 
Trapper John said:
So they're going to have to link license plate numbers to VIN numbers, since insurance policies don't list license plate numbers. Then they're going to have to link the VIN numbers to the insurance policies, and all of the auto insurance companies are going to have to continually update the status of all of the policies. Plus all of the DMV registration records will have to be continually updated. Think that will be error-free? Not a friggin' chance.
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The system would be contracted out: no risk to the city.

BTW, a lot of cities are going to mobile camera systems to check license plates & automagically run them against various databases. Airports are using them too ("for security and anti-terrorism", of course). DC has now equipped most of their garbage trucks and street sweepers with such systems to catch parking violators.

It's coming, and fast. BOHICA!
 
wsuffa said:
The system would be contracted out: no risk to the city.

BTW, a lot of cities are going to mobile camera systems to check license plates & automagically run them against various databases. Airports are using them too ("for security and anti-terrorism", of course). DC has now equipped most of their garbage trucks and street sweepers with such systems to catch parking violators.

It's coming, and fast. BOHICA!
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Chicago already has the vans with the cameras so they can boot LEGALLY parked cars that have as many as 2 outstanding parking tickets.

When it was assumed that you only needed to buy the city sticker if you parked on the street or you didn't have parents in the suburbs to register the car to (save on insurance too) they passed an ordinance allowing the goons to go into private garages to check cars.

We can seriously expect - because it already has been tried - that Chicago will go after people who don't live in Chicago. They want to impose the 18% car rental tax on rentals done outside Chicago because those cars could be driven into Daleyland. I used to specifically rent in the burbs just to avoid the conventioneers tax.
 
Trapper John said:
Think that will be error-free? Not a friggin' chance. Trapper John
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My elderly father got photo-busted for running a $.25 toll booth on the Garden State Parkway in NJ. The fine was $25. Remit $25.25 please....

It wasn't his car. The license plate characters were correct, and distinctive: M-5. But the state name was obscured by glare. It took me four months of dealing with bureaucrats to get them to look at the photo, identify the offending vehicle as a BMW, look at my father's registration and see that his car was a Taurus, and drop the case against him.

My Dad (just turned 93 last week, and the whole family is glad he has given up driving now) is the definition of old school and this worried him terribly. A $25 fine for a $0.25 toll!

As you surmise, there will be many errors in the proposed system and they will not be easy to overturn when made.:mad3:

-Skip
 
alaskaflyer said:
:needpics:
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Here is the outside damage. There is a crack in the fiberglass underneath the plastic bumper.

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mikea said:
The new Volvo "city car" already has radar and auto-braking so precious snowflake doesn't have to worry about looking for traffic ahead while she texts. They'll have to add a red light sensor and the photoelectric thing to follow the white line on the highway (which DOES exist in research at such as Carnegie-Mellon)
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Bah. It exists in real vehicles - Trucks. I think Eaton makes it. Cameras follow the lines and if the truck starts to drift too much, either a beepy-alarm goes off, or the new thing is that it'll play a simulated-rumble-strip noise through the stereo speakers.

They also make a system that does following distance alerts and will hook into the cruise control. You set a speed, if someone cuts you off the truck automatically slows down until it has enough following distance and then speeds back up.
 
Trapper John said:
So they're going to have to link license plate numbers to VIN numbers, since insurance policies don't list license plate numbers. Then they're going to have to link the VIN numbers to the insurance policies, and all of the auto insurance companies are going to have to continually update the status of all of the policies. Plus all of the DMV registration records will have to be continually updated. Think that will be error-free? Not a friggin' chance.


Trapper John
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Perhaps not in your state but in Maryland they are linked and the insurance companies send monthly updates to the MVA so they know if you have insurance or not.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Bah. It exists in real vehicles - Trucks. I think Eaton makes it. Cameras follow the lines and if the truck starts to drift too much, either a beepy-alarm goes off, or the new thing is that it'll play a simulated-rumble-strip noise through the stereo speakers.

They also make a system that does following distance alerts and will hook into the cruise control. You set a speed, if someone cuts you off the truck automatically slows down until it has enough following distance and then speeds back up.
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That's it. New law to make it mandatory in all vehicles for the 2012 model year. WHASSA MATTA auto maker!!!??? You don't care about saving the lives of your customers?
 
dmccormack said:
Precisely..

"Since the majority has an IQ around 100, we should ban smart people..."
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Uhhh, wrong. When the testing began several decades ago, the average (or median or whatever) was 100. It is now 90....
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Bah. It exists in real vehicles - Trucks. I think Eaton makes it.
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It is in passenger vehicles as well. It is just starting to come out in American models but has been overseas for a while now, mostly in high end cars. The system that is in Mercedes and BMW is made by Continental formerly Motorola Automotive.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Bah. It exists in real vehicles - Trucks. I think Eaton makes it. Cameras follow the lines and if the truck starts to drift too much, either a beepy-alarm goes off, or the new thing is that it'll play a simulated-rumble-strip noise through the stereo speakers.

They also make a system that does following distance alerts and will hook into the cruise control. You set a speed, if someone cuts you off the truck automatically slows down until it has enough following distance and then speeds back up.
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As many lousy OTR drivers as there are out there today, bring it on.


Trapper John
 
wsuffa said:
The system would be contracted out: no risk to the city.
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And the contractor is going to be highly incentivized to generate citations in order to recover their capital costs and to get their percentage fee split with the city. No incentive to really emphasize accuracy in that kind of contractual arrangement, unless there's a substantial penalty clause against the contractor for false tickets, which I seriously doubt exists. The contractor wants revenue, the city wants revenue. Set up a ridiculously difficult protest process and you'll get a substantial percentage of people to give up fighting out of frustration.

It's coming, and fast. BOHICA!
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Sure looks that way.


Trapper John
 
mikea said:
That's it. New law to make it mandatory in all vehicles for the 2012 model year. WHASSA MATTA auto maker!!!??? You don't care about saving the lives of your customers?
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Just tie it into the health care reform bill. Justify it on cutting costs there.
 
Bob Noel said:
Be careful with that "logic" - what % of the population is capable of flying an airplane? I guess we should just ban flying.
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Sorry but your LOGIC is wrong. I said that doing a particular THING while driving is not something that 99% of the populace is capable. It is simple physiology.

How that translates into a percentage of the population that gets TRAINED to fly a plane, I have no idea. However weak logic arguments abound on the Internet.
 
Many weak logic arguements do indeed abound, as well as many assumptions
 
Trapper John said:
As many lousy OTR drivers as there are out there today, bring it on.
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The percentage of lousy OTR drivers has nothin' on the percentage of lousy car drivers. :no:

Besides, do you really want a bunch of devices that "allow" people to pay LESS attention? I think half the reason the drivers are so unsafe these days is that the cars have gotten almost TOO safe - So the drivers have gotten complacent. Kinda like how the chute in the Cirrus has led to more people being killed than saved, IMHO.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
The percentage of lousy OTR drivers has nothin' on the percentage of lousy car drivers. :no:
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Agreed, I dodge more idjits in cars than in tractor-trailers, but I'd rather dodge a 4,000 lb car than a 80,000 lb tractor-trailer that's 70-odd feet long.

Besides, do you really want a bunch of devices that "allow" people to pay LESS attention? I think half the reason the drivers are so unsafe these days is that the cars have gotten almost TOO safe - So the drivers have gotten complacent. Kinda like how the chute in the Cirrus has led to more people being killed than saved, IMHO.
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An engineer at Purdue came to that same conclusion a couple of years ago after studying driver behavior in cars with airbags and ABS. Of course, NHTSA and the automakers disagreed. What I'd rather see is better drivers, but our system isn't going to change in my lifetime. They can suspend and revoke licenses all day long, but people will just drive without licenses because they don't have transportation alternatives.


Trapper John
 
Trapper John said:
An engineer at Purdue came to that same conclusion a couple of years ago after studying driver behavior in cars with airbags and ABS. Of course, NHTSA and the automakers disagreed.
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Interesting. You'd think automakers would agree, since the less "safety" crap they have to build into the car, the less it should cost, in theory.

I think we've gotten to the point where there needs to be a much bigger focus on the drivers. The cars are amazingly safe already.
 
one main problem is that driver training really needs to start when you are 4 or 5 yrs old. i grew up driving three wheelers (only needed stiches once), four wheelers, go karts, snowmobiles (only one broken windshield). I solo'd an International Harvester combine when I was 4, IH 1086 tractor with stalk cutter at 10. I think my first time in a car on the road solo was at 12. So by the time I got my learners permit at 14 I already knew how to drive. I got the school permit right away at 15 and bought an old pickup and was thrilled to be able to drive across town to school. my sister hated riding with me but not enough to take the bus apparently. I had a couple fender benders when I was 16 and 17. One in my pickup on the interstate when everything stopped and I didnt see it fast enough, just barely indented their bumper and another time when delivering pizza. looked down to look at address and looked up to see a faceful of Ford Focus. still just scratched the bumper.

Delivering pizza's for 4 or 5 years really helped out my driving skills. Im pretty lazy about blinker use but I have become a pretty good defensive driver I think. Stay out of peoples blind spots, be predicatable, drive steady etc.

I just love listening to parents who won't let little johnny go drive somewhere. why? because he doesnt have enough driving experience...well how the hell is he supposed to get experience?? buy him a junker and get full coverage!
 
Everyone needs to learn how to drive in New York City. If you can drive amongst New York City taxis, parallel park an Excursion in a space the size of a Smart, and travel at 90+ mph when surrounding bumper-to-bumper traffic is doing 50, you'll be fine.

Everyone also needs to be trained on cars that don't work and have at least one major system that routinely doesn't work (brakes, engine, transmission, electrical). If you expect it to fail at any time, you'll handle it better when it does. Better still if it's a truck. Take a Chevy K5 Blazer with no rear shocks, 36" tires, and 120 degrees of play in the steering wheel (bad pitman arm), non-functioning brakes, and attach a U-Haul trailer to it, drive it on backroads up to Massachusetts to pick up a car and drive home with it. Better still, go through NYC on your way. Then drive another 4x2 truck with trailer with car on it on ice, and some overloaded trailers on the highway. Once I had my 4x2 Dodge in 6" of slush with the trailer attached. Chevy Impala in front of me started spinning out of control, bouncing off the guard rails on either side. I induced a power slide, went around the thing on the right lane and shoulder (the truck and trailer looked like this: > ), straightened out after that. I still remember the look in the guy's face as he saw my truck approaching his car, probably thinking he was dead. I still don't know how I did that.

Worked for me - 230,000? 280,000? Whole buncha miles in about 9 years, no accidents.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Everyone needs to learn how to drive in New York City. If you can drive amongst New York City taxis, parallel park an Excursion in a space the size of a Smart, and travel at 90+ mph when surrounding bumper-to-bumper traffic is doing 50, you'll be fine.
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Does driving around the Arc de Triompe at rush hour count? How about Boston? ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Besides, do you really want a bunch of devices that "allow" people to pay LESS attention? I think half the reason the drivers are so unsafe these days is that the cars have gotten almost TOO safe - So the drivers have gotten complacent. Kinda like how the chute in the Cirrus has led to more people being killed than saved, IMHO.
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LOL. So, the ultimate safety device we should install on all cars is a large, metal spike in the center of the steering wheel. :yikes:


Trapper John said:
An engineer at Purdue came to that same conclusion a couple of years ago after studying driver behavior in cars with airbags and ABS. Of course, NHTSA and the automakers disagreed.
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I thought there was a term for that. I can't think of it right now. Found an interesting Schneier post about the concept, though.

Ah...I found it: risk compensation (via Automobile Safety).
 
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Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Unlike the '50s and '60s when seat belts were optional nearly no one bought them, safety now sells. Many people want 5 star crash ratings, more effing air bags than you can shake a stick at, etc. etc.
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In 1982 I was in the Air Force and had to sit through mandatory defensive driving classes. The one thing that I heard was, "If you bought a new car you paid about $400 for seat belts -- you paid for them -- you might as well use them!"

I had a new car and started wearing the belts from time to time.

In April, 1982 my new wife and I were driving home from Plattsburgh, NY. A drunk driver crossed into our lane around a turn and though I tried to avoid him, he hit us head on.

I spent 3 days in ICU -- apparently they pulled me out from under the engine which wa sup in my lap. Janet wasn't hurt quite as badly.

But when we saw our car in the junkyard a week later, it was obvious -- without seatbelts both of us would have been ejected through the front windshield, and the roofline would have probably fractured our skulls.

There is no doubt in my mind the seatbelts saved us.

I was a Fire Department volunteer for three years -- since 60% of our calls were car wrecks, we saw the difference between people protected by belts and bodies that were not.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
Unlike the '50s and '60s when seat belts were optional nearly no one bought them, safety now sells. Many people want 5 star crash ratings, more effing air bags than you can shake a stick at, etc. etc.
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Me! I'm going to for side air bags in my next car specifically because there are so many Donnas as above driving and texting and yakking through the stop while aiming the super-safe ExGargancho at me.
 
mikea said:
Me! I'm going to for side air bags in my next car specifically because there are so many Donnas as above driving and texting and yakking through the stop while aiming the super-safe ExGargancho at me.
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Just make sure you get something massive enough to take the hit..and tall enough to not take a bumper through the side window. I quit driving little cars when it occured to me that most stuff out there would put the bumper through glass, not metal, and no side airbag in the world would do much good in that situation.
 
Trapper John said:
An engineer at Purdue came to that same conclusion a couple of years ago after studying driver behavior in cars with airbags and ABS.
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I'm gonna point out that saving us from ourselves is generally not a good idea. You could say that the following was caused by spell checkers:

fail-owned-educational-software-fail.jpg


:frown2:
 
Trapper John said:
So they're going to have to link license plate numbers to VIN numbers, since insurance policies don't list license plate numbers. Then they're going to have to link the VIN numbers to the insurance policies, and all of the auto insurance companies are going to have to continually update the status of all of the policies. Plus all of the DMV registration records will have to be continually updated. Think that will be error-free? Not a friggin' chance.


Trapper John
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jtheune said:
Perhaps not in your state but in Maryland they are linked and the insurance companies send monthly updates to the MVA so they know if you have insurance or not.
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I live in Georgia (yeah, I know it's the South but at least I didn't spend last night in a HI Express :smilewinkgrin:) and this state has a good on-line system used by all police agencies for checking tags, licenses, AND insurance. We are no longer required to carry an insurance card. When someone applies for a new tag or tag transfer a check is also made at that time to validate insurance coverage. When I listen to my public safety scanner I seldom hear an officer having to provide a VIN -- everything is tied to tag and driver's license.

All of that is wonderful for law abiding citizens. In our local paper every week we read about numerous drivers arrested for no valid insurance. I guess the bottom line is that the on-line system allows police to better enforce the insurance requirements since a driver can't plead "I forgot my insurance card or I lost my insurance card".

For those who think we in Georgia are backwards let me tell you that at least our governor is a pilot and actively promotes GA (both the aviation GA and the state GA). Of course he loses credibility with some because his name is ........ Sonny Purdue. Nothing redneck about that I'm sure :frown2:

Bruce
 
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