What does everyone think about ‘Lie to Fly’ from NYTimes?

[Velocity173]

When I look at some of the medications the FAA will approve pilots to be prescribed these days, I think the FAA has gone too far. As an example:

As of April 2024, the FAA conditionally approved venlafaxine for special issuance for pilots and controllers. This approval applies to patients who are stable and taking venlafaxine, which is a serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (SNRI) commonly used to treat anxiety and depression.

One of the side effects of this medication is a condition called brain zaps. These sensations are described as brief, repetitive, electric shock-like feelings in the brain or head. They can also feel like the brain is shivering.

Brain zaps can occur when someone is late taking their dose, or when they abruptly stop or reduce their dose of the medication. They are often associated with involuntary side-to-side eye movements, and can also be triggered by other head movements. The sensations usually last a few weeks, but can persist for years.

This medication is also commonly prescribed to men receiving ADT prostate cancer treatments to combat hot flash side effects. Many describe these brain zaps a debilitating. I doubt you would find a single prostate cancer patient on this medication who would tell you flying an airplane would be acceptable. About everyone on the medication experiances the side effects.

Enough is enough.

Even some of these mild antidepressants I wonder about how safe they are. My brother took Prozac for years for his depression and had problems sleeping, headaches, etc. I wondered about his ability to drive a car, let alone operate an aircraft. Of course he was diagnosed as bipolar / ADHD as well so that didn’t help.

Another thing I’ve noticed recently is all these people who need weed to get by because of a GAD diagnosis. Seems like everyone is suffering from GAD these days. Had a nephew and his girlfriend come up to my place and spend the night a couple months back. She has a medical marijuana card and he vapes like crazy. Couldn’t have anything on the tv with explosions or sirens because it would set off her PTSD. That’s like 75 % of what’s on tv these days! Unbelievable.

 

[leonlowe]

Even some of these mild antidepressants I wonder about how safe they are. My brother took Prozac for years for his depression and had problems sleeping, headaches, etc. I wondered about his ability to drive a car, let alone operate an aircraft. Of course he was diagnosed as bipolar / ADHD as well so that didn’t help.

Another thing I’ve noticed recently is all these people who need weed to get by because of a GAD diagnosis. Seems like everyone is suffering from GAD these days. Had a nephew and his girlfriend come up to my place and spend the night a couple months back. She has a medical marijuana card and he vapes like crazy. Couldn’t have anything on the tv with explosions or sirens because it would set off her PTSD. That’s like 75 % of what’s on tv these days! Unbelievable.

With your logic Elon Musk wouldn’t be able to fly because he uses anti depressants and dude sends rockets to space

 

[Velocity173]

If the FAA knew the true drinking habits of many pilots, the FAA would have their medical pulled for alcohol abuse or dependence.

Alcohol is the #1 means of self medicating for stress, anxiety or depression. That’s because of the stigma, including at the FAA, associated with mental health and getting help.

Also depends on why they’re drinking so much. I’ve known alcoholic pilots and controllers for that matter. It’s not due to anxiety or depression though. They just have an addiction. All the ones I’ve known could keep it in check and not come into work under the influence. Dipping or smoking made up for that. I have no problems working with those individuals.

Now, those that are drinking to hide pain? That’s a problem because that pain carries on after substance abuse. Meaning, they most likely can’t concentrate on the job because of that pain. Like the pilot in question who claims he hadn’t slept in 40 hrs. If that’s true, he was an accident waiting to happen.

 

[Velocity173]

With your logic Elon Musk wouldn’t be able to fly because he uses anti depressants and dude sends rockets to space

It’s not a one size fits all for antidepressants. Some can be handled under monitored conditions for some people, while others not so much.

I also wouldn’t use Musk as a good example of the positive results of prescription drug use. Matt Perry another poor example.

Elon Musk Revealed He Takes Ketamine to Manage Depression

In a recent interview, Elon Musk revealed he takes ketamine to help boost his mental health and treat symptoms of depression. Here’s what health experts think about the drug's potential.

www.healthline.com

 

[Velocity173]

Your comment shows a significant misunderstanding of both mental health and substance use. Let’s break it down:

Alcohol, for instance, is known to be toxic. It dehydrates your skin, impairs your liver’s ability to detoxify your body, and over time, it accelerates the aging process. On top of that, alcohol makes you incoherent and impacts your cognitive function, slows your reflexes, and impairs your judgment. It’s not just a harmless way to unwind; it’s a substance that can deeply affect your mental and physical health.

Now, consider nicotine, which is essentially a mood stabilizer. People use it to manage stress and anxiety, yet it’s widely accepted despite its harmful effects. Vaping and cigarettes are everywhere, but they’re often ignored when it comes to discussions about mental health.

Meanwhile, SSRIs medications for those dealing with the same stressors as above are demonized. The FAA will ground pilots who might be on a low dose of an SSRI, yet they don’t take similar action against those who use alcohol and nicotine products.

So, if we’re talking about dealing with stress and mental health, let’s be consistent. The impact of unregulated substances like alcohol and nicotine is far more destructive than properly prescribed and monitored antidepressants. It’s 2024 and there are significantly BETTER options than alcohol and nicotine. The smarter pilots that actually give a **** are getting screwed. “Everyone drank” is the PROBLEM.

People face real stressors in life, and they deserve more than oversimplified judgments and outdated attitudes.

Not sure what you’re getting at here. I never claimed that alcohol abuse doesn’t have impact on an individual’s overall health. As far as nicotine, I never brought that up.

As far as your comments on SSRIs, they’re antiquated. The FAA has changed it stance years ago and lessened it’s rules even further this year. There’s no reason to hide MILD depression. The pilot in question could easily get treatment while also getting paid disability from his ALPA insurance. This is like pilots who don’t want to want to declare an emergency because of possible ill effects. Usually the consequences are minor.

And yes, people face stressors in life but there are those who can handle it without going to SSRIs. For those that must have them, they need to go about the process with the FAA. It shouldn’t be penciled whipped process because they’re generally safe for most individuals.

FAA removes more aeromedical barriers for mental health concerns

Pilots who are taking an antidepressant will no longer have to undergo routine follow-up neuropsychological evaluations in order to continue flying, the FAA's Office of Aerospace Medicine announced May 31. The agency also approved the use of another antidepressant.

www.aopa.org

FAA Easing Aeromedical Rules for Mental Health Issues | AIN

FAA Revising Mental Health Cert Rules for Pilots

www.ainonline.com

 

[Clip4]

Not everyone has side effects, right? And these patients are also likely getting chemo or other aggressive treatments with far worse side effects. And it’s not like these people are given a medication and sent on their way. They are monitored and constantly evaluated for side effects, changes in physical or mental health, etc.

Comparing a pilot/ATC on this drug to someone that’s also being treated for cancer is a bridge too far.

And I thought you believed the FAA was infallible in their health standards??

Hmm, interesting.

No, they aren’t getting chemo. You obviously know nothing about prostate cancer treatment.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

No, they aren’t getting chemo. You obviously know nothing about prostate cancer treatment.

Guess I don’t, I pray I never have to.

Your example is still absurd as there are comorbidities or contributing factors. Cancer, primary diagnoses…being treated with something causing hot flashes. Given another drug to treat the hot flashes.

I state again, I thought the FAA was infallible when it came to standards and rules? It’s people like me that question non-sensical practices that are wrong, correct?

 

[Learnin’ to fly…]

Well, I may regret posting this, but..

Yes, there are pilots who lie about their health conditions, or avoid treatment, to attain their medical or to avoid putting their medical at risk.

Yes, the FAA policies contribute to these behaviors.

Yes, there are also pilots, or those who wish to become pilots, who are completely honest and transparent in the process. I, personally, believe this group is by FAR the largest.

In the final analysis, we are each responsible for our choices and our integrity - not the FAA. At some point, in this life or the next, I believe we are all held to account.

For non-revenue airman, there are more options for how to play the game to sidestep these challenges, albeit with limited or substantially reduced privileges that do not appear to reduce risk (basic med, sport pilot). The reduced privileges are the ‘price you pay’ to fly without a medical. The FAA says as much about their thought process in the latest MOSAIC NPR.

Could it change? While many say ‘no’ or ‘it will take a long time’ - look at how quickly the FAA moved to change policy regarding mental health policy and transgender/gender dysphoria - and the willingness to grant issue authority to the AME.

Compare the approach for Suicidal Ideation and Gender Dysphoria.

Those with suicidal ideation are 5x more likely to commit suicide and thus can ONLY be issued by the FAA.

Those with Gender Dysphoria are 12x more likely to commit suicide, but, as of 2016 can be issue by an AME.

THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OR ANY COMMENT ON TRANS RIGHTS. It is merely to point out that in a political system, what creates change, or prevents it, is the fear of public perception.

The FAA, and the political establishment would be publicly embarrassed if they allowed a person with SI to fly and it went wrong. The FAA, and the political establishment would be publicly embarrassed if it appeared to the public that they were discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

The Republic, just like capitalism, are flawed systems - that have consistently proven to be better than all other systems. Want things to change? Don’t try to change the FAA. Change public perception.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481605/https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/n...pt-for-adult-transgender-patients/ar-BB1mAhZL

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Also depends on why they’re drinking so much. I’ve known alcoholic pilots and controllers for that matter. It’s not due to anxiety or depression though. They just have an addiction. All the ones I’ve known could keep it in check and not come into work under the influence. Dipping or smoking made up for that. I have no problems working with those individuals.

Now, those that are drinking to hide pain? That’s a problem because that pain carries on after substance abuse. Meaning, they most likely can’t concentrate on the job because of that pain. Like the pilot in question who claims he hadn’t slept in 40 hrs. If that’s true, he was an accident waiting to happen.

By the FAA standards an addiction is a substance abuse problem. That will require revocation of medical, substance abuse treatment, followed by 1-3 years of random alcohol and drug testing.

I agree with you 100% that if it doesn’t interfere with your job, you’re not showing up buzzed/drunk/under the influence, it isn’t any of the FAA’s business. However, that’s not the reality. They assume if you have an abuse problem, you must be chugging tequila behind the yolk/stick. It’s a stupid way of looking at things.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Well, I may regret posting this, but..

Yes, there are pilots who lie about their health conditions, or avoid treatment, to attain their medical or to avoid putting their medical at risk.

Yes, the FAA policies contribute to these behaviors.

Yes, there are also pilots, or those who wish to become pilots, who are completely honest and transparent in the process.

In the final analysis, we are each responsible for our choices and our integrity - not the FAA. At some point, in this life or the next, I believe we are all held to account.

For non-revenue airman, there are more options for how to play the game to sidestep these challenges, albeit with limited or substantially reduced privileges that do not appear to reduce risk (basic med, sport pilot). The reduced privileges are the ‘price you pay’ to fly without a medical. The FAA says as much about their thought process in the latest MOSAIC NPR.

Could it change? While many say ‘no’ or ‘it will take a long time’ - look at how quickly the FAA moved to change policy regarding mental health policy and transgender/gender dysphoria - and the willingness to grant issue authority to the AME.

Compare the approach for Suicidal Ideation and Gender Dysphoria.

Those with suicidal ideation are 5x more likely to commit suicide and thus can ONLY be issued by the FAA.

Those with Gender Dysphoria are 12x more likely to commit suicide, but, as of 2016 can be issue by an AME.

THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OR ANY COMMENT ON TRANS RIGHTS. It is merely to point out that in a political system, what creates change, or prevents it, is the fear of public perception.

The FAA, and the political establishment would be publicly embarrassed if they allowed a person with SI to fly and it went wrong. The FAA, and the political establishment would be publicly embarrassed if it appeared to the public that they were discriminating on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity.

The Republic, just like capitalism, are flawed systems - that have consistently proven to be better than all other systems. Want things to change? Don’t try to change the FAA. Change public perception.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8481605/https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/n...pt-for-adult-transgender-patients/ar-BB1mAhZL

Excellent points, I appreciate the contribution!

 

[Lindberg]

My friend won’t even get vaccinated because he doesn’t want to report it on medXpress. I know another guy that gets treatment in a foreign country… wonder why that is…

Paranoia. I know pilots like that. They're paranoid. Their AME knows pilots lie to him, he just tries to figure out what they're likely lying about and whether it's a big deal.

I see my doctor all the time. I've got plenty of things "wrong" with me, although I'm decently healthy for my age, and I meet the FAA's medical certification standards. I disclose what I'm required to disclose, and I provide the documentation my AME requests. So far, it's worked out, but I'm not substance dependent and I don't have serious mental illness.

There's a lot of projection happening in this thread.

 

[xenadu]

It can be difficult to have a reasonable discussion on this topic.

There are two fundamentally opposed views of the world, what is proper government regulation, and the correct level of safety.

There's a 1950s "THE RIGHT STUFF" approach. A world where Real Men(TM) don't need to see a shrink or take pills and anyone who does should be banned from flying for life.

Those of us on the other side have a modern safety continuum approach that believes potential pilots should be evaluated individually, conditions vary in severity and response to medication, and the FAA's current approach is draconian especially around mental health.



My own personal opinion (and I stress opinion):

I'd prefer to see the requirements for Class 3 relaxed significantly. Unless a condition causes an inability to perceive reality or assess one's own fitness to fly (aka seeing things or hearing voices), or is likely to cause drowsiness/unconsciousness/incapacitation then let the CFI and DPE determine through demonstration that the candidate can operate an airplane. This fits with the FAA's "safety continuum" concept.

Set appropriate restrictions based on medication or condition that can only be relaxed with more hours of experience and/or training to demonstrate the pilot is actually capable of flying safely. I'd do this by groupings, so certain diagnosis/meds would be Group 1, others Group 2, etc. Higher groups would have stronger restrictions. For example maybe Group 3 is limited to 3 or fewer passengers and prohibits flying at night. We could argue all day about the groupings, specific restrictions, and the procedure for lifting restrictions. The point is the FAA could evaluate pilots' actual performance and make adjustments based on real evidence. Once the FAA has real-world data it could then evaluate how that impacts Class 2 or Class 1 and what restrictions should be applied to Part 135 or Part 121 operations.

The current approach of "ever diagnosed with X" or "taking any medication for Y" as completely disqualifying is (IMHO) ridiculous which we know because tens of thousands of pilots are flying with such diagnosis and/or taking such medications without any impact to their accident/incident rate vs the overall GA population.

Again just my personal opinion. I understand but respectfully disagree with the "Right Stuff" view of the world as I'm sure those folks disagree with mine.


edit: As Learnin’ to fly points out some of this is political and/or perception, not based on evidence or actual safety concerns. That is an unfortunate reality of any system involving humans

 

[Clip4]

Guess I don’t, I pray I never have to.

Your example is still absurd as there are comorbidities or contributing factors. Cancer, primary diagnoses…being treated with something causing hot flashes. Given another drug to treat the hot flashes.

I state again, I thought the FAA was infallible when it came to standards and rules? It’s people like me that question non-sensical practices that are wrong, correct?

why would you think the FAA is infallible? The FAA is an organization of people who do the best they can with the resources they are provided. What they do with special issuances is not non-sensical, it does take more time than most believe is acceptable.

No one owes you a pilots certificate or a career. If the process is totally unacceptable to you, find something else in life to make you happy. There are plenty of opportunities out there.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

It can be difficult to have a reasonable discussion on this topic.

There are two fundamentally opposed views of the world, what is proper government regulation, and the correct level of safety.

There's a 1950s "THE RIGHT STUFF" approach. A world where Real Men(TM) don't need to see a shrink or take pills and anyone who does should be banned from flying for life.

Those of us on the other side have a modern safety continuum approach that believes potential pilots should be evaluated individually, conditions vary in severity and response to medication, and the FAA's current approach is draconian especially around mental health.



My own personal opinion (and I stress opinion):

I'd prefer to see the requirements for Class 3 relaxed significantly. Unless a condition causes an inability to perceive reality or assess one's own fitness to fly (aka seeing things or hearing voices), or is likely to cause drowsiness/unconsciousness/incapacitation then let the CFI and DPE determine through demonstration that the candidate can operate an airplane. This fits with the FAA's "safety continuum" concept.

Set appropriate restrictions based on medication or condition that can only be relaxed with more hours of experience and/or training to demonstrate the pilot is actually capable of flying safely. I'd do this by groupings, so certain diagnosis/meds would be Group 1, others Group 2, etc. Higher groups would have stronger restrictions. For example maybe Group 3 is limited to 3 or fewer passengers and prohibits flying at night. We could argue all day about the groupings, specific restrictions, and the procedure for lifting restrictions. The point is the FAA could evaluate pilots' actual performance and make adjustments based on real evidence. Once the FAA has real-world data it could then evaluate how that impacts Class 2 or Class 1 and what restrictions should be applied to Part 135 or Part 121 operations.

The current approach of "ever diagnosed with X" or "taking any medication for Y" as completely disqualifying is (IMHO) ridiculous which we know because tens of thousands of pilots are flying with such diagnosis and/or taking such medications without any impact to their accident/incident rate vs the overall GA population.

Again just my personal opinion. I understand but respectfully disagree with the "Right Stuff" view of the world as I'm sure those folks disagree with mine.


edit: As Learnin’ to fly points out some of this is political and/or perception, not based on evidence or actual safety concerns. That is an unfortunate reality of any system involving humans

Well said and agreed. Almost everything regarding the medical, other than that which can be directly observed by the AME (vision, BP, hearing, etc.) is left to someone being truthful, or not, on the application. For that matter, you still have people flying with no license or medical at all. Unless you're an ATP/commercial pilot, I fail to see why the standards for medical would be much different than that for driving a bus, or conducting a train. The “drivers” in these instances are just as capable of causing death and destruction and with many passengers on board and under their control and responsibility due to physical or mental health issues. Even more, the barrier for getting into one of these positions is much easier/less expensive.

Safety ultimately comes down to the pilot’s ability in the cockpit - training, experience, cockpit management, decision making skills, etc. Being medically fit has no bearing on this piece, which is 95% of the puzzle. How many accident are actually caused by medical conditions vs. pilot error?

 

[mryan75]

This is why no one seeks help and tons of people are lying. All the honest people are truly abused by the FAA. Mentally and financially.

What utter nonsense. Plenty of people seek and get help and return to flying. Very few people lie. Nobody is being abused.

Take responsibility for yourself and your decisions for crying out loud. What children.

 

[MauleSkinner]

I fail to see why the standards for medical would be much different than that for driving a bus, or conducting a train.

What are the differences?

 

[mryan75]

It is the FAA’s fault that they have created a system that discourages telling the truth

You could say that about literally anything. “My employer has created a system that discourages stealing office supplies, so therefore I have to lie about stealing office supplies.”

In literally any other context your argument would sound patently absurd. Because it is patently absurd.

Here’s the bottom line: not everyone is healthy enough to be a pilot. If you go into aviation as a career you know that. You know the risk of losing your medical and thereby your job. You know why I fly a desk? Because I don’t want to take that risk. It’s called being an adult and making decisions and understanding and living with the consequences. Honestly, grow up.

As I said in another of these endless threads, the FAA is moving way faster than the opinions of the people who endlessly complain about the FAA. SSI protocol? Check. ADD fast track? Check. And how much has that changed the complainers’ opinions? Not one iota. It’s just silly. What absolute nonsense.

 

[mryan75]

For the same reasons the FAA doesn’t accept the signature of a CFI (paid from your own pocket) and issue pilot certificates without FAA written and practical tests. The FAA sets the standards and assures the pilots meet the standards for a certificate, not the training CFI

Yep! Remember, there was a day when if your CFI was a DPE they could give you a checkride. There’s a reason they don’t allow that anymore.

 

[mryan75]

In the case of a SI issuance for a medical, some nameless, faceless bureaucrat in OKC or Washington is making a decision on a given case without ever examining the person for him or herself.

Yeah, they’re carelessly and foolishly relying on the data supplied by of some with a decade and a half of specialized training. Humph!

On the one hand you’re saying the FAA docs don’t have any clue what they’re doing, then in the next breath saying that only a hands on evaluation by a clueless FAA doctor could possibly remedy the situation. It’s almost like you’re making stuff up without giving it a whole lot of thought.

 

[mryan75]

No one is asking for the FAA to lower the standards, I haven’t met anybody that has an issue with the standards.

This is an attempt at humor, right?

Wow.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

What utter nonsense. Plenty of people seek and get help and return to flying. Very few people lie. Nobody is being abused.

Take responsibility for yourself and your decisions for crying out loud. What children.

You’re just wrong. If any of what you said were true, there wouldn’t be such a push from congress for the FAA to change the existing practices to help pilots to be honest and report issues. I’ve read the reports, also cited in the subject seried episode, and over 56% of pilots are NOT being truthful about their medical conditions/avoiding medical help for fear of losing medical.

Those people that are complaining are the ones that have been honest, done the right thing and are disclosing medical conditions/seeking treatment and now grounded. It’s completely logical and legitimate to call out a sytem that is causing safety issues by discouraging pilots from coming forward while grounding and potentially ruining careers for those that do.

 

[mryan75]

My friend won’t even get vaccinated because he doesn’t want to report it on medXpress. I know another guy that gets treatment in a foreign country… wonder why that is…

Both of your friends are stupid.

 

[mryan75]

You’re just wrong.

Right. Of course. So pilots don’t seek mental health treatment, get the treatment they need, get healthy and get back to flying? Right. Of course not.

Your arguments are literally laughable.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Right. Of course. So pilots don’t seek mental health treatment, get the treatment they need, get healthy and get back to flying? Right. Of course not.

Your arguments are literally laughable.

Again, you just swept right by the facts. They aren’t my arguments, they are the professionals’ arguments that were developed by the ARC and sent to the FAA.

Go back to sleep.

 

[mryan75]

Again, you just swept right by the facts. They aren’t my arguments, they are the professionals’ arguments that were developed by the ARC and sent to the FAA.

Go back to sleep.

You said “no one” gets help, I said that wasn’t true, that plenty of pilots do and get back to flying, you said I “was just wrong”.

I’ve spent enough time arguing with clueless people on the internet to recognize the constantly moving goalposts. Nice try. You’re wrong, I’m right. And it’s not even debatable. You’re making absolute statements that are literally not true. At all.

You might be used to arguing with people who are asleep. I’m not one of them.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

You have been on here beating up on the FAA for their nonsensical process. So let’s look at what you posted.

“I got on zoloft back in 2020, coming out of Covid, for stress/anxiety related to the presentation and "public" speaking demands of my job. Prior to being prescribed zoloft I was self medicating with alcohol in the evenings, which admittedly was a habit that got worse during lockdown. I did a HIMS round for the SSRI seeking special issuance, which was denied, I assume, after the treating physician's report showed history of alcohol "dependence," general anxiety and panic disorder. The FAA said they would reevaluate upon additional requirements (i.e. more evaluations, alcohol/drug tests, IOP treatment, etc).


During the deferment process I actually self admitted myself to an IOP treatment for alcohol, which FAA said I needed to do this go around, and was sober for 6 months. All this transpired while in the 15+ months process of doing the HIMS/SSRI deferral.

I've since quit the job that was causing so much stress, but I did have a relapse in January and have been on and off of sobriety for the past 6 months - I'm a week and a half into sobriety this time. I met with my AME again and I'm going through the steps requested of the FAA, most of which I've already done other than the mandatory alcohol/drug testing (first random test was today), but I'm wondering:

1. Will this be another 1-2 year process (I'm 44 now) or quicker since it's has already been reviewed once for the SSRI, and
2. Since I'm not longer exposed to the situational/job related anxiety trigger, is it better to get off of the zoloft and start the 60 day window or just stay on it?

It's so disheartening dealing with this when I know I'm a very safe pilot, I already had 200 hours prior to being prescribed zoloft, and gained another ~ 200 hours between 2022 and now, flying with various instructors while working towards my IFR. My medical lapsed and I needed to get current for the IFR check ride, but now I'm over a year past taking the IFR written (got a 97 grade) and that test will likely be expired by the time this is all sorted out.

Thanks in advance for any guidance/feedback.”

You aren’t an FAA victim.

What’s your point? That I was honest with the FAA and that I’m doing everything required of me to get SI? That I’ve proven over and over again that I’m a safe pilot by all metrics other than now having to prove the medical aspect of it which never affected my piloting in the first 400 hours of my flying? That while I drank more than I knew was healthy, that I knew how to separate that from my piloting activities (like Velocity173 stated) but even then saught help?

Or that your attempt to make me look bad is the exact example of why the process IS non-sensical and that many pilots DON’T divulge these things for fear of being where I am currently?

Please enlighten me?

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

You said “no one” gets help, I said that wasn’t true, that plenty of pilots do and get back to flying, you said I “was just wrong”.

I’ve spent enough time arguing with clueless people on the internet to recognize the constantly moving goalposts. Nice try. You’re wrong, I’m right. And it’s not even debatable. You’re making absolute statements that are literally not true. At all.

You might be used to arguing with people who are asleep. I’m not one of them.

You said “very few people lie.” I’d say over 1 out of 2 pilots not being truthful in a sample set of almost 4,000 pilots isn’t “very few."

Go back to sleep.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

What are the differences?

For bus and truck drivers, by regulation, Specific Medically Disqualifying Conditions Found Under 49 CFR 391.41 are Hearing Loss, Vision Loss, Epilepsy and Insulin Use. There are exemptions allowing diabetes and vision issues.

For mental health, schizoaffective disorder and use of SSRIs are fine as long as applicant is being treated and is accompanied with letter from treating physician that the condition(s) are stable and under control.

Anything else?

 

[mandm]

Calm down everyone.

The problem is the potential delays, unknowns and expenses involved with getting medical treatment. If people say they never experienced over drinking, depression and trying some recreational items then I’ll call BS. It’s a normal part of life. Well maybe I went to a big 10 college and your viewpoint might be different. What’s wrong with having drinks after work in the evening like another poster said? And I think having access to anxiety meds can help some people when having a difficult time, it’s up to the pilot to exercise judgment about when they are fit for work or sitting in the jumpseat. This guy was faced with the decision of driving home himself or taking an Uber and he opted to drive himself home when he was not fit.

The system is set up to waste your time and take your money, that’s the issue. Make it easier and lessen the unknowns.

 

[MauleSkinner]

For bus and truck drivers, by regulation, Specific Medically Disqualifying Conditions Found Under 49 CFR 391.41 are Hearing Loss, Vision Loss, Epilepsy and Insulin Use. There are exemptions allowing diabetes and vision issues.

Sounds like aviation.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Sounds like aviation.

Conveniently left out "For mental health, schizoaffective disorder and use of SSRIs are fine as long as applicant is being treated and is accompanied with letter from treating physician that the condition(s) are stable and under control."

Oh, and it doesn’t take 12-18 months for the exemption and there are 1.4M bus and truck drivers in the US vs 450K private, commercial and ATP pilots in the US.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Conveniently left out "For mental health, schizoaffective disorder and use of SSRIs are fine as long as applicant is being treated and is accompanied with letter from treating physician that the condition(s) are stable and under control."

Oh, and it doesn’t take 12-18 months for the exemption and there are 1.4M bus and truck drivers in the US vs 450K private, commercial and ATP pilots in the US.

So there’s one medical difference, other than the time issue. Doesn’t sound like “the standards are much different” to me.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

So there’s one medical difference, other than the time issue. Doesn’t sound like “the standards are much different” to me.

Uh, that’s the entire subject matter of this thread. Just a tad relevant.

Good talk, Russ.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Uh, that’s the entire subject matter of this thread. Just a tad relevant.

Good talk, Russ.

Relevant, but not “much different”.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Relevant, but not “much different”.

Whatever, good night.

 

[Lindberg]

What’s your point? That I was honest with the FAA and that I’m doing everything required of me to get SI? That I’ve proven over and over again that I’m a safe pilot by all metrics other than now having to prove the medical aspect of it which never affected my piloting in the first 400 hours of my flying? That while I drank more than I knew was healthy, that I knew how to separate that from my piloting activities (like Velocity173 stated) but even then saught help?

Am I confusing you with someone else, or did you fail to disclose alcohol dependence that was subsequently reported to the FAA by your evaluator after you applied for an SI?

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Am I confusing you with someone else, or did you fail to disclose alcohol dependence that was subsequently reported to the FAA by your evaluator after you applied for an SI?

Guess you’re confused. I’ve never been diagnosed with alcohol dependence, just GAD (hence zoloft prescription) related to work stress/presentation anxiety, but the treating physician seemed to write down anything and everything about my past and to cope with that…I have a HIMS evaluation next months, so we’ll see what they say about the alcohol. I haven’t seen the treating physicians report so I have no idea what they wrote down to justify prescribing zoloft. It was during 2020 covid lockdowns so it was all virtual.

I’d imagine if I’d “failed to disclose” something it would be something different than reconsideration after further evaluations.

 

[Clip4]

Guess you’re confused. I’ve never been diagnosed with alcohol dependence, just GAD (hence zoloft prescription) related to work stress/presentation anxiety, but the treating physician seemed to write down anything and everything about my past and to cope with that…I have a HIMS evaluation next months, so we’ll see what they say about the alcohol. I haven’t seen the treating physicians report so I have no idea what they wrote down to justify prescribing zoloft. It was during 2020 covid lockdowns so it was all virtual.

I’d imagine if I’d “failed to disclose” something it would be something different than reconsideration after further evaluations.

Really? If a treating physicians report says you have a history of alcohol dependence, you have been diagnosed.

“…the treating physician's report showed history of alcohol "dependence," general anxiety and panic disorder.”
“During the deferment process I actually self admitted myself to an IOP treatment for alcohol, which FAA said I needed to do this go around, and was sober for 6 months”
“I did have a relapse in January and have been on and off of sobriety for the past 6 months - I'm a week and a half into sobriety this time. I met with my AME again and I'm going through the steps requested of the FAA, most of which I've already done other than the mandatory alcohol/drug testing (first random test was today),”

 

[Lindberg]

Guess you’re confused. I’ve never been diagnosed with alcohol dependence, just GAD (hence zoloft prescription) related to work stress/presentation anxiety, but the treating physician seemed to write down anything and everything about my past and to cope with that…I have a HIMS evaluation next months, so we’ll see what they say about the alcohol. I haven’t seen the treating physicians report so I have no idea what they wrote down to justify prescribing zoloft. It was during 2020 covid lockdowns so it was all virtual.

I’d imagine if I’d “failed to disclose” something it would be something different than reconsideration after further evaluations.

You made me go back and look for this post:

I got on zoloft back in 2020, coming out of Covid, for stress/anxiety related to the presentation and "public" speaking demands of my job. Prior to being prescribed zoloft I was self medicating with alcohol in the evenings, which admittedly was a habit that got worse during lockdown. I did a HIMS round for the SSRI seeking special issuance, which was denied, I assume, after the treating physician's report showed history of alcohol "dependence," general anxiety and panic disorder. The FAA said they would reevaluate upon additional requirements (i.e. more evaluations, alcohol/drug tests, IOP treatment, etc).

. . .

I've since quit the job that was causing so much stress, but I did have a relapse in January and have been on and off of sobriety for the past 6 months - I'm a week and a half into sobriety this time.

I got the impression you were going through the SI process for GAD and SSRI when the treating physician's report revealed a history of alcohol dependence, which led to the SI process for alcohol dependence, during which you relapsed. If I'm reading all that correctly, you're almost two years into the SI process, but you've only got three months of sobriety.

I applaud you for doing the work, but I don't think your story is a good example of either full disclosure or unreasonable FAA delay.

 

[Clip4]

By the FAA standards an addiction is a substance abuse problem. That will require revocation of medical, substance abuse treatment, followed by 1-3 years of random alcohol and drug testing.

I agree with you 100% that if it doesn’t interfere with your job, you’re not showing up buzzed/drunk/under the influence, it isn’t any of the FAA’s business. However, that’s not the reality. They assume if you have an abuse problem, you must be chugging tequila behind the yolk/stick. It’s a stupid way of looking at things.

FAA understands crossing the thin line between a functioning alcoholic and a non functioning alcoholic is not a matter of if, but when. The fact you were placed in a program and can’t give up drinking confirms you have a dependance.