odachoo
Pre-Flight
I heard ATC asking pilot "Squaring base"
what does that mean ?
what does that mean ?
What does aTC wants when asking "Squaring base"
- Thread starter odachoo
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Brad Z
Final Approach
I heard ATC asking pilot "Squaring base"
what does that mean ?
Usually if you're approaching the airport at an angle somewhere between a base leg and a straight in, they may ask you to square the base to allow better sequencing of aircraft.
Based on the context as I've heard it, they want you to turn perpendicular towards final and join the final with a 90° turn.
Yep. This is how I interpret is as well
poadeleted20
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Me, three.
petrolero
Pattern Altitude
Our airport often says "square your base-to-final" in case you ever hear it that way... and I interpret it as others have stated.
sixpacker
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Sixpacker
Sometimes the opposite is true. If the airport is busy and the tower controller wants to get you in front of someone coming straight in they will tell you "proceed to the numbers" and stop that time wasting base squaring thing you're doing.
The tow pilot used to come in, fairly low, cross over the field at 90 degrees, enter the "downwind" and make a 180 degree turn and finish it just coming over the fence and wheel land it on the end of the grass strip. I asked him about and he said "well, im flying a downwind base and final, what more do you want?" (all on one turn). So I tried it (when no one was around). It was kind of fun.
Van Johnston
Pattern Altitude
I think I am missing something. Please help me understand...isn't that what you would do if you were somewhere between a base and a straight in, and they told you to do a straight in?
mtuomi
En-Route
Even though the US has by far the best ATC system in the world, these sort of non-standard phrases should be phased out sooner rather than later.
mtuomi
En-Route
Is it in the ATC handbook?
BigBadLou
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Lou
Maybe if it was formulated in English, we could choose to understand it.
What does aTC wants when asking "Squaring base" ... eet nott inglesh.
But what do we know, most of us are just pilots with extreme CDO ...
nimdabew
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nimdabew
This is one of those questions that can mean different things to many people. Even talking to controllers in the same tower can mean different thing . Ever heard of "report a 2-mile left/right base"? Even the controller I was talking to said it meant different things when it is said by two different controllers.
I teach square your base as make a 90 degree turn to final and make it as close to a normal downwind/base leg as possible. No controller has told me to write down a number yet, but YMMV.
I teach square your base as make a 90 degree turn to final and make it as close to a normal downwind/base leg as possible. No controller has told me to write down a number yet, but YMMV.
Cpt_Kirk
En-Route
You're in the NYC area. You know those controllers do not use standard phraseology. They use what they need to get the point across.
You're goal is to make it from point A to B. They're there to help and provide a service. Why make it harder for them?
This is true. People make aviation hard.
Position yourself so you will enter the pattern on a base leg and call 2 miles from the field?
mtuomi
En-Route
I know. They really should. I've posted about a case where their point was not what everyone here thought it was. Standard = good.
It means he would rather be flying that ATCing.
Cpt_Kirk
En-Route
I don't disagree.
Captain
Final Approach
Not always. I remember a story of a Viet Nam pilot in a group that had taken damage. The pilot telling the story said he had alarms going off and inbound migs. He commented that the standard call would have been "dusty54, overlord contact delta niner two two bearing 330 closing four seven zero knots". He said if the controller had said that he would have died.
What the controller said instead knowing the situation and how saturated the pilot was was, "Joe, ya got migs at three O'Clock".
The pilot stated that nonstandard communication cut through the fog of war and got his attention fast enough he was able to react.
Someone here might know the details of this, I'd be interested. Everything above was basically made up by me to get the gist across. Might even have the wrong war but the point remains. Wish I could remember who that was...
What the controller said instead knowing the situation and how saturated the pilot was was, "Joe, ya got migs at three O'Clock".
The pilot stated that nonstandard communication cut through the fog of war and got his attention fast enough he was able to react.
Someone here might know the details of this, I'd be interested. Everything above was basically made up by me to get the gist across. Might even have the wrong war but the point remains. Wish I could remember who that was...
Brad Z
Final Approach
Not necessarily. Imagine you're approaching the numbers for runway 27, and you're 5 miles out on a 315 degree bearing to the airport, if cleared for a straight in you might fly a course of 325 and intercept the final approach course on short final.
Being told told to square your base leg would require turning to a course of 360 at some point and then making a 90 degree turn to the left for final.
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Velocity173
Sounds like you're referring to the Steve Richie story in how he got one of his Migs. Instead of "Disco" giving him a full report on Migs in his area, he simply said "Steve, two miles north of ya." The time saved allowed him to reverse course on the Mig.
Cpt_Kirk
En-Route
I haven't found the actual quote, but this video is pretty cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF8EVqPBSmI
nimdabew
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nimdabew
Is it a normal length final and 2 miles from the final turn, a 2 mile final but poisiion on a "standard" base, as you said a 2 mile distance from the field, on the base leg, or something else?
Cpt_Kirk
En-Route
The first one. That second scenario would be a 2-mile final.
I get this call (albeit a 3-mile base) 90% of the time I'm inbound to my home field. I do what the first scenario implies.
I see it more as an, "in-range" call more than anything and that they will give you more pertinent instructions closer in.
nimdabew
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nimdabew
Yes and that is how I see it as well. Those were the examples the controller on the phone gave to me when I called him up with the question.
tehmightypirate
Line Up and Wait
I can understand the OPs confusion as I was once in a squared base leg with an air guard helicopter very close on a straight in final and a regional jet that just departed. I was cleared to land, no. 1, and told to square my base. I was confused about that call since I was on a squared base already but later realized that he wanted to make sure I didn't cut the corner to stay away from the helicopter (who did a parallel landing with me onto the taxiway, very cool) and then get too close to the regional jets wake turbulence. Despite knowing that the helicopter had me in sight and could go much slower than me I still didn't like the idea of him being right on my tail so I might have cheated a bit on the square part.
oilburner
Pre-takeoff checklist
I practice T&Gs at a quiet nearby class D airfield and get the "call 2 mile base" likely because the tower doesn't have radar.
Helps him know where to spot me, I figure.
Helps him know where to spot me, I figure.
Cpt_Kirk
En-Route
I've toured my tower about three times now and they do have radar (it's a feed from APP/DEP) and I still get the call.
Stewartb
Final Approach
Around here being told to square it up means just that. We're operating very close between float planes and wheel planes and the controllers prefer guys to be where they're supposed to be and maneuver predictably. If they want to make space they tell us to extend the downwind or swing wide on downwind depending on the situation. Short approaches mean expedite landing and clearing the runway and then we're essentially approved to deviate from the standard pattern.
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Velocity173
I've toured my tower about three times now and they do have radar (it's a feed from APP/DEP) and I still get the call.
The call to report base is for a few reasons. None deal with radar. 1) It's busy and the controller wants the report as to not forget about you. 2) It's not busy, but they're watching TV and they need the report as to not forget about you. 3) You're doing closed traffic and the controller is issuing the "report (position if required)"
Cpt_Kirk
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Velocity173
It's always #2.
Actually I think that stuff is a big no no these days. We used to watch TV in the tower but the supervisor determined based on traffic when to turn it off. Nowadays they're very restricted on distractions.