What do you do with fuel from pre-flight

Fly-Fla

Fly-Fla

Pre-Flight
Joined
Feb 8, 2012
Messages
96
Location
Tallahassee, FL
Display Name
Display name:
Fly-Fla
I'm two weeks away from the check flight for my PPL and have been going over everything to prepare. I've had three flight instructors and two different planes during my journey which has caused a few differences in opinion on training. One issue is in pulling fuel from the sumps and drains during pre-flight. On the cessna 172SP I flew my instructor had me use a large Gatts jar and pour the fuel back into the tanks when I was checking them for fuel level. The plane I currently fly is a 172P with only three drains and the sump and my instructor says to never put the fuel back in the plane. I've done some searches but I'm not sure what is correct in this situation. Any advice?
 
I dump it in a can and use it in the tow-motor.

Fly-Fla said:
I'm two weeks away from the check flight for my PPL and have been going over everything to prepare. I've had three flight instructors and two different planes during my journey which has caused a few differences in opinion on training. One issue is in pulling fuel from the sumps and drains during pre-flight. On the cessna 172SP I flew my instructor had me use a large Gatts jar and pour the fuel back into the tanks when I was checking them for fuel level. The plane I currently fly is a 172P with only three drains and the sump and my instructor says to never put the fuel back in the plane. I've done some searches but I'm not sure what is correct in this situation. Any advice?
Click to expand...
 
There is no "correct" answer, only varied opinions.

Most commercial operators do not use sumped fuel. I'm sure it is against FAR's, but I'm too lazy to look it up. The airlines definately cannot reuse the fuel. Your local FBO doesn't operate under 135 or 121, so I'd think its up to you.

Does the jar have a filter? Is it working? Is the fuel visibly contaminated? Are you that cheap that you have to put a couple ounces of fuel back in the plane? Nothing wrong with gatts jars, but I never used them.

Personally, for GA aircraft, I dump it on the weeds growing out of the cracks in the pavement on the ramp.

When I pumped gas at the airport I used the truck sumped fuel in my Mustang.
I've also seen Jet A waste fuel used in home kerosene heaters.
 
Buy a gatts jar with the filter and put it back in the plane if it is not contaminated with water...or put it to use somewhere else...

No real right and wrong answer here...
 
Last edited:
Fly-Fla;1102275 On the cessna 172SP I flew my instructor had me use a large Gatts jar and pour the fuel back into the tanks when I was checking them for fuel level. The plane I currently fly is a 172P with only three drains and the sump and my instructor says to never put the fuel back in the plane. . . Any advice?[/QUOTE said:
Yes: ask instructor #2 WHY you should not pour it back into the tank. The sumping of fuel is to look for visible contaminants (and for smelling the fuel, if that is your habit). If there are no visible contaminants, there is absolutely now reason why it should not go back in the tank (was it somehow spoiled in the few seconds it took to inspect it?).

EPA regulations deter intentional spilling of fuel onto the ground. I do not worry much about that when pulling the gascolator drain, as attempting to capture that fuel would be quite difficult. But sure, as for the tank or header drains, use a GATTS jar and pour it back into the tank.

I might use Wayne's suggestion of using the fuel in a tug, if I had a tug.

Wells
Click to expand...
 
Check local laws too. For example, Florida has a rather hefty fine (up to $50,000) for dumping fuel on the ground that was drained during pre-flight.

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/aviation/environment.shtm

Personally, if it's not contaminated, I put it back into the tank. Saves a loooong walk to the disposal site.
 
The point of the GATS jar is to remove sediment and small amounts of water from the fuel, so you can reuse it.

You can dump it, but NOT on the ground. That's illegal dumping of toxic waste. There should be a waste dump can somewhere. If there isn't, bring it up with the airport manager.
 
upstateny said:
Check local laws too. For example, Florida has a rather hefty fine (up to $50,000) for dumping fuel on the ground that was drained during pre-flight.

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/aviation/environment.shtm

Personally, if it's not contaminated, I put it back into the tank. Saves a loooong walk to the disposal site.
Click to expand...

You beat me to it! Florida is pretty strict about dumping fuel, all airports have a bin to pour it in, usually no more than a couple hundred yards from where you're parked.:mad2: I pour it back in when I'm in Florida. :D
 
I saw a video on youtube of the first solo flight of this young lady dumping fuel everywhere on ground and the CFI (captain Kirk) haha.. never said anything, and that was in California.:nono:
 
It's leaded gasoline. Lead is pretty nasty stuff. I don't want to contribute to putting any more into the groundwater (or storm drain runoff) than I can avoid. It may not be in the FARs, but it's likely addressed somewhere in your local or state laws.

To me, it's not a matter of being so cheap that I need to re-use an ounce of (uncontaminated) fuel, but that I'm not so lazy to figure out what to do with a jar full of toxic waste.

No way I'm pouring that in the ground. Most airports I've seen (east coast) have big signs about all the laws you are violating if you dump gas, and they have a collection area if you can't or won't re-use.
 
I use a GATTS and put it back in. Never have seen any of my instructors do it any other way. As far as putting it into my tow will the lead have any effect on the engine.

Then again you can always drink it and do a Daffy Duck trick, but only once!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEYYYMuwCyA
 
Do not dump the fuel anywhere on the ramp. Either put it back in the tank, where it belongs - or swallow it.

If the fuel in the sump can is contaminated, then I guess you're not going to USE THE FUEL in the plane either. So put the contaminated fuel back in the tank with the rest of it.
 
dukeblue219 said:
It's leaded gasoline. Lead is pretty nasty stuff.
Click to expand...

I burn mogas. :dunno:

If you are worried about lead in the environment (and we should be) then why do you fly a plane that burns leaded fuel? Where do you think the lead goes after it is burned? :confused:
 
Last edited:
Kelvin said:
No real right and wrong answer here...
Click to expand...
I think the wrong answer is the one that involves you polluting the underground water for everybody else that uses the aquifer. The wrong answer also happens to involve being one more reason for the NIMBY's to complain about the local airport.

Don't dump the fuel on the ground.
 
Concorde said:
I saw a video on youtube of the first solo flight of this young lady dumping fuel everywhere on ground and the CFI (captain Kirk) haha.. never said anything, and that was in California.:nono:
Click to expand...

At my previous airport right in the heart of San Diego, there were no waste fuel cans or any other disposal available - most folks dumped their fuel all over the ramp and no one seemed to care. Not saying it is right, but that is how it is done there....at least until someone actually makes a stink about it which hadn't happened yet.
 
I would much prefer not to dump fuel on the ramp...but I can't recall an airport other than in Florida that has a place to put sumped fuel...maybe I am not paying attention sice I have me one of those fancy Gatts jars...
 
Archammer said:
If the fuel in the sump can is contaminated, then I guess you're not going to USE THE FUEL in the plane either. So put the contaminated fuel back in the tank with the rest of it.
Click to expand...
You do understand how fuel sump drains work right? The contaminants collect at the low point (drain) and you drain it until the sample is clean. You don't discard the whole tank, because you got a bad sample.
 
Archammer said:
Do not dump the fuel anywhere on the ramp. Either put it back in the tank, where it belongs - or swallow it.

If the fuel in the sump can is contaminated, then I guess you're not going to USE THE FUEL in the plane either. So put the contaminated fuel back in the tank with the rest of it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely correct!
If you're coming up with contaminated fuel you're not going to fly with that tank of fuel until the problem is corrected so you might as well dump it into a proper disposal tank.

infotango said:
I think the wrong answer is the one that involves you polluting the underground water for everybody else that uses the aquifer. The wrong answer also happens to involve being one more reason for the NIMBY's to complain about the local airport.

Don't dump the fuel on the ground.
Click to expand...
For those that may not be familiar with the term NIMBY, it means Not In My Back Yard.
It is the mantra used by those that don't want an airport in their backyard and are looking for any excuse to close it down, like the improper dumping of fuel.

dukeblue219 said:
It's leaded gasoline. Lead is pretty nasty stuff. I don't want to contribute to putting any more into the groundwater (or storm drain runoff) than I can avoid. It may not be in the FARs, but it's likely addressed somewhere in your local or state laws.

To me, it's not a matter of being so cheap that I need to re-use an ounce of (uncontaminated) fuel, but that I'm not so lazy to figure out what to do with a jar full of toxic waste.

No way I'm pouring that in the ground. Most airports I've seen (east coast) have big signs about all the laws you are violating if you dump gas, and they have a collection area if you can't or won't re-use.
Click to expand...
As it has already been stated the fines can be pretty steep as they should be.

upstateny said:
Check local laws too. For example, Florida has a rather hefty fine (up to $50,000) for dumping fuel on the ground that was drained during pre-flight.

http://www.dot.state.fl.us/aviation/environment.shtm

Personally, if it's not contaminated, I put it back into the tank. Saves a loooong walk to the disposal site.
Click to expand...
Perfect example of a hefty fine.

The Gatts Jar also allows you to take a larger sampling of your fuel and if used properly and kept in clean condition there is no reason you should have an issue with pouring back into your tanks.
 
Last edited:
flav8r said:
Absolutely correct!
If you're coming up with contaminated fuel you're not going to fly with that tank of fuel until the problem is corrected so you might as well dump it back in the tank.
Click to expand...
So, uh, what do you do when you find a little water or sediment in your sample? Call the shop and tell them to fix it???



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
I throw it on the ramp.

All the comments about toxic waste are interesting. Evaporating a 1/2 cup on the ramp is criminal, flying above the city and atomizing gallons is a fun way to spend an afternoon.
 
Alexb2000 said:
I throw it on the ramp.

All the comments about toxic waste are interesting. Evaporating a 1/2 cup on the ramp is criminal, flying above the city and atomizing gallons is a fun way to spend an afternoon.
Click to expand...
No one ever confused the EPA with logic.
 
Fearless Tower said:
No one ever confused the EPA with logic.
Click to expand...

I have 18 years of experience cleaning up hazardous waste sites (hundreds of them), most of them fuel-related releases. I don't disagree that logic and the EPA (or many other environmental enforcement agencies) often don't meet. That being said, all fuels are toxic and carcinogenic, and avgas probably a bit more so than regular auto gas.

First, I use a GATTs jar, and if the sample is clean, it goes back in the tank. If it's only a little bit of water or debris, I'll drain the clean portion back in the tank through the GATTs screen, and discard the rest as haz waste. Then I thoroughly clean the GATTs jar.

When you dump fuel on the ground, it isn't just the lead that's the problem, it's the benzene and a bunch of other components which get into the water. Benzene is the worst, as it often migrates farther from the release point in groundwater than the other contaminants, and, by concentration, is probably the most toxic/carcinogenic of the fuel components.

If you do dump it on the ground (which I don't advocate, unless you want to keep me well employed into my retirement years), the safest thing to do is dump it on hot asphalt, with no cracks. That will cause the fuel to vaporize, and most of the harmful components would degrade quickly in air. The lead would still get into the pavement, and will likely run off during rain events (which is a bad thing). If you dump it on a crack or dirt/grass, much more of the volatile components would find their way into the subsurface and (eventually) groundwater.
 
I paid good money for that fuel so as long as it's clean, I dump it back in the tank.
 
At my hangar it goes in the tug, if I'm away from home back in the tanks.
 
My current instructor does not advocate dumping the fuel on the ground, but that it should be dumped into the tank at the airport instead of back into the plane. We have a pull through shade hanger so no need for a tug to fuel. My last instructor taught me to pour the clean fuel through the Gatts jar filter screen back into the tank. To save time on the check flight I will probably put the fuel back into the plane to save the walk back to the airport tank. Thanks for the feedback.
 
Most of the time it goes back in the tank, but I have dispersed it on the ground also. Either way, do what you want.
 
At my hangar I used my sump drain fuel samples as a cleaner. Put into a spray bottle and used it as a cleaner for belly oil residue, cleaning engines, engine parts, etc.
 
RotorAndWing said:
At my hangar I used my sump drain fuel samples as a cleaner. Put into a spray bottle and used it as a cleaner for belly oil residue, cleaning engines, engine parts, etc.
Click to expand...

When the guy I was sharing a hangar with did that (used an airgun rather than a spray bottle) I told him that when he torched himself off that I would save my airplane then call 911 in that order.

100LL is not a safe cleaning solvent - no matter how many A&Ps think otherwise.
 
Clark1961 said:
When the guy I was sharing a hangar with did that (used an airgun rather than a spray bottle) I told him that when he torched himself off that I would save my airplane then call 911 in that order.

100LL is not a safe cleaning solvent - no matter how many A&Ps think otherwise.
Click to expand...

Safety is the result of the one using it to know what and how to use it correctly.
 
Back in the tank. When we were operating out of WPAFB, the Hazmat folks would give a presentation at one of our monthly safety meetings about how to handle fuel spills and that included GATT jar contents.

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
Back in the tank. When we were operating out of WPAFB, the Hazmat folks would give a presentation at one of our monthly safety meetings about how to handle fuel spills and that included GATT jar contents.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Being on an Air Force base I'm surprised that they didn't have a DOD approved storage tank for it, an SOP written and then approved by the base Commander requiring a fire guard standing by with a fire extinguisher and 2 specialist in hazmat suits to handle the sample and pour it into the tank.........along with the proper forms to be filed in triplicate to document the handling. :rolleyes2: :rofl:
 
My CFI says to pour the fuel back in the tanks, if uncontaminated. (normal fuel strainer no screen)
DPE on my checkride said to never ever do that... I wasn't about to argue with him plus dumping the avgas on the ground was a good way to conceal me P***ing myself :lol:

Although I rent wet, I still put fuel back in the tanks, the airport I'm at seems to have very clean fuel never found contaminants yet.
 
We keep old plastic coffee cans around the ramp and hangars to dispose of it, but encourage dumping it into one of the tugs if close by. With my Mooney, I used to put them in my PowerTow tug. Rarely had to add any other fuel. I'm not a rabid greenie, but I can see the arguments for not dumping it on the ground as we always did years ago. I've heard from reliable sources its pretty hard on asphalt.
 
Actually, you guys are making the logical error here.

You claim:

(1) X (dumping a little fuel on the ground) is less pernicious than Y (flying)
(2) Y is not prohibited
Therefore (3) X should not be prohibited

The premises are correct but the argument is invalid, and therefore unsound, because it is not the case that because one cannot COMPLETELY mitigate bad things implies that one should not make any efforts to do so. We want to fly and this is something which we have jointly agreed we should be permitted to do. Prohibition of Y prevents this, so Y cannot be prohibited. But we can prohibit X consistent with flying.

This is not a normative argument for the prohibition of dumping fuel on the ground; I am simply pointing out that it is not the case that the EPA is making a logical error. You are making a logical error.



Fearless Tower said:
No one ever confused the EPA with logic.
Click to expand...
 
Tommy3 said:
Actually, you guys are making the logical error here.

You claim:

(1) X (dumping a little fuel on the ground) is less pernicious than Y (flying)
(2) Y is not prohibited
Therefore (3) X should not be prohibited

The premises are correct but the argument is invalid, and therefore unsound, because it is not the case that because one cannot COMPLETELY mitigate bad things implies that one should not make any efforts to do so. We want to fly and this is something which we have jointly agreed we should be permitted to do. Prohibition of Y prevents this, so Y cannot be prohibited. But we can prohibit X consistent with flying.

This is not a normative argument for the prohibition of dumping fuel on the ground; I am simply pointing out that it is not the case that the EPA is making a logical error. You are making a logical error.
Click to expand...

Hang on there bub, I wasn't claiming anything...just making a tongue in cheek comment.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top