What can I be doing wrong on power off stalls?

LongRoadBob

LongRoadBob

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I’ve been a student for a while now, but have had problems booking regularly. Lots of things, weather, health, availability of CFI’s, etc.

A few flight back when I was learning power off stalls, I didn’t quite do it right (same problem first time as I have now suddenly) but the flight after it went ok. We did a number of full stalls and I recovered ok.

It’s been months, and I flew yesterday, we did stalls and I kept going into a dive from the stall. I did a number of stalls, and then the CFI demonstrated, and I tried some more, but every time I was just trying to relieve the back pressure as the nose dropped, and suddenly (felt like) am looking down at the ground, and the CFI recovered.

I fly tomorrow with him again and of course am going to ask what he thought the problem is. But it was hectic after our flight with other students waiting and we really didn’t go into it.

I wasn’t scared of the stall, I ease back the yoke, feel and hear that a stall is imminent, and the nose drops and I don’t know what I do...I thought I was just relieving some back pressure, not like I was pushing the yoke, but every time we are suddenly in a dive.

I know it is hard to dissect from just what I write, but what will cause that?

Am I reacting too quickly, or too slowly ? I thought that even if I just let go of the yoke it would recover. I haven’t let go of it and it is possible I am pushing it, but I am not aware of it. And my intention is not to.

The hour was up before I got it right, and also I was getting a bit queasy. So we flew back and landed. Guessing this might be a common mistake, but I had done s lot better before.

So when you do a full stall in a Cessna 172, are you just slightly relieving back pressure, or maybe doing it slowly instead of abruptly? Is it just a slight relaxation (but not total) of the yoke?

I felt like I really didn’t have my “head in the game”, but we are going to fly tomorrow again so I am looking for tips.
 
What are you doing with pitch trim prior to the stall? If it’s still trimmed for cruise, merely releasing back pressure could allow the nose to go down significantly.

Just a thought.
 
A power off stall is also sometimes called an approach to landing stall. Try treating the maneuver like you accidentally got too slow in the pattern and balance minimizing altitude loss against getting the wing flying again.
 
Ah, your post takes me back to 1960, when I was a student pilot on floats in Juneau. My instructor told me to lower the nose when the stall occurred, and the next thing he knew we were heading straight down toward Tee Harbor, with dust, ashes, and a pair of pliers falling out of the tail cone and onto the panel. He stuck with me, God bless him. I never had a student do that to me, because I approached teaching stalls very gingerly, like porcupines make love.

Just relax back pressure and let the nose fall through on its own...when the wing begins flying again you will feel it in your butt. No need to let the nose get more than ten degrees below the horizon.

As an instructor, during stall introduction I relied on the falling leaf exercise: carb heat on, power back to idle, keep the airplane level as long as possible but relax back pressure as soon as you feel the "burble" through the yoke. The burble occurs when the wing's angle of attack reaches the point where the boundary layer of air flowing over the top surface of the wing begins to detach, sending disturbed air back to the horizontal stabilizer. Let the plane enter a gentle descent (not dive) until you feel the force of gravity push you down into your seat....when it does, add back pressure to return to level flight and simultaneously add power to the power setting you were using before beginning the exercise. Rinse and repeat until stalls are absolutely boring.

Bob
 
MauleSkinner said:
What are you doing with pitch trim prior to the stall? If it’s still trimmed for cruise, merely releasing back pressure could allow the nose to go down significantly.

Just a thought.
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Good point, and I should know this, but I was not paying attention to the trim at that point. I believe we were not in cruise, but trimmed for full throttle straight and level at that point where he asked if I would do storm stalls. But also he did demonstrate it twice with the same trim setting and recovered ok.

bobmrg said:
Ah, your post takes me back to 1960, when I was a student pilot on floats in Juneau. My instructor told me to lower the nose when the stall occurred, and the next thing he knew we were heading straight down toward Tee Harbor, with dust, ashes, and a pair of pliers falling out of the tail cone and onto the panel. He stuck with me, God bless him. I never had a student do that to me, because I approached teaching stalls very gingerly, like porcupines make love.

Just relax back pressure and let the nose fall through on its own...when the wing begins flying again you will feel it in your butt. No need to let the nose get more than ten degrees below the horizon.

As an instructor, during stall introduction I relied on the falling leaf exercise: carb heat on, power back to idle, keep the airplane level as long as possible but relax back pressure as soon as you feel the "burble" through the yoke. The burble occurs when the wing's angle of attack reaches the point where the boundary layer of air flowing over the top surface of the wing begins to detach, sending disturbed air back to the horizontal stabilizer. Let the plane enter a gentle descent (not dive) until you feel the force of gravity push you down into your seat....when it does, add back pressure to return to level flight and simultaneously add power to the power setting you were using before beginning the exercise. Rinse and repeat until stalls are absolutely boring.

Bob
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Thanks Bob, I’ve reread this a few times now, good advice, I appreciate it. When you say relax back pressure I have a picture on my mind of just (slowly?) easing my fingers from the yoke. Is that what you mean? If I do that too quickly could that also cause a dive? Is it also possible I am not being quick enough on giving full throttle, could that also be contributing? I don’t think it should because a you say, the wing has lost lift, and should be enough with just lowering AOA to (but not pushing on the yoke) by relaxing the yoke. As I understand the full throttle throttle is to get positive climb again as soon as possible. I have a feeling I was slo on the throttle though.

Thanks all!
 
If you let the stall actually occur the nose will drop pretty good all on its own. If you detect the stall is about to occur and release the back pressure before it breaks, while it’s still buffeting, then the nose just lowers. Maybe you were just actually forcing the stall. Which isn’t a bad thing as long as you recover properly. (Your instructor or examiner may disagree, I certainly don’t know the standards there, but while it’s good experience to be able to recover from the actual stall, they may not want you to let it actually stall)
 
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I’m confused what the OP is trying to avoid? The nose drops in a stall. It’s just part of the maneuver.
 
I am NOT an instructor.

What are you trying to be taught? To recognize and either avoid or prevent a stall, right?

If the nose drops and you lose altitude, you’ve gone too far? You didn’t react quickly enough to avoid/prevent or recover/minimize.

Learn to recognize and anticipate? Act quickly, proactively, and maybe even anticipatory/prophylactically (sorry).

What will the instructor do if you kinda keep the plane from stalling? In essence, you recognize, then react, but your reaction time is slow enough (human) where you still get the nose to barely pitch down and you’re recovered.

NOT a CFI.
 
skip to 6:25 to SEE it inside & outside the cockpit. Compared to spins it's quite a benign maneuver. Also not an instructor.
 
Hi.
Power off stall is Not a very harsh / abrupt maneuver in most acft. This is typical C172 and most singles in that performance level.
What you want to concentrate on is the entry, Slow down, lower the flaps slowly, fly Slow flight, Trim and Stay coordinated, when ready for the stall just reduce power and maintain level flight, and wait for it, Stay coordinated, as soon as imminent stall occurs just maintain level a while longer, Stay coordinated and when the nose drops below horizon slowly release some slight pressure. To recover add some power then bring the nose up slowly to level, as you gain airspeed, after you reach around 60KIAS, slowly retract flaps, and recover to entry altitude and heading, Stay coordinated, Stay coordinated.
If a wing drops you were uncoordinated you typically step on the high wing to level the wings first, add power bring the nose up slowly, to recover.
Do Not add power if you are not coordinated / wings level, or in a dive.
 
Just to start out a few times, try just holding the palms of your hands facing you to hold the yoke back entering the stall and keep your thumbs open and clear of the yoke so you can't push forward when it breaks. Then you can release the back pressure and reduce the AOA to regain airflow over the wings without going into a dive.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I ease back the yoke, feel and hear that a stall is imminent, and the nose drops and I don’t know what I do...I thought I was just relieving some back pressure, not like I was pushing the yoke, but every time we are suddenly in a dive.
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This isn't a blindfold maneuver, you need to keep ahead of the plane with your eyes on the horizon. Pan the horizon from wingtip to door post throughout the maneuver for bank and pitch information. Have it trimmed for landing and don't squeeze the yoke in a fist — keep an open palm.
 
LongRoadBob said:
I’ve been a student for a while now, but have had problems booking regularly. Lots of things, weather, health, availability of CFI’s, etc.

A few flight back when I was learning power off stalls, I didn’t quite do it right (same problem first time as I have now suddenly) but the flight after it went ok. We did a number of full stalls and I recovered ok.
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You seem like a legit fellow, but just curious how you only started learning power off stalls "a few flights back" after 3 1/2 years? I assume your flights are EXTREMELY few and far between, which would be a significant hindrance to the learning process.
 
LongRoadBob said:
Good point, and I should know this, but I was not paying attention to the trim at that point. I believe we were not in cruise, but trimmed for full throttle straight and level at that point where he asked if I would do storm stalls. But also he did demonstrate it twice with the same trim setting and recovered ok.
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I think the bold may be a clue to the inconsistency of your stalls. It suggests you are nervous, tight, and too focused. As a result, you are being very mechanical in your setup and recovery instead of feeling what the airplane is doing. When you recover well, you are more relaxed and confident. I think this is what @dtuuri is saying too.

My instructor did a demonstration with me just before he let me out to the practice area to do them on my own. He had me do a power off stall but instead of the standard recovery, i just let go of the yoke, left power at idle, and maintained coordination with rudder. The airplane dove, decreased it AoA, increased its airspeed, leveled off and recovered by itself, albeit with a significant loss of altitude. The purpose was to show that so long as coordination was maintained, this was a simple maneuver I should not be worried about practicing it solo. It worked.
 
Midlifeflyer made a point that I was going to make as soon as the question of trim came up/ Are you familiar with the term "trim speed"? That is the speed that the airplane will maintain, hands off, at a given power setting. Pull on the yoke, push on the, whatever....after a few oscillations the plane will return to its trim speed if you leave the throttle alone.

On the subject of throttle use: several posters have questioned how quickly came in with throttle during recovery. THE THROTTLE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STALL RECOVERY, only with minimizing altitude loss, and if you have to choose between breaking the stall and losing altitude, control is far more important than altitude. Worse case scenario, you could recover from a stall ten feet above the ground if you had the wing flying again.

"Easing my fingers from the yoke..." Why would you take your hands off of the yoke? You can relax back pressure and still have a hand on the yoke.

In my description of the falling leaf exercise I got off track...the falling leaf is performed without adding power at all until you have lost sufficient altitude to start over or do something else. The whole purpose of the falling leaf is to impress on the student the fact that stall recovery is accomplished with pitch (elevator) inputs, not with power.

Bob
 
Salty said:
If you let the stall actually occur the nose will drop pretty good all on its own.
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Correct.

Salty said:
If you detect the stall and release the back pressure before it breaks, while it’s still buffeting, then the nose just lowers.
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Which would be incorrect. In that case, you'd be recovering before the stall actually happened. The examiner wouldn't like that, however, as I understand it, the ACS is now teaching stall prevention rather than recovery, so it really just depends on what they're expecting the student to do.
 
Bob, you need to relax, it sounds like you are puckered up, and I know the feeling from my initial training. I'm guessing you are overcontrolling, too much forward pressure when the airplane breaks, putting you into a dive. It doesn't require too much control movement to get the airplane flying again. Basically just release back pressure, maybe a fraction of a push forward, add power and wait for the airplane to accelerate. Have your instructor demonstrate keeping the airplane stalled, for trainers it's generally pretty benign and should reinforce that bad things aren't going to happen in a stall at altitude. The goal is to recover from the stall with minimum altitude loss, too aggressive forward movement will result in loss of altitude. Just relax, release back pressure and apply power, the buffeting should stop, if not apply a little forward pressure on the yoke, you don't need to push it to the stop. Make it a finesse move, not a jerk motion. And don't forget to stay coordinated.
 
Ryanb said:
Correct.

Which would be incorrect. In that case, you'd be recovering before the stall actually happened. The examiner wouldn't like that, however, as I understand it, the ACS is now teaching stall prevention rather than recovery, so it really just depends on what they're expecting the student to do.
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I corrected the second statement
 
Ryanb said:
Which would be incorrect. In that case, you'd be recovering before the stall actually happened. The examiner wouldn't like that, however, as I understand it, the ACS is now teaching stall prevention rather than recovery, so it really just depends on what they're expecting the student to do.
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The Private Pilot ACS does call for "full stalls".
 
He is not studying under Faa standards.
 
Best teaching tool for me was falling leaf maneuver. Was light sport "evektor" but held the stick full after from about 5k - 2.5k while dancing on rudders. Nose really never fell through.
 
bobmrg said:
......On the subject of throttle use: several posters have questioned how quickly came in with throttle during recovery. THE THROTTLE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STALL RECOVERY, only with minimizing altitude loss, and if you have to choose between breaking the stall and losing altitude, control is far more important than altitude. Worse case scenario, you could recover from a stall ten feet above the ground if you had the wing flying again.......
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Yeah. I was one of those posters. It hasn't been quoted or replied to, so I just deleted it rather than add an EDIT to it. The throttle is about recovery after the stall has been arrested. Power off stalls are usually about when you are landing. Almost every CFI I have practiced them with goes through setting up and configuring for landing. Then pulling back on the yoke/stick to simulate doing that in a 'pulling back from fear of the upcoming ground' instinct. When that happens the usual response is to get out of there, do a go around. Hence, the throttle. I've never done one where it's stop the stall and then continue the Approach. But depending how far out and high you are, that's not necessarily unadvisable. And @bluesideup makes some very good points about when adding power can be a bad thing in post #11 above.
 
PaulS said:
Bob, you need to relax, it sounds like you are puckered up, and I know the feeling from my initial training. I'm guessing you are overcontrolling, too much forward pressure when the airplane breaks, putting you into a dive. It doesn't require too much control movement to get the airplane flying again. Basically just release back pressure, maybe a fraction of a push forward, add power and wait for the airplane to accelerate. Have your instructor demonstrate keeping the airplane stalled, for trainers it's generally pretty benign and should reinforce that bad things aren't going to happen in a stall at altitude. The goal is to recover from the stall with minimum altitude loss, too aggressive forward movement will result in loss of altitude. Just relax, release back pressure and apply power, the buffeting should stop, if not apply a little forward pressure on the yoke, you don't need to push it to the stop. Make it a finesse move, not a jerk motion. And don't forget to stay coordinated.
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Paul, the incident in Alaska was in 1960...since that time I have accumulated several thousand hours doing just about everything in general aviation other than sky writing, banner towing, and crop dusting, written four aviation texts, achieved an ATP and a Lear type rating. Your comments are interesting but bear no relation to my post.

Bob
 
Try not to overthink this. In a power-off stall, you retard the throttle and ease the yoke back, keeping level mostly with the rudder, until the the stall, at which point the nose will start to drop. In some planes (PA28-140 comes to mind) the stall event is not very pronounced, and is more like a mush with loss of altitude. In other planes, like my AA-5, the nose will eventually drop, but not necessarily very sharply. Simply releasing the back pressure (not a shove forward) will get the wings flying again. If you want to minimize altitude loss, you can add throttle as you are relieving back pressure, and once the wings are flying again and you have gained speed you can gently nose up to level flight.

You can initiate stalls when trimmed for slow flight, or you can initiate them from a level cruise trimmed configuration. If the former, you will reach the stall quicker when you ease back the yoke, while the latter will take longer as you have to bleed off more speed. Recovery is the same either way: just release back pressure until the wings are flying again. With the throttle retarded you will lose altitude until power is returned. You will be nose-down, but I wouldn't characterize it as a "dive" so much as a nose-down descent, just like a power-off approach to landing.

The intent of stall training is to get you to recognize the onset of a stall, and the proper control instincts to recover from it. You will be flying close to stall speeds in the final moments prior to landing, so it is good to recognize how the plane flies in this speed regime.
 
bobmrg said:
Paul, the incident in Alaska was in 1960...since that time I have accumulated several thousand hours doing just about everything in general aviation other than sky writing, banner towing, and crop dusting, written four aviation texts, achieved an ATP and a Lear type rating. Your comments are interesting but bear no relation to my post.

Bob
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I may be wrong, but I think Paul was directing his last comment to Bob, the OP. Unless I missed something else in the thread.
 
RoscoeT said:
You seem like a legit fellow, but just curious how you only started learning power off stalls "a few flights back" after 3 1/2 years? I assume your flights are EXTREMELY few and far between, which would be a significant hindrance to the learning process.
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He has some airplane availability issues so unfortunately his training is quite spaced out which does present challenges just like this.

Someone else mentioned it above...calling it a landing stall. Here is how I see it after almost 2yrs of this flying thing:

Just think, you are on short final. Elevator trimmed so you need little forward or aft pressure on the stick/yoke. Flaps are in the landing position (full). The throttle is very close to idle. You are nearing the numbers and maybe 100ft vertical to go. Something seems wrong such as a plane taxi's onto the runway or a critter runs across so you (instinctively, yet incorrectly) start pulling back on the yoke to climb again before you add power. Because you so were near you stall speed, probably within 10mph, that rather generous back travel on the yoke/stick brings you up to and into the stall. So this has turned into a go around. But you are really, really close to the ground.

Thankfully just pushing the yoke forward, not mega aggressively but also not dilly dallying around will get the wing flying again almost instantly because there is no motor to wind up. The needed relative wind is right there, instantly available. So you are out of the stall but you are also still descending.

So ideally as you are pushing the yoke ahead just enough to get out of the stall you are also adding full power. That power takes a second or two to develop and translate into increased airspeed. Against all those flaps you will probably need to pitch the nose down a bit more, not a lot but a bit more!

If done right the total vertical descent will be very minimal. Then you should start "feeling" the next problem. As the full power comes on you should start feeling the need to push, perhaps very firmly, ahead on the yoke because you had some pretty decent elevator up trim for landing. So within that few second period you will also need to be bringing off elevator trim. And then as your airspeed builds and you start climbing you will eventually start getting the flaps out.

I always practice this stall in full landing configuration. In the 182 there is 40deg flaps so those need to come back to 20deg immediately (right after full power and carb heat off) as they are mainly drag and not lift. Once the flaps get to 20deg, in the landing configuration the 182 nose will want to shoot for Jupiter so it takes a large amount of forward force as you dial the elevator trim back quickly. As I wait for the airspeed to build I get the cowl flaps open as the engine is working hard and will be climbing which overheats the engine the fastest. I like to setup for this stall at around 4000ft and when all is ready pick an even 100ft increment to practice and then see how much altitude is lost.

Your instructor will teach his way so not trying to tell you how to do it. Just giving you my experience and generally how 2 different CFI's were teaching it. I sensed that all the power off stall training was about low altitude and especially landing related stalls and situations. Perhaps and ACS standards thing. If you have already mastered go-arounds right above the runway you are probably closer than you think.

I know my wife sets it up and does the whole thing much quicker but then again she's flown about 15 different planes and has lots more experience.

Sounds to me like you are pushing the stick ahead to far. My sense is that you can push ahead as fast as you want. But you are going for level and maybe just a bit nose down. Once again, think like you are 50ft above the ground. You wouldn't push the stick all the way ahead. You'd push it ahead enough to get out of the stall and build some airspeed. Pitch for speed. Power for altitude.
 
bobmrg said:
Paul, the incident in Alaska was in 1960...since that time I have accumulated several thousand hours doing just about everything in general aviation other than sky writing, banner towing, and crop dusting, written four aviation texts, achieved an ATP and a Lear type rating. Your comments are interesting but bear no relation to my post.

Bob
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That's because I was addressing the OP, not you, lol. But thanks for reading.
 
bobmrg said:
My bad. Too many Bobs. Maybe I will change my name to Cholmondeley.

Bob (for now)
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I'm thinking we should all change our names to Bob, makes it easier to remember. (Stolen from Monty Python skit. )
 
Ok, I have a few corrections to things I’ve seen in this thread. Let me preface this with the fact that I am not a CFI, but i did recently return from one of the best upset recovery programs out there (aviation performance solutions) where we did on site training in an Extra 300. So here I go:
1. Yes the nose is going to drop in a stall, but this really isnt the biggest issue still. You can still be stalled with a harsh looking nose down attitude that will NOT go away on its own until you push on the yoke and lower the AoA. This is hard to comprehend until you sit in a plane pitched down at 60 degrees that is still in a full stall.
2. To be honest, easing off back pressure does work for most cases **in training aircraft when actively practicing stalls**, but is really an awful awful habit to get into that may kill you. Firmly grip the yoke and push for a half a g loading always before doing anything else. Pushing not only will break the stall itself but it actually will decrease the stall speed since your wings are loaded less.

Again, a 172 really is a stable aircraft and can make stalls seem basic and like little control inputs are required, but please make sure you arent doing this just to pass a practical test, but that you drill proper techniques into your head that will allow you to recover in a low to the ground situation. Firmly grip the yoke and give adequate forward pressure (.5 g’s is the goal). You will not be able to just ease off pressure when low above the ground, you need to regain aircraft control immediately. I know pushing down feels wrong when you are looking at the ground, but it really is the only thing that wont kill you. Let me know if you have any questions!
Best of luck
 
Hi again, it’s been a little busy here I meant to get back, and instead of quoting a ton of responses thought I would just clarify some points.

As “the other Bob” said, (actually he was first and is an actual experienced pilot so really I’m the “other Bob” but...) I mentioned the throttle in a response early on, but as bobmrg says, that isn’t the actual point, since I am having a problem with the breaking stall.

- I don’t know why I’m being taught full stalls before being taught stall avoidance. But I am. My instructor asks “how about we do some stalls” and I said “sure” and he meant full stalls and recovery. I thought I had read several places the main idea is that the first instinct is often what you learn first so avoidance is good, but seems that is not how it is taught here. So, full stalls.

- yes, I’ve been flying a long time, as was pointed out. I’m not a troll, but here I started flying, find out I had to have completed and passed the exam before I would be allowed to solo, took over a year (it was all in Norwegian and it is my second language, and it was technical Norwegian) for me to complete online, and then pass. After that I had health issues, and then when I could fly there was a ton of bad weather, or no CFI available or the one plane I can learn on, the C172, was grounded, in service, etc. it’s been very difficult to get regular time. A friend of mine has just gotten his cert, but he was able to book flights on weekdays riding the day. Availability of the one plane and other folks booking mean it can be hard to get a bloc of time on it.

- now to the (to me) important point. I too thought “I should make sure I am just using my palme and not thumbs on the yoke” maybe I am pushing forward on the stick without realizing it.

- it helps a lot to hear others descriptions of the stall maneuver. I think probably I am reacting too fast, as someone mentioned also too tightly controlling, or trying to, of course I will also ask the CFI what he thinks I am doing, but it wasn’t talked about in debriefing, but he had a lot going in then with other students waiting.

I’m thinking too that I need to not release all back pressure, just slowly a bit?
When I stall, I have an attitude that is just over the limit for stall, I’m less worried now about secondary stall than about this dive that I keep doing.

I appreciate all the thoughtful replies here, and help. This forum has been great for other viewpoints. Sometimes it just takes a good description of something, s different viewpoint to get it to click.

I had two flights schedules but had to cancel now because I was not feeling well, having difficulty breathing, and was feeling very queasy, and also there is a heat wave here in Norway right now. The temperatures have been affecting me a lot. At 62, I’m not as resilient as I once was. It takes what it takes. I’m determined to get my PPL, and onward, but if it takes longer than most, that is ok.

Thanks all.
 
BTW, it's not just you. I was giving a flight review to an instructor and his power off stall recovery was a rollercoaster. Shoved the nose straight down fast enough to produce a noticeable negative G. After the recovery, I asked, "are most of your students afraid of stalls?" "Yes." "I'm not surprised. You almost sacred the sh*t out of me!"
 
LongRoadBob said:
.....- I don’t know why I’m being taught full stalls before being taught stall avoidance. But I am. My instructor asks “how about we do some stalls” and I said “sure” and he meant full stalls and recovery. I thought I had read several places the main idea is that the first instinct is often what you learn first so avoidance is good, but seems that is not how it is taught here. So, full stalls.....
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A thing that changed years ago was spin training. Doing spins was part of training. But there were enough accidents that they went to 'spin avoidance' and no longer did spin training. Practicing full stalls is an important part of 'stall avoidance,' so you can experience what it feels like just before the stall.
 
LongRoadBob said:
Hi again, it’s been a little busy here I meant to get back, and instead of quoting a ton of responses thought I would just clarify some points.

As “the other Bob” said, (actually he was first and is an actual experienced pilot so really I’m the “other Bob” but...) I mentioned the throttle in a response early on, but as bobmrg says, that isn’t the actual point, since I am having a problem with the breaking stall.

- I don’t know why I’m being taught full stalls before being taught stall avoidance. But I am. My instructor asks “how about we do some stalls” and I said “sure” and he meant full stalls and recovery. I thought I had read several places the main idea is that the first instinct is often what you learn first so avoidance is good, but seems that is not how it is taught here. So, full stalls.

- yes, I’ve been flying a long time, as was pointed out. I’m not a troll, but here I started flying, find out I had to have completed and passed the exam before I would be allowed to solo, took over a year (it was all in Norwegian and it is my second language, and it was technical Norwegian) for me to complete online, and then pass. After that I had health issues, and then when I could fly there was a ton of bad weather, or no CFI available or the one plane I can learn on, the C172, was grounded, in service, etc. it’s been very difficult to get regular time. A friend of mine has just gotten his cert, but he was able to book flights on weekdays riding the day. Availability of the one plane and other folks booking mean it can be hard to get a bloc of time on it.

- now to the (to me) important point. I too thought “I should make sure I am just using my palme and not thumbs on the yoke” maybe I am pushing forward on the stick without realizing it.

- it helps a lot to hear others descriptions of the stall maneuver. I think probably I am reacting too fast, as someone mentioned also too tightly controlling, or trying to, of course I will also ask the CFI what he thinks I am doing, but it wasn’t talked about in debriefing, but he had a lot going in then with other students waiting.

I’m thinking too that I need to not release all back pressure, just slowly a bit?
When I stall, I have an attitude that is just over the limit for stall, I’m less worried now about secondary stall than about this dive that I keep doing.

I appreciate all the thoughtful replies here, and help. This forum has been great for other viewpoints. Sometimes it just takes a good description of something, s different viewpoint to get it to click.

I had two flights schedules but had to cancel now because I was not feeling well, having difficulty breathing, and was feeling very queasy, and also there is a heat wave here in Norway right now. The temperatures have been affecting me a lot. At 62, I’m not as resilient as I once was. It takes what it takes. I’m determined to get my PPL, and onward, but if it takes longer than most, that is ok.

Thanks all.
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You'll make it. Keep going!
 
I just kick hard left rudder at the stall, and recover from the spin.
In all seriousness, what kind of actual pitch angle and speeds are you reaching in your "dive"?
 
LongRoadBob said:
I’m thinking too that I need to not release all back pressure, just slowly a bit?
When I stall, I have an attitude that is just over the limit for stall, I’m less worried now about secondary stall than about this dive that I keep doing.
Click to expand...

It's a feel thing. You will get it. I would not describe stall recovery control inputs as "slowly" applied. Rather, I would say it is "firm and positive" without being violent or excessive. This is why full stalls are valuable training IMO, as opposed that what the FAA thinks is appropriate today. Apply just enough control input to get the plane solidly flying again, and no more to minimize altitude loss. This knowledge and control feel will come in real handy during landings.

Practice at altitude where you have plenty of room to experiment, and get feedback from your instructor. Practicing slow flight is another good control feel exercise.

Good luck.
 
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