What are the regulations regarding off airport landings in a non-emergency?

Hippike

Hippike

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Hippike
I saw a YT video of a dairy farm and the owner of the farm took off on his dirt road in his SEL plane and flew over the farm to show the video crew his land and his cows. I thought it was cool.

I had these questions (and I am thinking about California. I know guys up in AK will land on a piece of sand sticking out of the river in the middle of nowhere, but I am thinking about us, less skilled pilots in a more urban setting):

1. If I own the land (and it is suitable for the airplane) can I just take off / land whenever I please?
2. Do I need to notify the FAA that I will use my property as a runway?
3. Are there any regulations regarding these kinds of off-airport landings?
4. What about long stretches of public roads/highways (in the desert for example) far from any city or towns (somewhere in a class G). Let’s say the road is long enough, wide enough, no obstacles, and I can see that there is no traffic for miles. Can I do a touch and go on the road for the fun of it? Or 91.119 prohibits me from it?
 
I’ll take a stab.

Private ground without any (practical) violations of separation on approach landing out can do whatever you want.

Public roads and such even in desolate areas I’d say technically it’s a no... but it’s probabky kind of like the old swing regarding a tree falling when no one is around does it make a sound? If a plane lands and no one is around did it land?
 
arkvet said:
I’ll take a stab.

Private ground without any (practical) violations of separation on approach landing out can do whatever you want.

Public roads and such even in desolate areas I’d say technically it’s a no... but it’s probabky kind of like the old swing regarding a tree falling when no one is around does it make a sound? If a plane lands and no one is around did it land?
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If a man says something in the woods, and noone hears him...is he still wrong?
 
As far as I’m aware of, there’s no FAR’s that would prohibit you from landing on public land or roads.
 
They're called precautionary landings.
 
In Alaska you can land on public roads I am pretty sure.


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Aside from 91.13, the FAA doesn't care where you land. Your insurance might care, so read you policy. Regarding landing on private property, check state and local laws regarding taking off and landing on private property. In some places it may be a zoning issue, other places it may be against the law without prior approval. Other places (such as Alaska) may have no regulations at all.

As far as landing on public non-airport surfaces, again it's based on local laws. In most places (other than AK) landing on roadways is against the law (aside from an emergency).
 
I would move to Alaska if it wasn't so bloody cold in the winter :D
Thanks for your responses.
Brad Z said:
again it's based on local laws
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- ok, I will check out local codes and laws.
 
Looks like it, smells like it, tastes like it....sure glad I didn't step in it!
 
Hippike said:
I saw a YT video of a dairy farm and the owner of the farm took off on his dirt road in his SEL plane and flew over the farm to show the video crew his land and his cows. I thought it was cool.

I had these questions (and I am thinking about California. I know guys up in AK will land on a piece of sand sticking out of the river in the middle of nowhere, but I am thinking about us, less skilled pilots in a more urban setting):

1. If I own the land (and it is suitable for the airplane) can I just take off / land whenever I please?
2. Do I need to notify the FAA that I will use my property as a runway?
3. Are there any regulations regarding these kinds of off-airport landings?
4. What about long stretches of public roads/highways (in the desert for example) far from any city or towns (somewhere in a class G). Let’s say the road is long enough, wide enough, no obstacles, and I can see that there is no traffic for miles. Can I do a touch and go on the road for the fun of it? Or 91.119 prohibits me from it?
Click to expand...

I dunno what laws there are regarding taking off and landing in these situations. But they are not 'off airport' landings and take offs. It is impossible to make 'off airport' landings and take offs. The simple fact that it was done makes the place it was done an airport.

FAR 1.1
Airport means an area of land or water that is used or intended to be used for the landing and takeoff of aircraft, and includes its buildings and facilities, if any.
 
The jurisdiction for whoever owns the land decides. County road, its the county. State road, its the state. Private property its whoever owns the property. Water landing, its whoever manages the recreation on the water. Forest Service and BLM land and state park land have rules on operation mechanical equipment on land they have jurisdiction over.

Most farms or ranches, if its ok with the property owner, then its ok.

The FAA only has jurisdiction if you are landing at a public access airport. Off airport landings are someone else.
 
arkvet said:
I’ll take a stab.

Private ground without any (practical) violations of separation on approach landing out can do whatever you want.

Public roads and such even in desolate areas I’d say technically it’s a no... but it’s probabky kind of like the old swing regarding a tree falling when no one is around does it make a sound? If a plane lands and no one is around did it land?
Click to expand...
Just a side note: Montana law allows landing on public roads as long as it doesn’t interfere with traffic. They also allow private aircraft travel expense claims for state employees. The mileage rate wasn’t great but better than nothing.
 
Bobanna said:
Looks like it, smells like it, tastes like it....sure glad I didn't step in it!
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I'd rather step in it then then taste it but whatever makes you happy.

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It is illegal to land on the New York State Thruway without prior written approval of the NY Department of Transportation. That is specifically cited, and that is relatively recent restriction.
But, I (still) can't find out anything else about landing on roads in New York State.

Whenever you are landing on a public road, power lines are the 800 lb gorilla in that particular room.
 
Shepherd said:
It is illegal to land on the New York State Thruway without prior written approval of the NY Department of Transportation. That is specifically cited, and that is relatively recent restriction.
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I suspect emergency authority would trump their rule. They wouldn't think so, but you're coming down somewhere.
 
bflynn said:
I suspect emergency authority would trump their rule. They wouldn't think so, but you're coming down somewhere.
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Sorry. I should have been more specific. Except for an emergency, it is illegal to land on the Thruway without prior written approval.
 
As mentioned...off airport landings are not regulated by the FAA outside of a possible 91.13 gotcha for doing something stupid.

Off airport landings are however completely regulated (or not) by local laws and ordinances and no two will be the same if they have something on the books or not.

Don't ask for permission, rather ask if there is anything proving you from....

Many jokingly all throw out the "emergency" clause...but that will only exempt you from FAR regulation busts, not local laws or regulations for which you could still be liable and fined for. There was a story a while back where a pilot put down on a highway after an engine out and was fined by local LEO.
 
One result of landing in the manner the OP questioned would be multiple cell phone videos, the presence of TV news crews, and the resultant general hysteria associated with an airplane falling out of the sky. :eek:
 
3393RP said:
One result of landing in the manner the OP questioned would be multiple cell phone videos, the presence of TV news crews, and the resultant general hysteria associated with an airplane falling out of the sky. :eek:
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I can imagine what folks would think....:rofl::rofl:

When I was working as a flight instructor in West Virginia, a friend of mine took off for his recreation cabin for a weekend of fishing. He drove his truck. The registration on his truck had expired and he did not realize it until he got to his cabin, which was about a 5 hour drive on a good day.

So he called his son to pick up the new registration tag. Then they worked up the perfect plan to get it to him. Sonny was to seal it in a plastic milk jug, fly out to the cabin and air drop it in the lake. Not a problem.... or was it? We shall see.....

His son got the registration and sealed it up in a milk jug, along with a couple rocks, flew out to the lake, found ol' dad in his boat, and dropped the jug. No problem.

Right before he landed back at the airport, several state police cars pulled up and came in the FBO wanting to know if an airplane, tail number N12345 was based here. Well, yes, that is the owners Husky. The state police wanted to see it. Ok, you will have to wait until it lands. He just reported 10 miles southeast.

We all watched as he landed and taxied up to the fuel pumps. I refused to unlock the gate so the police could drive on the ramp, so when the engine shut down, the skinny police scaled the fence and the over weight police busted through the gate and surrounded the plane. They helped very over weight sonny boy out of the plane and detained him, grilling him for about an hour.

By now I had pretty well figured out the gist of what was going on..... Seems a good neighbor at the lake saw an airplane flying low over the water, then watched as it dropped a shipment of illicit drugs onto the water, then watched as a boat went out and picked up the drop...

So after grilling sonny, the advised him to not take off again until they complete their investigation. I asked the police how long will that take.?? All I received was a short and terse, it is out of our hands now, as they got into their cars to leave.

The next day ol' dad returned from the cabin with a story to tell. Seems the state police had raided the cabin, searching for drugs. They searched, and they searched and they searched, but found nothing except an old plastic milk jug. The drug sniffing dog was just not interested in the cabin, the truck or even the milk jug.

The helpful neighbor came over for a visit, curious as to what was going on. After hearing the story he was very embarrassed. He admitted he called the police after witnessing what he thought was a drug drop. The police were not amused. The local news reporter was very amused, and the drug sniffing dog was laying there licking.... well, he was laying there and was not paying much attention to the matter at hand.

The news reporter wrote a very nice article about the set of circumstances that amused him so and it was published in the local news paper. We cut the article out of the paper and mounted it in a nice frame, hanging it on the wall of the FBO.

As far as I know sonny boy is still greatly over weight, and still waiting to hear if the state police have finished their investigation.

So yes, I would think that doing an off airport landing in an area where people watch "Cops" reruns every day may not be the best of ideas.....
 
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Zeldman said:
I can imagine what folks would think....:rofl::rofl:

When I was working as a flight instructor in West Virginia, a friend of mine took off for his recreation cabin for a weekend of fishing. He drove his truck. The registration on his truck had expired and he did not realize it until he got to his cabin, which was about a 5 hour drive on a good day.

So he called to pick up the new registration tag. Then they worked up the perfect plan to get it to him. Sonny was to seal it in a plastic milk jug, fly out to the cabin and air drop it in the lake. Not a problem.... or was it? We shall see.....

His son got the registration and sealed it up in a milk jug, along with a couple rocks, flew out to the lake, found ol' dad in his boat, and dropped the jug. No problem.

Right before he landed back at the airport, several state police cars pulled up and came in the FBO wanting to know if an airplane, tail number N12345 was based here. Well, yes, that is the owners Husky. The state police wanted to see it. Ok, you will have to wait until it lands. He just reported 10 miles southeast.

We all watched as he landed and taxied up to the fuel pumps. I refused to unlock the gate so the police could drive on the ramp, so when the engine shut down, the skinny police scaled the fence and the over weight police busted through the gate and surrounded the plane. They helped very over weight sonny boy out of the plane and detained him, grilling him for about an hour.

By now I had pretty well figured out the gist of what was going on..... Seems a good neighbor at the lake saw an airplane flying low over the water, then watched as it dropped a shipment of illicit drugs onto the water, then watched as a boat went out and picked up the drop...

So after grilling sonny, the advised him to not take off again until they complete their investigation. I asked the police how long will that take.?? All I received was a short and terse, it is out of our hands now, as they got into their cars to leave.

The next day ol' dad returned from the cabin with a story to tell. Seems the state police had raided the cabin, searching for drugs. They searched, and they searched and they searched, but found nothing except an old plastic milk jug. The drug sniffing dog was just not interested in the cabin, the truck or even the milk jug.

The helpful neighbor came over for a visit, curious as to what was going on. After hearing the story he was very embarrassed. He admitted he called the police after witnessing what he thought was a drug drop. The police were not amused. The local news reporter was very amused, and the drug sniffing dog was laying there licking.... well, he was laying there and was not paying much attention to the matter at hand.

The news reporter wrote a very nice article about the set of circumstances that amused him so and it was published in the local news paper. We cut the article out of the paper and mounted it in a nice frame, hanging it on the wall of the FBO.

As far as I know sonny boy is still greatly over weight, and still waiting to hear if the state police have finished their investigation.

So yes, I would think that doing an off airport landing in an area where people watch "Cops" reruns every day may not be the best of ideas.....
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Great story. Reminds me of the kid who got busted tossing out a Subway sandwich to is brother who was out in the field working and needing a bite. Put a video on YouTube. Busted.
 
labbadabba said:
Great story. Reminds me of the kid who got busted tossing out a Subway sandwich to is brother who was out in the field working and needing a bite. Put a video on YouTube. Busted.
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Busted for what?
 
Zeldman said:
It is a violation to throw sandwiches from an airplane on Wednesdays in some states......;):lol::lol:
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Well, let’s not talk about throwing wind sock repair materials out of the back seat of a glider while on tow over the hill top to the crew that climbed the hill.
 
Shepherd said:
It is illegal to land on the New York State Thruway without prior written approval of the NY Department of Transportation. That is specifically cited, and that is relatively recent restriction.
But, I (still) can't find out anything else about landing on roads in New York State.

Whenever you are landing on a public road, power lines are the 800 lb gorilla in that particular room.
Click to expand...

Not sure about NY, but the states the I’ve found information for seem to preclude landing anywhere other than an airport by how they define airport and regulate airports.

Pretty much if you do multiple operations out of the same area then it is an airport and airports need state approvals. Asking for more information from the state of Connecticut, I got a response that a single landing followed by a single takeoff may constitute multiple operations making that an airport.

Vermont laws also seems to make it nearly impossible to land off airport.

Another thing to look at is insurance requirements both on your aircraft insurance and the landowner’s insurance.
 
skier said:
Not sure about NY, but the states the I’ve found information for seem to preclude landing anywhere other than an airport by how they define airport and regulate airports.

Pretty much if you do multiple operations out of the same area then it is an airport and airports need state approvals. Asking for more information from the state of Connecticut, I got a response that a single landing followed by a single takeoff may constitute multiple operations making that an airport.

Vermont laws also seems to make it nearly impossible to land off airport.

Another thing to look at is insurance requirements both on your aircraft insurance and the landowner’s insurance.
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NY is actually pretty good about off Airport, especially for Seaplane ops and also for wheel ops, however NY likes very strict control over their roads as they make a good deal of money off them between fees and fines.

Just remember if it doesn't say you can't, it means you can. Just use common sense.

If it's suspect in my opinion I'll call the local cop shop, worded the right way I got a pretty good closing rate for them to say ok, anyone has a issue " well officer Dudley said it was OK".
 
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Most Dry Lake Beds in NV are ok. Just be sure they are dry, hard pack, not soft sandy or dark (wet).
Calif does not want you on their dry lakes.

Most common statement I’ve heard. If your sneaker tracks are not there, you should not be landing there. Not knowing what maybe hidden could turn a routine landing into a broken airplane.
 
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