What are some fast reasonably priced singles?

pigpenracing

pigpenracing

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We have the 172 for sale. I am looking at airplanes to replace it with that are faster. Right now our first choice is a V tail Bonanza, second choice is a 182. I like Super Vikings buy do not want 1970's fabric. I am not really interested in a Mooney because I like my first choices better. Are there any other nice fast planes for $65,000 or less? I am open to anything an long as it has 4 seats or more.
 
If you could find one a White Lighting is pretty quick and seats 4

InFlight%20Solo.jpg



Cessna 210 perhaps.
 
pigpenracing said:
We have the 172 for sale. I am looking at airplanes to replace it with that are faster. Right now our first choice is a V tail Bonanza, second choice is a 182. I like Super Vikings buy do not want 1970's fabric. I am not really interested in a Mooney because I like my first choices better. Are there any other nice fast planes for $65,000 or less? I am open to anything an long as it has 4 seats or more.
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Comanche...probably the most consistently underrated Piper single.
 
In the part 23 world...

Fastest aluminum 180hp: AA5B
Fastest plastic 180hp: DA40
Fastest 200hp fixed gear: SR20
Fastest 200hp retract, normally aspirated: M20J

More than 200hp the list grows much longer.
 
Best bang for the buck will certainly be a Viking or a Comanche.

The Cessna's will certainly provide more utility.
 
pigpenracing said:
We have the 172 for sale. I am looking at airplanes to replace it with that are faster. Right now our first choice is a V tail Bonanza, second choice is a 182. I like Super Vikings buy do not want 1970's fabric. I am not really interested in a Mooney because I like my first choices better. Are there any other nice fast planes for $65,000 or less? I am open to anything an long as it has 4 seats or more.
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So 160 target speed and 4 seats for under $65k? Might talk to Ed Fred about his Comanche. You can get an S model 35 Bo for that as well. The only way a 182 is getting close to 150 is as a Katmai. 210s are available for that and when you take the back seats out they are pretty handy planes.
 
The more I look the more I like the S model Bonanza. They have some character and seem to be really good airplanes. That may be the best bang for the buck. If I could find a Super Viking with recent fabric for $65 or less that would be good. Seems lots of those airplanes are repainted but never recovered.
 
Was typing out SWIFT but see you need four seats.
Navion?
 
Comanche!

I love the Bonanza too, but every time I start looking at them, the prices keep pushing closer and closer to $100K as I find ones equipped the way I like...
 
FastEddieB said:
Grumman Tiger @ about 132 kts with fixed gear and fixed pitch prop simplicity.
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Fixed pitch *is* simple, but requires constant fiddling in flight to keep the RPMs and speed where you want it. For a go places airplane, I'd spring for a CS prop personally.
 
A guy I know just got a Velocity for 70k.
 
You could always go with an early model bo. Different kind of environment there and you will need to ensure you have access to a mechanic that doesn't ask "what's that?"

An A35 through G35 with a 470/520 would be a really nice option if you find one. Speed down low will be in the yellow, but up high, some can easily best 200MPH.

In the end, all these threads end the same way (unless you don't buy): go fly any of the above. The first copy that floats your boat and your mechanic likes is the one to buy.

(And it is usually a V-Tail ;) )
 
I have a awesome mechanic and he likes Bonanza's also. I have my eye on a couple. I need to sell my 172 and I will be shopping.
I guess the doctor killer is it.... Going to fly one this weekend to get the feel.


brian];1964789 said:
You could always go with an early model bo. Different kind of environment there and you will need to ensure you have access to a mechanic that doesn't ask "what's that?"

An A35 through G35 with a 470/520 would be a really nice option if you find one. Speed down low will be in the yellow, but up high, some can easily best 200MPH.

In the end, all these threads end the same way (unless you don't buy): go fly any of the above. The first copy that floats your boat and your mechanic likes is the one to buy.

(And it is usually a V-Tail ;) )
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Define "fast"

>120 ktas ?
>140 ktas ?
>160 ktas ?
>180 ktas ?
>200 ktas ?

Your definition of fast and someone else's definition of fast might be quite different.
 
asicer said:
In the part 23 world...

Fastest aluminum 180hp: AA5B
Fastest plastic 180hp: DA40
Fastest 200hp fixed gear: SR20
Fastest 200hp retract, normally aspirated: M20J

More than 200hp the list grows much longer.
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Comanche 180 will outpace a Grumman.
 
pigpenracing said:
I like Super Vikings buy do not want 1970's fabric.
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What's the concern about 1970's fabric? If the plane has been well cared for, the fabric is of little concern. I have a '72 Super Viking with original paint and fabric. Overall, the fabric is in great shape. Sure, it's got a spot or two that have been touched-up over the years, but nothing of any real concern (many metal airplanes have similar blemishes). There is basically no other certified airplane on the market that can match the value of the Super Viking. They're far from perfect, but we paid $35k for ours, with a 400hr engine, a new prop, and 2300tt, a 430 and a KX165, and it'll make 155-160kts on 13-15gph (LOP). Useful load of 1125lbs. It's a little tight inside, sure, but the price simply can't be beat. You need to be able to hangar it, though.

While $35k was a steal for ours, you can buy a good specimen for well under $50k all day long, usually much closer to $40k.
 
bradg33 said:
What's the concern about 1970's fabric? If the plane has been well cared for, the fabric is of little concern. I have a '72 Super Viking with original paint and fabric. Overall, the fabric is in great shape. Sure, it's got a spot or two that have been touched-up over the years, but nothing of any real concern (many metal airplanes have similar blemishes). There is basically no other certified airplane on the market that can match the value of the Super Viking. They're far from perfect, but we paid $35k for ours, with a 400hr engine, a new prop, and 2300tt, a 430 and a KX165, and it'll make 155-160kts on 13-15gph (LOP). Useful load of 1125lbs. It's a little tight inside, sure, but the price simply can't be beat. You need to be able to hangar it, though.

While $35k was a steal for ours, you can buy a good specimen for well under $50k all day long, usually much closer to $40k.
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I just don't want a fabric plane with 40 year old fabric. I know fabric well, I own a Pitts model 12 and a j-3 Cub now. I have owned 7 fabric planes before these. After awhile it will start getting funky. I want a plane I can keep for awhile without any issues. If you have to cover yours it will cost more than you paid for the airplane. If I could find one reasonably priced with 15 year old fabric I would be happy. I am liking the Bonanza for my mission the best.
 
I love my 182 but certainly wouldn't classify it as "fast"....especially compared to a 172.

182 is your choice if you need payload and space...not speed.
 
Henning said:
So 160 target speed and 4 seats for under $65k? Might talk to Ed Fred about his Comanche. You can get an S model 35 Bo for that as well. The only way a 182 is getting close to 150 is as a Katmai. 210s are available for that and when you take the back seats out they are pretty handy planes.
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The Kenai mod is faster than the Katmai
 
EdFred said:
Comanche 180 will outpace a Grumman.
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So will a Mooney M20C. However, the Grumman does not have the retract gear, nor constant speed prop to maintain. Not that those are deal breakers. I like all three of these planes, but if you want an extra 10 - 15 knots go retract.
 
If I could find a Super Viking with recent fabric for $65 or less that would be good. Seems lots of those airplanes are repainted but never recovered.
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and there is a good reason for that;
-properly cared for fabric has a limitless lifespan. (It does not say anywhere in the eg, Ceconite manual "Fabric must be replaced after 30 years' use".)
-from a practical standpoint, properly applied and cared for fabric* has a limitless lifespan. See a lot of accident/incident reports on (properly applied and cared for) fabric planes? Nope. Is fabric a common topic on the Vikingchat forum? Nope.
-no clue what is meant by 'after a while, fabric gets funky'. Have never heard of, nor seen 'funky' fabric.

Is there an inexplicable and irrational aversion to fabric? Yes, and we** do not expect this to change anytime soon. In fact we are ok with it.
Finally, whenever we point out our opinion on these things there is inevitably a rash of anti-Viking or anti-wood or fabric people who will launch into a tirade. We are ok with that too.
As long as we have an opportunity to quietly and rationally present this information (gleaned by dozens of actual Viking owners who have flown theirs thousands of hours in all conditions and locations) to new aviators or those unfamiliar, all is good!


*this is not difficult
**the few Viking owners on POA, those on the Viking forum.

(I may not check back on this thread because of how replies to this info usually goes, but I am happy to chat by PM about it, or direct you to the Viking forum.)
 
bradg33 said:
Even finding a good J at $65k is a tall order.
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C, E, or F. not only can you travel ~150knots, but do it at 9-10gph, but if you want a true 4 place, Mooney is probably not a good choice unless 2 of the 4 are children.
 
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If building time, don't you want the slowest airplane out there?
 
EdFred said:
Comanche 180 will outpace a Grumman.
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At the cost of higher annuals, $1200 vs $850, Insurance, $1800 vs $800.

Want to go fast on 180 Hp, need to suck the gear up and then you get to pay more.
 
Rcmutz said:
At the cost of higher annuals, $1200 vs $850, Insurance, $1800 vs $800.

Want to go fast on 180 Hp, need to suck the gear up and then you get to pay more.
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The insurance for my Mooney is less than the $800 you noted for the Grumman.
 
BBFTB remains a Super Viking. I still miss mine even nearly 20 years later.
Ah well, two engines have their charms also.
 
EdFred said:
If building time, don't you want the slowest airplane out there?
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You know, there is something to this. My -35 is just too fast. Trips to see family were nearly 5 hours in a C172 and a little less in a DA20. 4 hours in the old Bo and less if I don't stop... Makes it harder to get over 100 hours a year in the log book.

It's not all speed, but I'm more likely to sit for 3.5 hours and not be worried having 6.5 hours of total gas.
 
Rcmutz said:
At the cost of higher annuals, $1200 vs $850, Insurance, $1800 vs $800.

Want to go fast on 180 Hp, need to suck the gear up and then you get to pay more.
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But it's still faster which is what was being claimed.
 
eman1200 said:
mmmm, huh?
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You want to build time. Which means you want hours in your logbook. You get hours in your logbook by flying more, well, hours. So you often take a 450nm (no wind) trip to your 2nd house every so many weekends. In a 150kt plane takes 3 hours. In a 100kt plane it takes 4.5hours. If you can only make that trip so many times in a given period (a month, a quarter, a year), doing it in the slower plane will give you more flight hours.
 
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