What airport would you never go to again?

John Baker

John Baker

Final Approach
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John Baker
I haven't being flying long enough or gone to enough airports to have a really bad experience, so I can't add to this thread other than getting it started.

We all hear of the great places to fly, and why they are great, but it is rare when anyone actually bad mouthes a particular airport or FBO, so it got me to wondering, are there any really bad airports, ones you would never go to again? Why, what happened?

I landed at Santa Monica airport a few years back and they sent me a bill for $4.95, or some ridiculously small amount like that, as a landing fee for my massive Piper Warrior. I got more of a kick out of it rather than being offended and sent them the check, so I guess I can't say that is a negative about Santa Monica.

I also spent a few hours tonight looking at places to fly around So Cal. and checking them out on Google Earth and the AFD. But that didn't tell me much about the airport as a place I would want to go to, or not.

John
 
The problem with something like this is that the circumstances at that airport could have changed significantly from the time of any reported incident, and the current business could be unfairly hurt. And it's hard enough to make a go of it in aviation; we really don't need to do anything to make it more difficult.
 
Acme Wa. USFS strip, I landed there once in my 48 rag wing 170, Shortest landing I've ever done. I thought I was going over on my back, Grass was over a foot tall, I had to mow the runway to get out. I never went back.
 
gprellwitz said:
The problem with something like this is that the circumstances at that airport could have changed significantly from the time of any reported incident, and the current business could be unfairly hurt. And it's hard enough to make a go of it in aviation; we really don't need to do anything to make it more difficult.
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I have to agree with you on that, this thread could be detrimental to a non deserving new operator, but it could also serve as a wake up call that perhaps something should be fixed.

POA is going to be a major influence in GA, as more and more join up. If we want that to happen, we have to allow our honest thoughts to be on it, good or bad, and most all subjects that affect all of us be allowed.

The trade BBS that I also participate in started much the same as this one, it has now become the most powerful web site in the picture framing industry, with participants spanning the globe. The owner of the site, a picture framer, is now selling advertising on the site as well, it is producing income for him.

The site is called "The Picture Framers Grumble"(http://www.thegrumble.com/forum.php). It is not the free for all you would expect from the name of it. It, like this, is a self policed site, were most all participants are fairly reasonable people. It, like this site, also has excellent volunteer moderators to keep things going smoothly.

All that said, if you have been wronged at an airport, or an FBO, is that not something we, as pilots would want to be aware of? If your friends were going to a restaurant that gave you food poisoning, would you not warn them?

I am not advocating ruthless slander of any airport or FBO, but if one of us has a reasonable gripe, why not?

John
 
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Closest thing I can think of is Phoenix Deer Valley (DVT). Can't say that I will never go there (Angel Flight West schedules alot of flights through there for some reason), but I do everything possible to avoid it like the plague. Green controllers, countless green students who can barely speak english and no radar coverage. Recipe for disaster.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Closest thing I can think of is Phoenix Deer Valley (DVT). Can't say that I will never go there (Angel Flight West schedules alot of flights through there for some reason), but I do everything possible to avoid it like the plague. Green controllers, countless green students who can barely speak english and no radar coverage. Recipe for disaster.
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That place needs a "high density training environment" warning on the charts. That warning is around the US Air Force Academy and I'm far less worried wandering near there than KDVT.

KGEU is a far nicer place to go for an out-of-towner. Especially on the north side, and it's tucked right up against a busy Air Force base.
 
I agree about Phoenix Deer Valley (DVT) the airport is nice the FBO was great but the controllers treat you like a student and are not well trained!
 
John Baker said:
We all hear of the great places to fly, and why they are great, but it is rare when anyone actually bad mouthes a particular airport or FBO, so it got me to wondering, are there any really bad airports, ones you would never go to again? Why, what happened?
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There is a midwestern airport that I will go back to for their great restaurant and ATC, but will avoid using their FBO if at all possible. I landed after running into a large are of rain on a VFR flight. Parked at the FBO, at 8:47 pm and asked if I could look at their weather. I was immediately informed that they would be closing in 13 minutes and if I was there after that, I would be charged a $60 after-hours ramp fee. I proceeded to check my weather with the lineman reminding me every 2 or 3 minutes that they close at 9. Was out of there by 8:55 and only had to pay a $5 ramp fee. Whew!!
 
geneseib said:
There is a midwestern airport that I will go back to for their great restaurant and ATC, but will avoid using their FBO if at all possible. I landed after running into a large are of rain on a VFR flight. Parked at the FBO, at 8:47 pm and asked if I could look at their weather. I was immediately informed that they would be closing in 13 minutes and if I was there after that, I would be charged a $60 after-hours ramp fee. I proceeded to check my weather with the lineman reminding me every 2 or 3 minutes that they close at 9. Was out of there by 8:55 and only had to pay a $5 ramp fee. Whew!!
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Gene, that would be of a lot more help if we knew what airport (Great restaurant and ATC) and what FBO, you know, the one that needs to have a discussion with it's employees, the one we should avoid if near it's closing time.

John
 
Heck, I'll put one in for Kent. KMKE - Signature. Ridiculous fees! He's posted it here before, so you can't claim that we never tell about the problem places.
 
John Baker said:
Gene, that would be of a lot more help if we knew what airport (Great restaurant and ATC) and what FBO, you know, the one that needs to have a discussion with it's employees, the one we should avoid if near it's closing time.

John
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DEC - Decatur, Illinois. From what the employee said, I tend to think it's management policy.
 
John Baker said:
POA is going to be a major influence in GA, as more and more join up. If we want that to happen, we have to allow our honest thoughts to be on it, good or bad, and most all subjects that affect all of us be allowed.
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I missed this mission statement -- did Phil Boyer end up on the MC or something?
 
gprellwitz said:
Heck, I'll put one in for Kent. KMKE - Signature. Ridiculous fees! He's posted it here before, so you can't claim that we never tell about the problem places.
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I also have seen negative mentions of different airports and FBOs, so your right, I can not make such a claim. My thought was to give the topic its own thread to provide a reference for flying to unknown airports.

I think what started this was when I was looking for someplace to fly to last night. I dug up all the information on various airports, including looking at it on Google Earth, but it didn't really tell me much about the place itself. Would I have a good time, or would I leave all disappointed?

The heck of it is, I threw my back out this morning, so I'm not going anywhere anyway.

John
 
John Baker said:
We all hear of the great places to fly, and why they are great, but it is rare when anyone actually bad mouthes a particular airport or FBO, so it got me to wondering, are there any really bad airports, ones you would never go to again?
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PAF Base Masroor in Karachi, Pakistan.

Why, what happened?
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Dysentery.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Closest thing I can think of is Phoenix Deer Valley (DVT). Can't say that I will never go there (Angel Flight West schedules alot of flights through there for some reason), but I do everything possible to avoid it like the plague. Green controllers, countless green students who can barely speak english and no radar coverage. Recipe for disaster.
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Prescott. Same reason.
 
Linden NJ - it's the most vile and actively inhospitable place I've ever been in an airplane. And that's sugar coating how I feel.
 
jayjenkinssr said:
I agree about Phoenix Deer Valley (DVT) the airport is nice the FBO was great but the controllers treat you like a student and are not well trained!
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I never had any trouble with the controllers at Deer Valley, but there were so many students waiting to take off one Sunday morning that it took forever to get out, so I switched to Glendale and never regretted it.
 
Palmpilot said:
I never had any trouble with the controllers at Deer Valley, but there were so many students waiting to take off one Sunday morning that it took forever to get out, so I switched to Glendale and never regretted it.
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I haven't had any direct trouble from the controllers there, but every time I have flown in there, they seem/sound so stressed it is ridiculous.

Speaking of getting out, I once sat on the ground for over 30 minutes waiting to takeoff VFR!
 
gprellwitz said:
The problem with something like this is that the circumstances at that airport could have changed significantly from the time of any reported incident, and the current business could be unfairly hurt. And it's hard enough to make a go of it in aviation; we really don't need to do anything to make it more difficult.
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But in some cases, it's the airport and/or airport owner/authority rather than the FBO. Those need to be mentioned: like KBED and it's cousin KBOS. With so many great alternatives that are not under the control of Massport, why go there? Outrageous airport fees and stupid regulations (like mandatory prop locks, and security screening for crews).

On the FBO front, yes, things can change, but some FBOs are to be avoided. $ignature is one I avoid, regardless of city.

I don't recall any airports on my "do not return" list, but there are a few FBOs on the list (see above).

Never really had problems at DVT, but I prefer Mesa (FFZ) to Deer Valley.
 
wsuffa said:
But in some cases, it's the airport and/or airport owner/authority rather than the FBO. Those need to be mentioned: like KBED and it's cousin KBOS. With so many great alternatives that are not under the control of Massport, why go there? Outrageous airport fees and stupid regulations (like mandatory prop locks, and security screening for crews).
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Not sure what it is now, but last I was flying in New England, the landing fee at KBOS for a piston single was about $500.

That's what I love about PHX - it's a major class B airport and no landing fee....just a premium on the gas.
 
gprellwitz said:
Heck, I'll put one in for Kent. KMKE - Signature. Ridiculous fees! He's posted it here before, so you can't claim that we never tell about the problem places.
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Yep. And the problem is, there's no place to go but $ignature there, so you might as well just not go there.

My favorite alternates in the area are KRAC and 02C. MWC is OK, tho they do charge ya 5 bucks and have more expensive fuel.

Sadly, there's now another nearby airport on my do-not-return list due to their FBO: KUES, Atlantic Aviation. They out-Signature Signature. Picked up a friend there a few months ago. I never went inside, but I was talking to their lineman for several minutes. Then after my friend got loaded up and we started up and began taxiing out, Ground told me that Atlantic wanted me to call them on Unicom. I did, and they actually told me that I needed to taxi back to their ramp, shut down, and come in to pay a ramp fee! :incazzato: I told them that I wasn't going to spend more money just to pay them a fee and that maybe their lineman should have said something. Fail... And I won't be back until UES gets a new FBO.

As far as airports: I won't go back to 84C (Valhalla). Runway is so rough (think boulders with a layer of sod on top) that I'm surprised the landing gear stayed attached. No FBO, the "taxiway" is cut through a cornfield but too narrow for even an Archer so you need a high wing to even get off the runway... And there's really nothing worth mentioning there anyway as far as I could tell. There's a much nicer grass strip only about 2 miles away anyway.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
My favorite alternates in the area are KRAC and 02C. MWC is OK, tho they do charge ya 5 bucks and have more expensive fuel.
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Might have been an off batch of fuel at MWC. When I was there (overnight) - no fee - and fuel pretty much on par with where I am based.
 
TTN (Trenton, NJ)
A- its in New Jersey
B- its in Trenton, NJ!
C- HORRIBLY RUDE SERVICE AT THE FBO
D- OUTRAGEOUS FEES AT THE FBO $120/nt Per plane (we had 2 Cessna 182s and we got a top off too)

but in my opinion. i don't need to read past reason A....
 
EdFred said:
Might have been an off batch of fuel at MWC. When I was there (overnight) - no fee - and fuel pretty much on par with where I am based.
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They're not outrageously expensive by any means, just more expensive than the others in the area that I mentioned, and more expensive than my home 'drome.

According to airnav, currently:
MWC $5.91/gal
RAC $5.19/gal
02C $5.13/gal

And my home 'drome, MSN: $5.49.
 
Mueller Austin. Great airport handy access to downdown. They closed it and put in government offices. Looked down on it wistfully today.
 
There are three California airports that I will NEVER go back to! They are: Santa Rosa Air Center (O01), Pearce Field (Clearlake - 2O9), and Carmel Valley (O62). Why? Because they're CLOSED! :mad: :mad3: :mad:
 
ntbjounin said:
TTN (Trenton, NJ)
A- its in New Jersey
B- its in Trenton, NJ!
C- HORRIBLY RUDE SERVICE AT THE FBO
D- OUTRAGEOUS FEES AT THE FBO $120/nt Per plane (we had 2 Cessna 182s and we got a top off too)

but in my opinion. i don't need to read past reason A....
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Hey now! I have only had positive experiences there Allen. Controllers are great there as well. I cant say anything about the FBO, I have never used one there.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
They're not outrageously expensive by any means, just more expensive than the others in the area that I mentioned, and more expensive than my home 'drome.

According to airnav, currently:
MWC $5.91/gal
RAC $5.19/gal
02C $5.13/gal

And my home 'drome, MSN: $5.49.
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Odd, they weren't that far out of line in fall 2009. Cheaper then of course, but thought they were pretty much the same as the others.
 
Sorry to sound cheesy here, but short of kissing the ground, not only do I "like" every airport I go to - I thank my lucky stars I didn't get lost, have a bad landing, or anything like that!

I am sure in like 1000 hours I'll have an opinion but for now I know I am lucky to be able to fly to new airports. To me, it is neat they are all different and provide me with new challenges. One on a diversion didn't have a taxi-way and my CFI said "I got the plane" and surprised me by going on the CTAF and saying something about taxi back and then he made a U-Turn.

I never stop learning. Each airport (I've been to 10 or more I think) is very different from the last.

And I love it.
 
The problem with this thread is that the bad experience has to be pretty recent, or the thread is harmful to GA.

For example, we landed at an Indiana Airport where I literally had to go from trailer to trailer, pounding on doors until I found the airport operator. While he finally got 'round to pumping us some gas, we went in the "FBO" (a single-wide) to get a soda pop.

The diet Coke that came out of the machine was dated NINE YEARS ago. Needless to say, it was undrinkable. The magazines were about that old, too -- and the bathroom? Don't ask. Mary came out gasping, having tried to hold her breath for several minutes.

Needless to say -- we will never go back. Trouble is, this happened in 1999. I would hope that the airport has found a better operator during the intervening 12 years. But who knows?
 
gprellwitz said:
Heck, I'll put one in for Kent. KMKE - Signature. Ridiculous fees! He's posted it here before, so you can't claim that we never tell about the problem places.
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I actually loved Signature at MKE. My ramp fee got waived, and I got a crew car for no charge.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Sorry to sound cheesy here, but short of kissing the ground, not only do I "like" every airport I go to - I thank my lucky stars I didn't get lost, have a bad landing, or anything like that!

I am sure in like 1000 hours I'll have an opinion but for now I know I am lucky to be able to fly to new airports. To me, it is neat they are all different and provide me with new challenges. One on a diversion didn't have a taxi-way and my CFI said "I got the plane" and surprised me by going on the CTAF and saying something about taxi back and then he made a U-Turn.

I never stop learning. Each airport (I've been to 10 or more I think) is very different from the last.

And I love it.
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K-A:

You have the right attitude.
 
Darsh said:
I actually loved Signature at MKE. My ramp fee got waived, and I got a crew car for no charge.
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surprisingly i got the same treatment at MKE. I usually try to avoid Signature b.c of all the fees etc.. But at MKE they were nothing but great. that was 2009
 
To me, griping about suppliers, and an airport or FBO is a supplier, can do nothing but help GA. It lets them know that they are not dealing with just one pilot anymore, but every one of us.

That is the beauty of web sites like this, for the first time in the history of aviation, one single nobody pilot can instantly communicate with hundreds, if not thousands, of other nobody pilots.

Eventually this type of communication will force airports, FBOs, maintenance shops, equipment suppliers, and even the FAA, to clean up their acts if they want to remain in business.

I've been a member of The Picture Framers Grumble for over ten years, I have seen just how much our industry has changed for the better in that short of time. We no longer hear the oft repeated phase, "Your the only one who is having that problem, we have never had that happen before." In other words, they can no longer bullsh*t us.

There is a huge difference between groundless slander and constructive criticism. As long as that thought is kept in mind, it is nothing but helping GA when we discuss bad apples.

John
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Sorry to sound cheesy here, but short of kissing the ground, not only do I "like" every airport I go to - I thank my lucky stars I didn't get lost, have a bad landing, or anything like that!
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In time that will change, but you do have the right attitude for where you're at.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
One on a diversion didn't have a taxi-way and my CFI said "I got the plane" and surprised me by going on the CTAF and saying something about taxi back and then he made a U-Turn.
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Alot of small airports, especially grass strips don't have parallel taxiways. You just self announce your tail # and say "is backtaxiing on 17" and announce again when you're clear of the runway.
 
MSPAviator said:
Alot of small airports, especially grass strips don't have parallel taxiways. You just self announce your Plane Type and say "is backtaxiing on 17" and announce again when you're clear of the runway.
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FTFY.
 
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