What a zoo!

A

ateamer

Pattern Altitude
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ateamer
IMG_1175.jpegTypical day around here. All of those squiggly tracks are the trainers that fill the Florida sky, almost all of them below 2500’.
 
Nice to see things thriving.
 
RyanB said:
Nice to see things thriving.
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Thriving, but challenging and annoying when you’re trying to get into a nontowered field with four or five trainers doing pattern work with two to three mile finals and some of of them doing stop-and-goes in the middle of that. Plus doing emergency procedures and ground reference work inside the patrern area at airparks, at pattern altitude, going against the traffic pattern direction.
 
Yeah, I flew into X50 a few weeks ago and it was quite a challenge to avoid all the students doing circles, stalls and s-turns in every conceivable direction and altitude.
 
ateamer said:
Thriving, but challenging and annoying when you’re trying to get into a nontowered field with four or five trainers doing pattern work with two to three mile finals and some of of them doing stop-and-goes in the middle of that.
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Yep! I flew my RV down thru FL a few months ago, mainly just to bag landings at Cedar Key, Key West, Marathon, etc. I saw a few other airports that could've been interesting, but, there was just so dang much trainer traffic everywhere I looked... I just climbed up to 4500'+ and pressed on above the scrum. I'm glad to see the schools are busy and so many people learning to fly, but holy crap, I certainly don't want to fly down there ever again.
 
Dang, that would be an interesting/intimidating place to do a “three take offs and landings” first solo at.
 
Oh, what a tangled web they weave,
when students practice, their certs to achieve.

Yeah, it’s a mess. With three large bravo airports in Florida, several charlies, and deltas and golfs about every 10 miles, plus lots of MOAs and Restricted areas, training flights are having to share what little clear airspace remains. And we keep opening more and more schools.
 
ateamer said:
View attachment 126722Typical day around here. All of those squiggly tracks are the trainers that fill the Florida sky, almost all of them below 2500’.
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I hated doing my phase I flight testing in Sebastian. One time I waited almost 15 minutes to takeoff while 4 piper’s were doing touch & goes. And I couldn’t understand any of there radio calls.
 
TAs/RAs are typical in south FL. Pretty nuts, especially when I have to do paperwork every time I get one. “In sight”…
 
I don’t understand when or how patterns morphed into these huge things. CFI’s need to start teaching. Bigger is not better!
 
New York is losing people to Florida at a prodigious rate.
Unfortunately, I don't think any of them are pilots.
:cool::devil:
 
I'm often one of those squiggly tracks at 2500. I've never found the environment to be overly challenging. Skyhawks and Warriors are pretty easy to dodge. I'd rather deal with 5 students in the pattern than a bizjet or twin on 5 mile "final".
 
On the east coast it isn’t the pattern that’s the problem.
 
jsstevens said:
Um, yeah. It's usually pretty interesting to listen to CTAF with 3 or more airports sharing a frequency within hearing distance and the plethora of accents...
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Yeah, one time when X04 was like that I started my call with, “Apopka International traffic,...”

But mostly I was teasing Ryan about his “c’est la vie” quip in that context.
 
And there’s often the CTAF or Unicom being tied up for half a dozen airports with calls at one field, such as four mile 45, three mile 45, turning downwind, established on downwind, turning base (often accompanied by “wing up”), base to final, on final, short final (a mile out), clear the runway, taxiing. All from one plane, and all excessively verbose (“Anytown traffic, Cessna 1234A, we are established on downwind leg, left traffic runway zero-five, Anytown traffic”, versus “Anytown traffic Cessna 34A left downwind five Anytown”.)
 
ateamer said:
And there’s often the CTAF or Unicom being tied up for half a dozen airports with calls at one field, such as four mile 45, three mile 45, turning downwind, established on downwind, turning base (often accompanied by “wing up”), base to final, on final, short final (a mile out), clear the runway, taxiing. All from one plane, and all excessively verbose (“Anytown traffic, Cessna 1234A, we are established on downwind leg, left traffic runway zero-five, Anytown traffic”, versus “Anytown traffic Cessna 34A left downwind five Anytown”.)
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You left out “any traffic in the area please advise” at the end of every call. Including the calls that they are clear of the runway and taxiing.
 
jbDC9 said:
Yep! I flew my RV down thru FL a few months ago, mainly just to bag landings at Cedar Key, Key West, Marathon, etc. I saw a few other airports that could've been interesting, but, there was just so dang much trainer traffic everywhere I looked... I just climbed up to 4500'+ and pressed on above the scrum. I'm glad to see the schools are busy and so many people learning to fly, but holy crap, I certainly don't want to fly down there ever again.
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come on now, you were flying an RV, live up to the rep. flight suit on, big watch, raybans, come in at full speed for a midfield break, dont talk on the radio and do what ever you want to do!
 
jbDC9 said:
....there was just so dang much trainer traffic everywhere I looked... I just climbed up to 4500'+ and pressed on above the scrum.
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Being VFR only, I often seem to find myself trapped between an overcast at 3500' and an aluminum undercast at 2500'....
 
iamtheari said:
You left out “any traffic in the area please advise” at the end of every call. Including the calls that they are clear of the runway and taxiing.
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"Last call Anytown" ...
 
It's getting pretty crazy here in Florida and the quality of student pilots going undergoing future ATP "training" is scary.

I flew into KSUA the other day and was told there were 5 in the pattern by Palm Beach Approach and when I swapped to tower, he confirmed it. Gave me a 5 mile straight in though and I assisted by slowing from 185kts to 125kts. On short approach, he had a school Cessna 172 decided to slowly take off instead of "no delay."

Getting out I was also #5 in line. Wound up taking RWY 7 and a cross wind just to get out of there faster.

I have also been hearing a lot of "remain outside of Class D airspace" statements lately being issued to a planes from a flight school who remind me of a very large gas station known for selling jerky and brisket...
 
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I have been known to reply to the ''Any Traffic In The Area Please Advise'' call with, I don't have a radio so how do I advise.??

This has caused some confusion...

Because usually folks that use ATITAPA quit looking for traffic when no one replies and not realizing there may be NORDO aircraft close by.
 
Zeldman said:
I have been known to reply to the ''Any Traffic In The Area Please Advise'' call with, I don't have a radio so how do I advise.??

This has caused some confusion...

Because usually folks that use ATITAPA quit looking for traffic when no one replies and not realizing there may be NORDO aircraft close by.
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"Anytown traffic, NORDO flight of twenty advises you read the AIM and use your eyes for situational awareness."
 
A good pilot uses all available information in the pattern. He scans outside, listens to the radio, makes proper radio calls and checks ADSB data. He also flies a proper pattern. The last is often the biggest mistake.
 
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