What’s Your Time Source for Logging Flights?

flyerfocus

flyerfocus

Filing Flight Plan
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flyerfocus
I’ve been logging my time based on Hobbs since I started flying decades ago. Now that I’m using ForeFlight, ForeFlight’s Track Logs don’t always agree with Hobbs. For example, last weekend I got my daughter nauseous doing touch & goes for 1.3 hours Hobbs time and 1.5 hours based on ForeFlight. Which would you log? Logging Hobbs may be the tradition it’s not tied to an actual clock, whereas ForeFlight is, thus, I believe logging ForeFlight is the more accurate way to go. Your thoughts?
 
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Hobbs always for me.
 
FF is always a little longer for some reason, Why? I don't know. I generally use hobbs time because sometimes I look at FF and it is still recording even after I came to a stop in front of my hangar with the engine off.
 
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FAR 61.51 doesn’t say anything about Hobbs. Use actual time since ForeFlight does a great job of capturing it for you.


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flyerfocus said:
I’ve been logging my time based on Hobbs since I started flying decades ago. Now that I’m using FireFlight, ForeFlight’s Track Logs don’t always agree with Hobbs. For example, last weekend I got my daughter nauseous doing touch & goes for 1.3 hours Hobbs time and 1.5 hours based on ForeFlight. Which would you log? Logging Hobbs may be the tradition it’s not tied to an actual clock, whereas FireFlight is, thus, I believe logging ForeFlight is the more accurate way to go. Your thoughts?
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Your poor daughter! T&G for 75 minutes? You are going to ruin her if you want her to become a pilot someday! lol
 
I always try to look at multiple sources and come up with a good number. 1.2 x tach time (no hobbs meter), garmin pilot logbook, flightaware.....flightaware often doesn't start recording until I'm in the air and sometimes it stops on approach, so I keep that in mind.
 
No Hobbes on Le Arrowe.... so Le Foreflight FTW. Does a good job of starting when it is supposed to and stopping when it is supposed to.
 
Interesting, I’ve found FF to be short, not correct or long. I’ve used FF plus .2 or .3.
 
From 14 CFR 1.1:

Flight Time means:​

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or

(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.​

I've generally used Hobbs time because that's what I was taught, but its only an approximation.
 
A clock. Actually a flight timer. Starts when plane is about 40kts, stops on engine shut down. Then I usually round down because I don't consider taxi time flight time, because it's well taxiing, not flight.
 
I used my G5 data source. I wrote a quick script that grabs the logs, detects the beginning of taxi and end of taxi and spits out the time.
 
Gary Ward said:
Your poor daughter! T&G for 75 minutes? You are going to ruin her if you want her to become a pilot someday! lol
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Oh, she's okay. The flight was actually at her request. She's 24 so she knows what she's in for. It was only six T&G since we flew 20 minutes each way from a non-towered airport to a towered airport.
 
Originally a sun dial... but no longer as it's damn hard to use it for night flight activities.
 
Salty said:
I used my G5 data source. I wrote a quick script that grabs the logs, detects the beginning of taxi and end of taxi and spits out the time.
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I do something similar, GPSLogger (an android app) on my phone to record a track, with a windows app I wrote to analyze the track and show the times I was moving.
 
FF. It logs flights and times automagically. Why do anything different?
 
Hobbs for aircraft time, since it's activated at wheels up. (For other airplanes, a Hobbs that starts with oil pressure or master switch on is probably close enough to actual clock time.)
Wristwatch for block time. Both are recorded (by pen and paper) at the start and end of each flight. The block time is what I enter in my logbook.

From FAR Part 1:
§ 1.1 General definitions.
As used in Subchapters A through K of this chapter, unless the context requires otherwise:
Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or

(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.
 
Our club planes don't have a Hobbs. We use tach time X 1.2 Usually works out what the FFlight says. Prior to that I always used Hobbs.
 
Jim Carpenter said:
Hobbs for aircraft time, since it's activated at wheels up. (For other airplanes, a Hobbs that starts with oil pressure or master switch on is probably close enough to actual clock time.)
Wristwatch for block time. Both are recorded (by pen and paper) at the start and end of each flight. The block time is what I enter in my logbook.

From FAR Part 1:
§ 1.1 General definitions.
As used in Subchapters A through K of this chapter, unless the context requires otherwise:
Flight time means:

(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing; or

(2) For a glider without self-launch capability, pilot time that commences when the glider is towed for the purpose of flight and ends when the glider comes to rest after landing.
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Definition number (1) looks to me like it includes taxi and runup time as part of the flight.
 
I've had FF recording me all the way back to the FBO and into my car 20+minutes after the flight. I log what I pay for. The club bills Hobbs, I pay for Hobbs, I log Hobbs.
 
I always use the Hobbs time. It starts when I start the plane and stops when I shut it down. That matches with the FAR.
 
Palmpilot said:
Definition number (1) looks to me like it includes taxi and runup time as part of the flight.
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I disagree with the FAA on that because the purpose of taxiing isn't for flying. It's for getting into a position to take off. If I taxi all over the airport for 3 hours, take one trip around the pattern, is that really 3.1 hours of flight time? No.
"But that's an absurd amount of time to just taxi around and count it for flight, you're being preposterous!!"
I say that even 0.1 is absurd. What makes your number more correct than mine?
 
EdFred said:
I disagree with the FAA on that because the purpose of taxiing isn't for flying. It's for getting into a position to take off. If I taxi all over the airport for 3 hours, take one trip around the pattern, is that really 3.1 hours of flight time? No.
"But that's an absurd amount of time to just taxi around and count it for flight, you're being preposterous!!"
I say that even 0.1 is absurd. What makes your number more correct than mine?
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ugh, this garbage again.
 
In any other plane it was was my watch, engine start to engine stop.
In my plane, I have a timer which I use in the same manner, and I also log the tach time for every flight, for maintenance purposes.
Rational for engine start to engine stop: I'm the pilot in command from start up to shutdown. That's what I log.
 
EdFred said:
I disagree with the FAA on that because the purpose of taxiing isn't for flying. It's for getting into a position to take off. If I taxi all over the airport for 3 hours, take one trip around the pattern, is that really 3.1 hours of flight time? No.
"But that's an absurd amount of time to just taxi around and count it for flight, you're being preposterous!!"
I say that even 0.1 is absurd. What makes your number more correct than mine?
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CALL THE FSDO!!!!! There’s a scofflaw in the area!!!!!:p:D

Actually, methinks taxing around the airport avoiding others, lights, fuel trucks etc. probably requires more skill than droning along on a CAVU day on autopilot:cool:

Cheers
 
X3 Skier said:
CALL THE FSDO!!!!! There’s a scofflaw in the area!!!!!:p:D

Actually, methinks taxing around the airport avoiding others, lights, fuel trucks etc. probably requires more skill than droning along on a CAVU day on autopilot:cool:

Cheers
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It's that anti-authority in me. You know one of my 12 hazardous attitudes.
 
EdFred said:
I disagree with the FAA on that because the purpose of taxiing isn't for flying. It's for getting into a position to take off. If I taxi all over the airport for 3 hours, take one trip around the pattern, is that really 3.1 hours of flight time? No.
"But that's an absurd amount of time to just taxi around and count it for flight, you're being preposterous!!"
I say that even 0.1 is absurd. What makes your number more correct than mine?
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You are operating the aircraft during that entire 3.1, so I think that is fair. Ground operations are just as involved if not more so than flying at times. Note that the FAA includes the phrase "for the purposes of flight" to help eliminate someone just sitting on the ramp running the engine or taxiing around in circles.
 
midwestpa24 said:
You are operating the aircraft during that entire 3.1, so I think that is fair. Ground operations are just as involved if not more so than flying at times. Note that the FAA includes the phrase "for the purposes of flight" to help eliminate someone just sitting on the ramp running the engine or taxiing around in circles.
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I know what they are saying, I just don't agree that taxiing is flying. Taxiing is taxiing and flying is flying. So I log wheels up to wheels down, the time I'm actually flying. But I'm also not bound by the Hobbs, nor trying to log hours to get to some magic number. And I know why they did it the way they did, and I still don't agree with it.
 
I’ve never met someone who deducts taxi time, you have to get the weather, talk to ground, do the run up. If anything, taxi time is more work than flying itself!!
 
mandm said:
I’ve never met someone who deducts taxi time, you have to get the weather, talk to ground, do the run up. If anything, taxi time is more work than flying itself!!
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Not at an untowered field.
 
I remember one rental where the HOBBS was about 20% higher than clock time. Great for the school and logbook but it cheated training time. The owner just smiled

Now days I just use my watch.
 
Initial Fix said:
I remember one rental where the HOBBS was about 20% higher than clock time. Great for the school and logbook but it cheated training time. The owner just smiled

Now days I just use my watch.
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I’m sure the school doesn’t charge you based upon your watch :)
 
EdFred said:
I know what they are saying, I just don't agree that taxiing is flying. Taxiing is taxiing and flying is flying. So I log wheels up to wheels down, the time I'm actually flying. But I'm also not bound by the Hobbs, nor trying to log hours to get to some magic number. And I know why they did it the way they did, and I still don't agree with it.
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I'd recommend you don't log time flying with an autopilot either. Probably should only log 90% of your flying time too, because every time you blink your eyes are closed and you shouldn't log time flying with your eyes closed.
 
mandm said:
Thanks for the save. :D
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I don't think you're the one that needs to be saved.

Of course, if he wants to pay more for insurance, that's his perogative. Unless he's going pro, that's about all that it matters for anyway.
 
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