What’s the secret trick for getting a plug into a child proof socket?

[denverpilot]

I'm sure that's true. Just because something is common, does not mean that it is correct. The duplex receptacle dimensional standard is defined by ANSI NEMA WD 6 (USA) and IEC 60906-2 (International). They are depicted with the ground up in both specifications. Additionally, the Underwriters Lab safety standard for receptacles is UL 498. In this document, it is also shown with the ground up. One place you just about ALWAYS see them installed correctly is in hospitals.

Ref. Figure 15-5, page 10 of the PDF.

https://www.nema.org/Standards/Comp...n-Locking Plugs and Receptacles - Excerpt.pdf

Sure are a lot of code inspectors who don’t know what they’re doing, then.

 

[asicer]

Sure are a lot of code inspectors who don’t know what they’re doing, then.

Replace "code inspectors" with any profession of your choosing. How many can you come up with where that statement is untrue?

 

[denverpilot]

Replace "code inspectors" with any profession of your choosing. How many can you come up with where that statement is untrue?

Lots. But I don’t have to hire those idiots by law or have them inspect my work with no liability if THEY screw up doing the inspection.

Which part of “[required by government] code inspector” did you miss? Did I need to be that specific?

I can’t think of any new housing in the area that has the grounds pointing up. In any jurisdiction nearby. Not in any of the houses that younger and crazier (because of the prices they’re paying in our housing boom) co-workers are buying, anyway.

It’ll be interesting to ask an electrical contractor I know, why. Obviously the “ground up” makes electrical sense.

I suspect someone quoting ANSI is the problem here. None of the contractors or inspectors I know ever mention ANSI, only IEC. Can quote ANSI all day, doesn’t mean anyone is building to ANSI as their spec.

But that’s just speculation until I ask a local pro. Never hear ANSI out of any of their mouths as an anecdotal thing though.

 

[jsstevens]

 

[charheep]

If you have the problem of it being too tight to get in, just use lube.

 

[WannFly]

If you have the problem of it being too tight to get in, just use lube.

Which brand are you loyal to?

 

[redtail]

Sounds to me like you have poor management. If there's government money associated, it's par for the course. Why hire knowledgeable contract people to screen contractors track records and past performances? Why have knowledgeable folks out in the field supervising the work your contractors are supposed to be doing?

Sounds like the typical give the contract to the lowest bid, or a buddy scenario. Award the contract, then do things like overwhelm the jobsite with safety people and regulations (to make it look official). And heck, if the finished product doesn't meet expectations, there's always more money to throw at it. Why do a job once when you can do it two or three times more? It would appear that there's no accountability here.

Trouble is, and seriously, you're talking about life safety systems, and somebody needs to be made accountable. Contact your representatives before somebody dies. If you're worried about your job, do it tactfully and anonymously.

Control wise, at least for what you've described, it's a relatively straightforward project. What's the problem?

I agree on every point you've made. Trust me, I'm in no fear of job security and I've raised many issues over the three decades that I've been here.

Unfortunately I'm not in a management position (personal choice) and most of my frustrations and concerns fall on deaf ears, with the exception of a real life-safety concern.

The good thing is, when it comes to the actual life-safety systems, there is plenty of redundancy as to not prevent me from maintaining critical systems functionality. i.e. Six high tension feeders from two different power authorities, extra ventilation fans, tie breakers, backup generators, etc. for proper fire safety in the event of a vehicle fire, or other critical situation. So I'm pretty confident in my ability to do my job correctly and keep the patrons as safe as I can from my side of this operation. I've done so without incident from day one.

But yeah, this is a government agency (state). Lots of things here are way above my pay grade and beyond my control and influence.

 

[Matthew]

In high school a guy in one of my lab class (the room with the big tables with electrical outlets on the sides and gas outlets on top), took a foil chewing gum wrapper, folded it lengthwise a couple times to make it nice and narrow, then folded it in half and squeezed the center to make a little handle. He basically made an aluminumized paper tweezer. He then inserted the ends into the nearest outlet, right in front of him, and created a ruckus. That thing popped really loudly, in the middle of class. The teacher wasn't happy. But we all wanted to try it ourselves as soon as we could. Who said physics class has to be dull?

 

[redtail]

Lots. But I don’t have to hire those idiots by law or have them inspect my work with no liability if THEY screw up doing the inspection.

Which part of “[required by government] code inspector” did you miss? Did I need to be that specific?

I can’t think of any new housing in the area that has the grounds pointing up. In any jurisdiction nearby. Not in any of the houses that younger and crazier (because of the prices they’re paying in our housing boom) co-workers are buying, anyway.

It’ll be interesting to ask an electrical contractor I know, why. Obviously the “ground up” makes electrical sense.

I suspect someone quoting ANSI is the problem here. None of the contractors or inspectors I know ever mention ANSI, only IEC. Can quote ANSI all day, doesn’t mean anyone is building to ANSI as their spec.

But that’s just speculation until I ask a local pro. Never hear ANSI out of any of their mouths as an anecdotal thing though.

My residential work with a contractor was short lived (about a year) and I haven't installed a receptacle in years, but we never installed with the ground up, nor was that the standard taught in electrical school when I attended in high school and beyond. It does indeed make sense.

 

[RJM62]

My residential work with a contractor was short lived (about a year) and I haven't installed a receptacle in years, but we never installed with the ground up, nor was that the standard taught in electrical school when I attended in high school and after. It does indeed make sense.

The only problem with it is that most polarized or grounded wall warts and similar devices assume that the ground will be down. Sometimes it makes a difference, other times not.

Rich

 

[redtail]

The only problem with it is that most polarized or grounded wall warts and similar devices assume that the ground will be down. Sometimes it makes a difference, other times not.

Rich

Agreed.
Out of curiosity, I just took a look at the GFCI receptacle and noticed the the words "test" and "reset" are both written twice, in opposite directions (up/down). Never noticed that before.

 

[RJM62]

Sure are a lot of code inspectors who don’t know what they’re doing, then.

In my county, electricians don't have to be licensed -- and it shows in some of the wiring. Fortunately for me, one of my best friends is an electrician (who was licensed downstate), and his dad is an electrical inspector. If I run into problems troubleshooting someone else's screw-up, either my friend or his dad will "enlighten" me.

My most recent DIY job was installing a new line for GFCI receptacles in the basement. I needed two by the workbench and one by the treadmill. It's probably the neatest wiring in the house. The original wiring wasn't bad, but some of the added-on wiring was horrid. I also tracked down every circuit in the house and corrected the circuit-breaker directory while I was at it. Apparently more than one person has added onto existing circuits based on how close they were rather than whether it made any electrical sense.

Rich

 

[GeorgeC]

Obviously the “ground up” makes electrical sense.

Can you dumb it down for the unwashed among us?

 

[Everskyward]

Out of curiosity, I just took a look at the GFCI receptacle and noticed the the words "test" and "reset" are both written twice, in opposite directions (up/down). Never noticed that before.

I had a kitchen remodel that included outlets about 18 months ago, so I decided to inspect them. The GFCI receptacles are as you described, with "test" and "reset" written right side up near the top outlet and upside down near the bottom outlet. All the receptacles are ground down. I don't have any problem inserting a plug. Not sure if these are childproof outlets, though. Maybe they don't expect children to crawl on the counter. In any case, I know the installation was inspected by the city and passed.

 

[denverpilot]

Can you dumb it down for the unwashed among us?

Someone else covered it. If you drop a metallic object above a partially unplugged plug, it’ll hit the ground and bounce off instead of shorting the hot and neutral with a flash and a bang.

Honestly the US system sucks. I’d prefer the UK’s 220 outlets with individual switches on every outlet and the automatic shutters with ground prong opening them if we could rewind and do the US standard over again.

Dealing with 120 15A branches and multiple phases is silly.

 

[redtail]

I had a kitchen remodel that included outlets about 18 months ago, so I decided to inspect them. The GFCI receptacles are as you described, with "test" and "reset" written right side up near the top outlet and upside down near the bottom outlet. All the receptacles are ground down. I don't have any problem inserting a plug. Not sure if these are childproof outlets, though. Maybe they don't expect children to crawl on the counter. In any case, I know the installation was inspected by the city and passed.

yeah the one I'm looking at has it written twice on each button (also installed ground down). Bottom line is, ground up or down doesn't matter as far as the NEC is concerned. I've never read anything in the code book that states a requirement for a particular orientation. Which would explain why either installation passes inspection as long as the wiring is correct.

I've seen a lot of whacky stuff in this field, particularly when I did residential work. One apartment had all of the outlets wired in reverse polarity. The metal box and outlet covers were all hot! I had to rewire them all.
I prefer wiring three phase motors and airfield lighting

As for the GFCI being childproof, I guess the NEC logic is, "they are" by the ground fault circuit breaker tripping before the kid gets electrocuted.

 

[Hank S]

Can you dumb it down for the unwashed among us?

The ground plug is the round piece on 3-prong plugs. Almost every wall receptacle I've ever seen has the round hole (for the ground plug) closer to the floor than the slots for the two other prongs. This is what I see almost everywhere, but it's suddenly wrong . . . .



Someone above said this is upside down, since small metallic things could fall onto the two prongs, sit there long enough to arc and cause problems. Turning the receptacle over puts the third prong up, by itself, which is less likely to allow something to contact it and another prong and cause problems.

 

[WannFly]

yeah the one I'm looking at has it written twice on each button (also installed ground down). Bottom line is, ground up or down doesn't matter as far as the NEC is concerned. I've never read anything in the code book that states a requirement for a particular orientation. Which would explain why either installation passes inspection as long as the wiring is correct.

I've seen a lot of whacky stuff in this field, particularly when I did residential work. One apartment had all of the outlets wired in reverse polarity. The metal box and outlet covers were all hot! I had to rewire them all.
I prefer wiring on three phase motors and airfield lighting

As for the GFCI being childproof, I guess the NEC logic is, "they are" by the ground fault circuit breaker tripping before the kid gets electrocuted.

Well my GFCI switch on the patio has this child, er adult proofing

 

[Ghery]

Someone else covered it. If you drop a metallic object above a partially unplugged plug, it’ll hit the ground and bounce off instead of shorting the hot and neutral with a flash and a bang.

Honestly the US system sucks. I’d prefer the UK’s 220 outlets with individual switches on every outlet and the automatic shutters with ground prong opening them if we could rewind and do the US standard over again.

Dealing with 120 15A branches and multiple phases is silly.

The UK used a different socket design prior to WWII. Still used in South Africa and India. The system used now, along with the wiring behind it, was adopted in the 1940s as it uses less copper wire, something they were short of at the time. I get a kick out of the British plugs. They look entirely too big for "only" a 16 amp rating. Other than that, I do like their system for the reasons you point out.

And like most other commenters, I can't recall the last time I saw a US receptacle installed with the ground pin on the top.

 

[denverpilot]

I've seen a lot of whacky stuff in this field, particularly when I did residential work. One apartment had all of the outlets wired in reverse polarity. The metal box and outlet covers were all hot! I had to rewire them all.

That’s the first thing I check in all outlets before screwing with anything else if helping someone in a non-electrician, non-official capacity and in my own houses as soon as I move in.

The simple socket tester will catch that, and LOTS of Happy Homeowners have reversed hot and neutral and created a hazard when doing their own DIY crap when they don’t know what the heck they’re doing.

I like the socket testers with the GFCI test button on them these days to find the hidden and mis-wired, mis-used GFCI branch circuit problems too, like Happy Homeowner protecting a new bathroom with a GFCI that actually trips out two other rooms via the old branch wiring... arrrrgh.

People do incredibly stupid and dangerous crap in residential electrical thinking they did it right.

If they start messing with the panels or installing their own sub-panels (my last house, Happy Homeowner put a sub-panel in the basement when they finished it, and it was done completely wrong, both for overall load and improperly bonding neutral at that panel to ground) all bets are off.

You should have seen what they did to the PHONE wiring in the old place. OMG that was a cluster**** to clean up, but at least they weren’t going to burn the house down with what they did there.

The amazing part was they did the detached garage sub-panel correctly. I can only guess that a real electrician was involved in that one unlike the finishing of the basement... sigh.

I usually have vintage radio gear around that only has two prongs. Some dingleberry reversing hot and neutral can get me smacked when an old radio’s metal RF shielding case is hot because the neutral is bonded to the frame. Never been hit by that yet, but it’s why I check everything in any new to us house.

I usually want to look behind at least a few outlets and switches especially if they look new, too.

Usually Happy Homeowner has used the “stab” connections on those out of convenience instead of the screw terminals because they didn’t know how to do it right and make a proper mechanical connection.

After a number of years of those things being installed you can usually pull the wire right out of the stabbed connection on the back. I avoid those unless I absolutely have to use them inside a box.

One night I was sitting here in this house and kept hearing a zap. Someone had used the really old fashioned and non-code light switches and in many boxes had put TWO wires into the “laid sideways” style friction connections. One had finally worked loose and was arcing inside the switch box every so often that was feeding the outside light on a branch circuit that fed three light switches.

I couldn’t believe it when I saw that crap. I did a bunch of re-work to clean up the worst of it, but I’ve been tempted to have an electrician come in and re-work the entire upstairs. The basement was finished later in this house also, and you can tell a real electrician did that work down there, also. It’s right.

I have some long run branches that have way too much voltage drop at the end for things to be “right” when I put a load at the end — one of those runs to my office and when I first put the laser printer in the outlet I wanted and watched the lights start flickering in time with the fuser warming up, I knew things “weren’t right” in that branch. The old hair dryer load test trick in there also would have caught that.

I keep putting off having an electrician out to do it because I want to do a whole house genset out here eventually, and I’ll just hire the sparky to do that main panel work and have them add on to the contract to re-work the upstairs garbage work. It’s not “unsafe” but it isn’t right.

I bet there’s a LOT of reversed plugs and switches with the Happy Homeowners retrofitting “smart devices” into their older homes too so they can tell Alexa to turn off the lights and plugs.

The things people will do trying to fix three-way switches at the top and bottom of the staircase are just mind-boggling, too. Hahaha.

 

[redtail]

I got zapped a few times while troubleshooting some of that ****, lol.
Golden rule, assume everything is hot!

Man you are so right about the three-way switch fiasco. Now throw a four-way into the loop, lmao.

I remember when I took the electrician's practical test years ago, they tried to trip me up by throwing a few double-pole switches into the batch, hahaha. Good thing I had good shop teachers

 

[Matthew]

I tried to fix a 4-way setup at the old house where my wife grew up. Her dad had "fixed" it, somehow, many years before I came along. I figured, "How hard can it be?" That was one messed up circuit. They all had it figured out and had gotten used to it: This switch up, this one down, and then this one can be used to turn the lights on and off (or whatever the combination was).

 

[weilke]

I tried to fix a 4-way setup at the old house where my wife grew up. Her dad had "fixed" it, somehow, many years before I came along. I figured, "How hard can it be?" That was one messed up circuit. They all had it figured out and had gotten used to it: This switch up, this one down, and then this one can be used to turn the lights on and off (or whatever the combination was).

Moved into an apartment many years ago. It had just been remodeled. Landlord mentioned that 'one circuit breaker doesn't work'. Well, he was right, anytime you reset it, another one tripped. If you reset that the first one tripped..... Turns out a ''master electrician' had wired one outlet to two different limbs of a three phase distribution....

 

[Pilawt]

New construction, too. By big-name builders, even.

We bought a brand new house some years ago. Within a couple of weeks the big built-in Gaffers & Sattler oven-microwave unit quit dead. Builder blamed G&S, G&S blamed builder. Finally somebody came out and pulled the unit out. Seems the 20-amp tail from the appliance was down low, and short; and the 20-amp outlet behind it was at shoulder height. So the installer had done the only logical thing ... put in a 15-amp extension cord.

Yes, he had used a pair of pliers to twist the 20-amp prong 90 degrees to fit the 15-amp extension cord. And all of the other ten houses on the street were exactly the same way.

 

[redtail]

I tried to fix a 4-way setup at the old house where my wife grew up. Her dad had "fixed" it, somehow, many years before I came along. I figured, "How hard can it be?" That was one messed up circuit. They all had it figured out and had gotten used to it: This switch up, this one down, and then this one can be used to turn the lights on and off (or whatever the combination was).

Yep, I've seen these situations numerous times. The root of it is due to lack of a solid understanding of basic electrical circuits and wiring diagrams. As well as a lack of solid troubleshooting skills. It's easy for someone to start playing with circuits, but you have to be able to visualize the flow of current in your head before you start "fixing" things. A lot of guys are weak in theory.

Sort of like flying. You should be able to visualize the various phases of flight, traffic patterns, etc, BEFORE you execute them.

What her dad didn't understand was the logic of 3-way and 4-way switches and the function of the "traveler wires". When wired correctly, you should be able to turn the lights on and off from ANY switch in the circuit. A 3-way switch on each end, with as many 4-ways as you want in between. Usually just one, which allows the lights to be controlled from three locations in the house.

 

[jsstevens]

Yep, I've seen these situations numerous times. The root of it is due to lack of a solid understanding of basic electrical circuits and wiring diagrams. As well as a lack of solid troubleshooting skills. It's easy for someone to start playing with circuits, but you have to be able to visualize the flow of current in your head before you start "fixing" things. A lot of guys are weak in theory.

Sort of like flying. You should be able to visualize the various phases of flight, traffic patterns, etc, BEFORE you execute them.

What her dad didn't understand was the logic of 3-way and 4-way switches and the function of the "traveler wires". When wired correctly, you should be able to turn the lights on and off from ANY switch in the circuit. A 3-way switch on each end, with as many 4-ways as you want in between. Usually just one, which allows the lights to be controlled from three locations in the house.

I've troubleshot many of those over the years. And taught several folks how they work so THEY could troubleshoot them. It's really pretty simple, but people get so confused...

 

[jaymark6655]

Regular dimmer: $4.95
LED dimmer: $29.95
At least when I bought one at Home Depot last year.

Oh, and make sure the LED bulb is dimmable (it will say on the package), as all of them aren't.

They are quite a bit cheaper now, $4.99 for a 6 pack of 60W equivalent. Even when they were more expensive it you divided cost by expected cost regular and LED cost about the same per hour of use. With how cheap they are now my local stores have stopped carrying CFLs.

For those stupid adult proof plugs I usually push the plug in, while pushing apply side pressure in the direction the cover is supposed to slide. If that doesn't work, replace outlet, it easy and Lowes or HD sell them for a couple of bucks.

 

[denverpilot]

Yep, I've seen these situations numerous times. The root of it is due to lack of a solid understanding of basic electrical circuits and wiring diagrams. As well as a lack of solid troubleshooting skills. It's easy for someone to start playing with circuits, but you have to be able to visualize the flow of current in your head before you start "fixing" things. A lot of guys are weak in theory.

I just mess with their heads when they think they have DC current flow figured out...

“So does current flow from positive to negative as in traditional current flow in the books, or from negative to positive as the physics engineers say?”

LOL...

And then if they get that...

“If you can only have one fuse, which side, positive or negative, should have the fuse closest to the source in a negative 48 VDC telecom power system?”

(The first question on that one will be, “what’s a -48VDC power system?!” out of anyone who’s never worked in telecom. Hahahaha!)

Ahhh ground is ground the world around, but ground might be hooked to the positive side of a DC System... such fun.

If you really want to watch a cool fight, take a strict NEC person, a telecom person, and an industrial controls person, put them all in a locked room, and tell them not to come out until they have a solid answer on wiring color code for DC power distribution systems.

LOL.

If you want to start a secondary fight, ask them how many wires and what gauge can be run from a single 600A DC power supply.

 

[Matthew]

red-to-red, black-to-black.

That's about all I know.

And V=I*R, I know that, too.

 

[Ghery]

What her dad didn't understand was the logic of 3-way and 4-way switches and the function of the "traveler wires". When wired correctly, you should be able to turn the lights on and off from ANY switch in the circuit. A 3-way switch on each end, with as many 4-ways as you want in between. Usually just one, which allows the lights to be controlled from three locations in the house.

All that 4-way switch is is a DPDT wired as a phase reverser. And you are correct, put as many as you want between the 3-way switches (which are simply SPDT) and away you go. I learned that trick in junior high school in science class.

 

[Hank S]

I've troubleshot many of those over the years. And taught several folks how they work so THEY could troubleshoot them. It's really pretty simple, but people get so confused...

That's because the enclosed paperwork doesn't show all of the wires.

3-way switches require a fat cable with 4 wires inside. The silly instructions show lines for 3 wires. So expect many variations in connection style when done by Harry Homeowner, or people like me with education, training, experience and mindset towards mechanical things . . . . . Improve the dad blamed instructions, we could all do it right the first time!

 

[redtail]

I just mess with their heads when they think they have DC current flow figured out...

“So does current flow from positive to negative as in traditional current flow in the books, or from negative to positive as the physics engineers say?”

LOL...

And then if they get that...

“If you can only have one fuse, which side, positive or negative, should have the fuse closest to the source in a negative 48 VDC telecom power system?”

(The first question on that one will be, “what’s a -48VDC power system?!” out of anyone who’s never worked in telecom. Hahahaha!)

Ahhh ground is ground the world around, but ground might be hooked to the positive side of a DC System... such fun.

If you really want to watch a cool fight, take a strict NEC person, a telecom person, and an industrial controls person, put them all in a locked room, and tell them not to come out until they have a solid answer on wiring color code for DC power distribution systems.

LOL.

If you want to start a secondary fight, ask them how many wires and what gauge can be run from a single 600A DC power supply.

Mr. Clark, my electrical shop teacher was an old Navy electrician. He strictly taught 'Conventional Flow' theory and would beat you over the head if you talked anything about Electron flow going from negative to positive, lol. Then in electronics class you learn Electron flow, but from a practical standpoint, direction doesn't matter, as long as you understand the basics.

The old geezer was one hell of a teacher when it came to AC. Single and Three phase motor controls, transformers, switchgear, etc.

Admittedly, I struggled more in electronics class at DeVry.

 

[3393RP]

This is exactly the code compliant type I have in my place, and they are gradually all being replaced with the plain old child-killer type, because most of tamper-proof ones are so secure they are unusable.

My wife's 81 year old friend had a remodel done, and couldn't use any of these "safety" type outlets. I replaced them for her.

 

[3393RP]

I just mess with their heads when they think they have DC current flow figured out...

“So does current flow from positive to negative as in traditional current flow in the books, or from negative to positive as the physics engineers say?”

LOL...

And then if they get that...

“If you can only have one fuse, which side, positive or negative, should have the fuse closest to the source in a negative 48 VDC telecom power system?”

(The first question on that one will be, “what’s a -48VDC power system?!” out of anyone who’s never worked in telecom. Hahahaha!)

Ahhh ground is ground the world around, but ground might be hooked to the positive side of a DC System... such fun.

If you really want to watch a cool fight, take a strict NEC person, a telecom person, and an industrial controls person, put them all in a locked room, and tell them not to come out until they have a solid answer on wiring color code for DC power distribution systems.

LOL.

If you want to start a secondary fight, ask them how many wires and what gauge can be run from a single 600A DC power supply.

.

I'm a master electrician, but I have also been working in mechanical and general construction since my teens. As a GC, I had some challenges explaining -48 VDC plant installations to my electrical contractors. I think I was one of the first GCs in my area that hired commercial electrical contractors to do that work in the 1990s. The contractors had good experience building large data centers with UPS and generator systems.

At the time, the DC plant "specialists" were charging outrageous prices for their work, and they were too busy to properly man time critical projects.

I put together training manuals that explained methods, and copies of relevant codes and procedures. I also provided marked up catalogs of vendors that provided the hardware for ladder rack systems to help estimators and supervisors, and built rack mock-ups on the jobsite.

They handled the new concept well. I never had any problem with customer or Lucent inspectors on the DC work, although I did have to hire a couple of employees that knew how to lace the wiring.

 

[denverpilot]

.
They handled the new concept well. I never had any problem with customer or Lucent inspectors on the DC work, although I did have to hire a couple of employees that knew how to lace the wiring.

Lol awesome.

We built some pre made racks for AT&T central offices and after the first two they asked if we could lower our labor costs which was direct T&M for that part of it. We said, “If you can get us a waiver as an ‘assembled unit’ to not have to lace it all and use tie-wraps!”

Crazy thing was, their VP did it! We got a waiver for lacing. We were so amazed.

I show up to oversee the first seven or eight rack installation and I see the union AT&T guys poking and prodding at the tie-wraps. I came prepared with the waiver copies. Handed the foreman a couple (one for him, one for his boss).

Day later they’re in the cabinets with six guys (on overtime I’m sure) cutting out our tie-wraps and lacing it all. But they were a LOT faster at it than we were! Hahaha.

I let the VP know. He sighed and said “Yeah, just let them do it.” He visited the CO the next day and we chuckled about it (out of earshot of the Union guys).

He bought seven more sites worth of cabinets pre-rack & stacked from us and even paid to FedEx the entire seven or so cabinets of gear twice to catch up on a growth schedule they had money for. That was interesting. The cabinets fit the aircraft by about 3/4” after they had wood bolted to them to crate them.

Every single cabinet I ever saw at later sites had all the wiring laced. LOL. I guess he tried and even had Union and SME and engineering approval ... and they still ripped all those tie-wraps out and laced those cabinets of gear. Hahaha.

Bell heads. I learned a lot from a bunch of ‘em, but man were they set in their ways.

 

[FastEddieB]

A few points...

1) In our new home being built, all the outlets have been installed ground down, which for me is the “normal” way.

2) I’ve had occasion over the last several years to buy RV pedestals and other weather resistant outdoor receptacle boxes. All have had the ground up arrangement. RV pedestal as delivered:

3) It seems right angle plugs and adapters assume ground down. Ground up leads to a less than ideal outcome:

 

[Hank S]

In addition to the poor alignment of the outlet to the right when being used, I can't help but notice that the manufacturer's name printed on the outlet face is upside down. That's usually a good clue for intended orientation. I know my employer goes to great lengths to have our company name presented exactly as they want, and it's never upside down . . . .

 

[asicer]

3) It seems right angle plugs and adapters assume ground down. Ground up leads to a less than ideal outcome:

I guess no drip leg for you.

 

[denverpilot]

So I’ve been wondering. Does anyone know how to get a child into a plug proof socket?

Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Half Fast]

So I’ve been wondering. Does anyone know how to get a child into a plug proof socket?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Liquify ‘em in a blender then squirt ‘em in with a turkey baster. Pretty simple once you get the hang of it.