Weird thought on 360 deg. turns

Greg Bockelman said:
The wake turbulence descends relative to the wing, not the earth. So in a steep banked turn, the wake turbulence will remain pretty close to the same altitude.
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the math doesn't add up. lets say you are at 45 degree bank to the let, your right wing tip is say 20 feet above the fuselage, you take 30 seconds to come back to the same heading, the wake seems to not descend at all if you are hitting it. its definitely not descending at 500 ft per min
 
The winds will also play a part in the wake. That's why we don't always hit it, even though we fly the steep turn perfectly every time. :)

We would probably want to assume purely calm winds with no convective currents if we do any actual calculations.
 
WannFly said:
the math doesn't add up. lets say you are at 45 degree bank to the let, your right wing tip is say 20 feet above the fuselage, you take 30 seconds to come back to the same heading, the wake seems to not descend at all if you are hitting it. its definitely not descending at 500 ft per min
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The propeller also develops turbulence that doesn't necessarily sink. I haven't really tried to analyze the bump, but have felt it many times. If you haven't I suggest asking an instructor to demonstrate.
 
PaulS said:
The propeller also develops turbulence that doesn't necessarily sink. I haven't really tried to analyze the bump, but have felt it many times. If you haven't I suggest asking an instructor to demonstrate.
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well I have hit it and hence the question... if its descending and I am holding my ALT... how come I am hitting it?
 
and don't forget, if you're in Australia your vortices will spin in the opposite direction.
 
WannFly said:
well I have hit it and hence the question... if its descending and I am holding my ALT... how come I am hitting it?
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Maybe it's not the vortices you are hitting, maybe it's disturbed air from the prop. I don't know. I've always heard it referred to as wake, not wing tip vortices.
 
and don't forget if you're in Australia your wake will spin in the opposite direction.
 
Witmo said:
Only 80 posts to explain turning 360 degrees. Way to go POA. What if I pull back on the stick? Won't I end up on the same heading I start out at after flying a complete circle? If I start out on a heading of North, I'll see south have way through the maneuver. I'm so confused....
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Just keep pulling.
 
Matthew said:
In the 150, wake turbulence hits from behind.
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I knew of a pilot who was interested in purchasing a Beech Sundowner....

He had on list pre-buy inspection item list checking the trailing edges for bird strikes.
 
AggieMike88 said:
A good demo of the Coriolis Effect from Ecuador...

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Yeah, but what if that pan was in a 45 degree steep turn??........kidding!

But the real question is, can @eman1200 find a way to infuse Velcro properties into water? It would never spill out! Just reach in and rip out a drink when you're ready...
 
AggieMike88 said:
A good demo of the Coriolis Effect from Ecuador...

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Actually, no, it's a very poor example of the Coriolis Effect, since the Coriolis Effect only affects things on a very large scale, such as hurricanes. Think about it...would the direction of drainage really change by something as subtle as the earth's rotation, on something as small as a sink, and moving a matter of 30 or so feet from the equator? In the example shown, the change of the drainage direction is caused by the way the water is poured into the sink. It has NOTHING to do with the Coriolis Effect. Watch the video. When the water drains in a clockwise direction, she pours the water into the sink just to the left of the drain (as she faces the sink). When the water drained in the counter-clockwise direction, she poured the water into the sink just to the right of the drain (as she faces it). It's a myth that the Coriolis Effect affects things like toilet water swirl direction, and sink drainage. It has more to do with how the water has entered the receptacle. This is actually a very good video though showing how this gag is pulled off.
 
Someone who might actually have the right setup and initial conditions to actually demonstrate corriolis:


And two of them:

 
-KLB- said:
Someone who might actually have the right setup and initial conditions to actually demonstrate corriolis:


And two of them:

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Ok, I stand corrected...somewhat. So yes, in a very controlled environment, with water standing for an entire day, and no introduction of swirling by sticking your hand in the water, the corriolis effect can affect a small pool of water. However, in the case of the initial video from Ecuador, it was a trick.
 
AggieMike88 said:
A good demo of the Coriolis Effect from Ecuador...

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BS!!!!!!
I don't buy that for a second.
NO way it could discern that close to the equator.

Look how she pours the water in the 2nd and 3rd time.
The first time, the bucket is prefilled and stagnant.

The 2nd time, she pours slightly to the left such that you can even see the leaf at the far end in a clockwise circular motion.

The 3rd time, she clearly pours from the right side creating a counterclockwise flow.

Flag on the play, intentional Coriolis instigation. half the distance to the equator. Automatic 1st down.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
BS!!!!!!
I don't buy that for a second.
NO way it could discern that close to the equator.

Look how she pours the water in the 2nd and 3rd time.
The first time, the bucket is prefilled and stagnant.

The 2nd time, she pours slightly to the left such that you can even see the leaf at the far end in a clockwise circular motion.

The 3rd time, she clearly pours from the right side creating a counterclockwise flow.

Flag on the play, intentional Coriolis instigation. half the distance to the equator. Automatic 1st down.
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AggieMike88 said:
A good demo of the Coriolis Effect from Ecuador...

Click to expand...

Coriolis force at the level of a draining sink or toilet is so miniscule that it's not a factor. The irregularites of the bowl or drain are much larger factors, as is any movement of the water is the bowl just before the drain is opened.

Coriolis is noticeable on large moving masses like air masses, larger ships, and, as some have claimed, northbound or southbound trains.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coriolis_force
Draining in bathtubs and toilets
Contrary to popular misconception, water rotation in home bathrooms under normal circumstances is not related to the Coriolis effect or to the rotation of the Earth, and no consistent difference in rotation direction between toilet drainage in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres can be observed.[47][48][49][50] The formation of a vortex over the plug hole may be explained by the conservation of angular momentum: The radius of rotation decreases as water approaches the plug hole, so the rate of rotation increases, for the same reason that an ice skater's rate of spin increases as they pull their arms in. Any rotation around the plug hole that is initially present accelerates as water moves inward.

The Coriolis force still affects the direction of the flow of water, but only minutely. Only if the water is so still that the effective rotation rate of the Earth is faster than that of the water relative to its container, and if externally applied torques (such as might be caused by flow over an uneven bottom surface) are small enough, the Coriolis effect may indeed determine the direction of the vortex. Without such careful preparation, the Coriolis effect is likely to be much smaller than various other influences on drain direction[51] such as any residual rotation of the water[52] and the geometry of the container.[53] Despite this, the idea that toilets and bathtubs drain differently in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres has been popularized by several television programs and films, including Escape Plan, Wedding Crashers, The Simpsons episode "Bart vs. Australia", Pole to Pole,[54][55] and The X-Files episode "Die Hand Die Verletzt".[56] Several science broadcasts and publications, including at least one college-level physics textbook, have also stated this.[57][58]
 
For generations kids grow up believing that toilet water in Moorooka Australia spins the opposite direction as it does in Akron Ohio then along comes Wikipedia and throws a wet blanket on the whole idea. Next thing you know they are telling you that guy never did strap JATO rockets to his Impala and end up embeded in the side of a New Mexico mesa and the whole world gets a little bit less interesting. What a bummer...
 
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