Weak IFR Clearance Skills

Ron Levy said:
I think he said "VFR flight plans." ATC normally doesn't have time to open them for you, so you pretty much have to call FSS direct to do that, and talking on 122.1/listening on the VOR is one way to do that.
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That's been my experience too, except that when I was training out of 76G (near PHN) back in '02, Selfridge Approach would always be very obliging about opening VFR flight plans. Things may have changed though, as one time that I asked them to do that about a year ago, they said "unable".

But... we were talking about IFR clearances, not VFR flight plans.
 
azure said:
That's been my experience too, except that when I was training out of 76G (near PHN) back in '02, Selfridge Approach would always be very obliging about opening VFR flight plans.
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Perhaps it's because they don't permit practice approaches they have the time available to help with flight plans.:rolleyes:
But... we were talking about IFR clearances, not VFR flight plans.
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We were, but I don't think RMCN172RG was.
RMCN172RG said:
I opened my VFR flight plans that way during training from PHN.
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Ron Levy said:
My experience is that it's rare receive your clearance and release that fast anywhere there's any significant IFR traffic around. Also, if you get anything other than "cleared as filed," it may take you longer than three minutes to check the new route, ensure that it's OK, load it in your system, and launch. YMMV, but I prefer to get the clearance in the chocks and then call for release when I'm number one. If nothing else, you could be blocking VFR departures while you do all that rerouting stuff in the #1 position.
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Valid points. I fly the same basic routes most of the time, so I know what to expect. Also, we pull off to the side at Wings to get the clearance, so I wouldn't block anyone. That would be obnoxious!!
 
RMCN172RG said:
I was offereing it as an IFR option in the air if Detroit approach is to busy. I have never done it for an IFR clearance but it should be possible.
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As I said, it is theoretically possible, but won't work anywhere ATC is too busy to talk to you, since the FSS specialist has to get the clearance from the same ATC position that was too busy to give it to you directly. Better to wait to get a word in with the controller, or until you get to another, less-busy sector.
 
Ron Levy said:
Perhaps it's because they don't permit practice approaches they have the time available to help with flight plans.:rolleyes:
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Heh. Well, they apparently don't have time any more to open flight plans, or they've just decided not to indulge us. Or maybe I just tried them on a busy day. I'm really not sure.

The not allowing practice approaches is probably a corollary to not allowing GA pilots to overfly the field at any altitude in the Class D. If you're on a bearing that will take you within a mile or two of the base, they will tell you, in no uncertain terms, not to overfly.

When I was training out of 76G in '02, my CFI told me stories about doing practice PAR approaches there in past years. My understanding is that it was 9/11/01 that changed everything.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Out west, I've had them ask me to get airborne first. Even one time at Orange County NY. Never in Philly - only a lecture.
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I called Philly Approach for my clearance in the air after departing Wings a couple years ago... I didn't get a lecture, but I did get an oh-**** re-route... Full route clearance, starting from the Pottstown VOR, when I was less than a mile from the VOR! :yikes:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I called Philly Approach for my clearance in the air after departing Wings a couple years ago... I didn't get a lecture, but I did get an oh-**** re-route... Full route clearance, starting from the Pottstown VOR, when I was less than a mile from the VOR! :yikes:
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That wasn't a re-route since you never got your route in the first place. :rofl:

I think you very rarely get "cleared as filed" in the northeast unless you have a good idea of the normal routings they use. Since the advent of fltplan.com I take a look at the routings that previous airplanes have filed. Before that when I was on my own to pick a route I virtually never got it.
 
Everskyward said:
That wasn't a re-route since you never got your route in the first place. :rofl:
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It was a re-route from what I had filed and programmed in my GPS. ;)

I think you very rarely get "cleared as filed" in the northeast unless you have a good idea of the normal routings they use. Since the advent of fltplan.com I take a look at the routings that previous airplanes have filed. Before that when I was on my own to pick a route I virtually never got it.
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We are definitely spoiled in the Midwest. We always get "cleared as filed" unless we filed through airspace where we'd have to talk to Chicago Approach. Then it's gotta go through KELSI... :frown2:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
It was a re-route from what I had filed and programmed in my GPS. ;)
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I get "cleared as filed" nearly every time in the Northeast Corridor. However, that's because I've been flying here for 20 years, and know better than to file anything other than the TEC routes in the A/FD (or something that joins them) for operations below about 10,000 MSL.
 
azure said:
When I was training out of 76G in '02, my CFI told me stories about doing practice PAR approaches there in past years. My understanding is that it was 9/11/01 that changed everything.
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Just for the record, I was training over at PHN on Wed with my CFII and asked the Selfridge controller about this. He confirmed what I wrote above (and what Ray wrote earlier): that practice approaches into Selfridge are no longer allowed, and it was as of 9/11 that they were discontinued.
 
Ron Levy said:
I get "cleared as filed" nearly every time in the Northeast Corridor. However, that's because I've been flying here for 20 years, and know better than to file anything other than the TEC routes in the A/FD (or something that joins them) for operations below about 10,000 MSL.
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Yeah, well, I filed for what I wanted: Direct (mostly). I think it was KLOM -> PTW -> KUNV. Silly me. ;)
 
Ron Levy said:
I get "cleared as filed" nearly every time in the Northeast Corridor. However, that's because I've been flying here for 20 years, and know better than to file anything other than the TEC routes in the A/FD (or something that joins them) for operations below about 10,000 MSL.
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Exactly. Actually, the cutoff is 9k. That and above is owned by Center -- I found that out by filing 11k, and was told the only route I could get at 9k or above was over the ocean (ditch/drift/manta routes) because "that's owned by center."
 
azure said:
Just for the record, I was training over at PHN on Wed with my CFII and asked the Selfridge controller about this. He confirmed what I wrote above (and what Ray wrote earlier): that practice approaches into Selfridge are no longer allowed, and it was as of 9/11 that they were discontinued.
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Odd. I've shot approaches at Volk ANGB since 9/11, and I just shot an ILS into Moffett today. :dunno:
 
Ron Levy said:
My experience is that it's rare receive your clearance and release that fast anywhere there's any significant IFR traffic around. Also, if you get anything other than "cleared as filed," it may take you longer than three minutes to check the new route, ensure that it's OK, load it in your system, and launch. YMMV, but I prefer to get the clearance in the chocks and then call for release when I'm number one. If nothing else, you could be blocking VFR departures while you do all that rerouting stuff in the #1 position.
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Chi Tracon usually does not want you to call them until you are ready to go. If you call too early you will be told to call back when ready to depart. There are also pretty standard departure routes for Chicago. Does not matter what you file you will get that standard route. I know from my airport is it is alway heading of 180, 3000 feet Radar vectors..... Even if I am headed north I will first be on that 180 heading and once they have me in radar contact they will turn me north.
 
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