Was I unreasonable?

comanchepilot

comanchepilot

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Joe Farrell, yeah, him
Here is your chance . . . . to savage me.

Was negotiating to buy an airplane. We agreed on a price but hung up on delivery.

The airplane is in some small town in Wisconsin being annualed. It is based outside Chicago. There is no rental car return service in this town or even close by. Not even at the FBO. No air service. No train service. Not even Greyhound.

Its about an hour drive out of Milwaukee.

The seller is at his winter home in Florida. He is not coming back. We would use Escrow.

At first I asked the plane be delivered about 120 nm away where I have inlaws - its December when the deal would close. I wanted to be someplace I could hang in case the weather turned.

He refused - because he's not there.

I suggested Milwaukee. OR Waukesha - someplace I can return a rental car. With a hotel. Someplace I could get to. It was a 30 min drive from this small town airport to Waukesha. I asked if someone [mechanic / broker / etc] could fly it there- and I'd pick it up.

Refused.

Maybe a friend, or relative or mechanic could come pick me up, or return a car for me.

Refused to ask.

I don't know what to think. Last two airplanes I bought - well - the seller was willing to work with getting me to where they were. In one case, a guy flew from Plainview to Dallas to pick me up. In the other, the guy flew the airplane to me after I paid.

He did suggest that a broker he knows would fly the airplane to meet me of I flew him back 150 miles out of my way.

So the deal fell through. I had several ideas and suggestions for getting me to the airplane - all of which were ignored or refused.

Should I have paid $150 for an uber to this little airport to pick up this airplane? I just thought its unreasonable to put an airplane at a virtually inaccessible spot and expect the buyer to fly 2000 miles to come get it - and not be willing to find someone to drive him the last 20 miles. . . .
 
Doesn't sound like the seller wanted to sell it too badly. Can't fault him for not willing to leave FL but he could have been reasonable and met you halfway.

I'd just chalk it up and move on.
 
At first I read this and I was thinking "yeah, screw him" but I think he's probably right. Why should he move the AP before it's closed? Anytime during the process it could go bad, now he has to get his AP back. I think I'm siding with him on this one, it's your problem to solve. What type of airplane are we talking about?
 
I'd have likely reached same end you did.

But I've been accused of letting principled stands get the best of me.
 
Yes. Ok, no.

My thoughts are if he really wanted to sell the plane then he would have worked something out with you.

Let him sit on it longer. Are you out any money by walking away?
 
Looks like failures on both sides. He didn’t like your requests and you didn’t like his counter. Quite frankly it appears you value your time more than you value other folks time.

The old adage about fish in the sea comes to mind. Neither of you really want to close the deal.
 
Myself? I’d just have figured out a way to get it. Seriously...you invested a lot of time finding this airplane and deciding to make the purchase.

You’re going to throw all that time and effort away and have to redo significantly more work which will cost you a hell of a lot more time and money than just sorting the last mile problem yourself.
 
Just a matter of how much ya want it. You buyin it and him sellin it. Neither of you wanted it bad enough.
 
I do not think it is a case of being reasonable or unreasonable but one of motivation. Maybe he was not as motivated to sell and you were not as motivated to buy. Just did not work out. It will probably still be there in the Spring when he gets back from Florida. FWIW, if it was a good deal, I would make it happen. I bought a plane in Indianapolis in the middle of winter. COLD! PIA but after it was bought and home, I mostly forgot about the trouble. I had a great plane at a good price.
 
Clark1961 said:
Looks like failures on both sides. He didn’t like your requests and you didn’t like his counter. Quite frankly it appears you value your time more than you value other folks time.

The old adage about fish in the sea comes to mind. Neither of you really want to close the deal.
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Kind of agree with this. Yes, the seller was being problematic, but he did offer a way to get the airplane delivered.

It seems to me that in the end, while the seller was being a pain, you didn’t want the airplane bad enough, which is certainly your prerogative.
 
comanchepilot said:
Should I have paid $150 for an uber to this little airport to pick up this airplane? I just thought its unreasonable to put an airplane at a virtually inaccessible spot and expect the buyer to fly 2000 miles to come get it - and not be willing to find someone to drive him the last 20 miles. . . .
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Honestly, $150 Uber is a drop in the bucket when you are buying an airplane...even a sub-$20k C150.

If I liked the airplane enough, I’d do it.
 
Not sure but it sounds like you let $150 get in the way of sealing the deal (the Uber ride). Small price to pay if it was the right plane for u.
 
Yeah I would have told you to kick rocks too

How much of a debutant are you? You're buying a plane, not personally going to be there for the prebuy, going to have it delivered to you like Amazon?

Come on dude, frankly if you're not serious enough to personally go look at the thing you're not serious enough to take serious.

That is unless you are stupid rich and just wire all the funds and agree to take it as is
 
If you want the airplane,the problem is yours to solve. You agreed on a price,without any provisions for delivery. How bad did you beat him up on the asking price?
 
Hire a ferry pilot, let them deal with the logistics.
 
I'm certain the guy is happy the deal fell through. "Sorry Honey, the buyer was unreasonable."

But yah, if you really wanted the plane you would have it.
 
Plus talk about short changing yourself

One of the most memorable flight I've had in my 5k ish hrs was picking my first plane up from Indiana and flying it back to the PNW.
The seller put me up overnight while I turned wrenches with the APIA on the prebuy, showed me around a new state to me, then I did the low and slow VFR fligt with my first plane across our great country and back home, it's was epic and I leaned TONS as a low time PPL and aspiring CPL.

Some folks just don't know how to GA ;)

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To the OP - I feel your frustration that he seller wasn't "meeting you in the middle." But think about it from his perspective. He's not in the state, can't really control what happens, and doesn't know you (and expect his friends to trust you as they give you a ride.) And given the geographic location and that it's December, I don't think I would want to risk flying my plane to an airport without some assurance that it would be well taken care of if you decide not to buy.

The broker flying 150 miles to meet you seemed reasonable to me. Especially if you were going to be at your in-laws and could have flown (or driven) the broker back. Or the Uber ride at $150 would have been OK too. After everything else, paying for a $150 ride would be a drop in the bucket, and you'd have long forgotten about it after you got your airplane.
 
I'd say you didn't want to buy the plane very badly. $150 cab fare be a deal breaker?
 
$150 for an Uber ride....?????

In the future, you may want to broadcast on this list to see if there is any one that could help you with the logistics... that is getting to and from... for instance, I would have flown back, got a rental, dropped you off, and the meet you somewhere to pick me up and them flown back to Sunny So Cal with you..

Easy Peasy... lemon squeasy
 
If the plane is worth it, go get it man!!! Can't understand how a $150 Uber ride would be the go/no-go factor? It's hard to find a good ship, set the hook when u got one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
comanchepilot said:
Here is your chance . . . . to savage me.

Was negotiating to buy an airplane. We agreed on a price but hung up on delivery.

The airplane is in some small town in Wisconsin being annualed. It is based outside Chicago. There is no rental car return service in this town or even close by. Not even at the FBO. No air service. No train service. Not even Greyhound.

Its about an hour drive out of Milwaukee.

The seller is at his winter home in Florida. He is not coming back. We would use Escrow.

At first I asked the plane be delivered about 120 nm away where I have inlaws - its December when the deal would close. I wanted to be someplace I could hang in case the weather turned.

He refused - because he's not there.

I suggested Milwaukee. OR Waukesha - someplace I can return a rental car. With a hotel. Someplace I could get to. It was a 30 min drive from this small town airport to Waukesha. I asked if someone [mechanic / broker / etc] could fly it there- and I'd pick it up.

Refused.

Maybe a friend, or relative or mechanic could come pick me up, or return a car for me.

Refused to ask.

I don't know what to think. Last two airplanes I bought - well - the seller was willing to work with getting me to where they were. In one case, a guy flew from Plainview to Dallas to pick me up. In the other, the guy flew the airplane to me after I paid.

He did suggest that a broker he knows would fly the airplane to meet me of I flew him back 150 miles out of my way.

So the deal fell through. I had several ideas and suggestions for getting me to the airplane - all of which were ignored or refused.

Should I have paid $150 for an uber to this little airport to pick up this airplane? I just thought its unreasonable to put an airplane at a virtually inaccessible spot and expect the buyer to fly 2000 miles to come get it - and not be willing to find someone to drive him the last 20 miles. . . .
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This is not nearly as unusual as you might imagine. Similar has happened to me. More than once. But I never got this far into the deal before it surfaced. They don't really want to sell. They are wasting your time. Move on. There's no shortage of airplanes for sale, and it's a lot easier to buy a plane than sell a plane.
 
I paid round trip airfare to go look at my plane.
Rented a car to drive from NYC To Danbury Connecticut
Got a hotel and Beer (Cajun and Eman were too wishy washy to hook up)
I tried to buy the seller a beer but he declined so I bought myself 2
I paid $200 for a locksmith to unlock the rental car after I locked the keys in it at the airport in Danbury
I then hired a guy to look at it for $500
then I paid a guy $1500 to fly it to me.

Its in my hangar now and I flew it to Gaston's.

I feel like maybe you weren't all that committed to this plane if inconvenience and a few bucks was enough to table it.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I paid round trip airfare to go look at my plane.
Rented a car to drive from NYC To Danbury Connecticut
Got a hotel and Beer (Cajun and Eman were too wishy washy to hook up)
I tried to buy the seller a beer but he declined so I bought myself 2
I paid $200 for a locksmith to unlock the rental car after I locked the keys in it at the airport in Danbury
I then hired a guy to look at it for $500
then I paid a guy $1500 to fly it to me.

Its in my hangar now and I flew it to Gaston's.

I feel like maybe you weren't all that committed to this plane if inconvenience and a few bucks was enough to table it.
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For Everything Else There Is MasterCard
 
The times that I bought my planes, I figured out a way...I did not leave it up to the seller. I figured it wasn’t his problem, it was mine...although I did ask for suggestions, and on a couple of my buys the sellers bent over backwards, but not on every plane I bought.
Btw, I once spent $900 on a $150 flight to go get a plane (because I had to buy the ticket last minute), then paid $300 for a nearly-100 mile taxi...but both were just details to me when ultimately I was spending $50k.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I paid round trip airfare to go look at my plane.
Rented a car to drive from NYC To Danbury Connecticut
Got a hotel and Beer (Cajun and Eman were too wishy washy to hook up)
I tried to buy the seller a beer but he declined so I bought myself 2
I paid $200 for a locksmith to unlock the rental car after I locked the keys in it at the airport in Danbury
I then hired a guy to look at it for $500
then I paid a guy $1500 to fly it to me.

Its in my hangar now and I flew it to Gaston's.

I feel like maybe you weren't all that committed to this plane if inconvenience and a few bucks was enough to table it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but as your videos show, you're an idiot. J/k
 
Good, clean airplanes are hard to find. Speaking of which, what's to come of your 260 C?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I paid round trip airfare to go look at my plane.
Rented a car to drive from NYC To Danbury Connecticut
Got a hotel and Beer (Cajun and Eman were too wishy washy to hook up)
I tried to buy the seller a beer but he declined so I bought myself 2
I paid $200 for a locksmith to unlock the rental car after I locked the keys in it at the airport in Danbury
I then hired a guy to look at it for $500
then I paid a guy $1500 to fly it to me.

Its in my hangar now and I flew it to Gaston's.

I feel like maybe you weren't all that committed to this plane if inconvenience and a few bucks was enough to table it.
Click to expand...

Danbury is where I learned to fly! My Dad still lives in the area, you could have stayed at his house. I probably could have even talked them into picking you up in New York.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Danbury is where I learned to fly! My Dad still lives in the area, you could have stayed at his house. I probably could have even talked them into picking you up in New York.
Click to expand...

Do you realize what you're saying and suggesting? Expose your Dad to Bryan with a Y? You must not love your Dad. ;)
 
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