I'd love to hear from someone with better knowledge of such matters than myself, but the videos I've seen on the internet sure LOOK (IMHE) like what I at least imagine a tactical air strike might look like.
Warehouse explosion in Tianjin, China
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Gucci Pilot
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"Are we dangerous here?" "Yeah we're dangerous!"
Dav8or
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I think some of you guys have your government agencies mixed up. OSHA are the people that try to make sure things don't go boom! The EPA are the guys that try to see that the land, the waters and the sky don't become fouled. This is clearly an industrial accident, (well, unless there was some nefarious plot to kill somebody, or cover some evidence up, or something like that!) so it is something OSHA would be looking into, not so much the EPA.
Dav8or
Final Approach
Wrong. Ralph Nader had nothing to do with the Beetle being withdrawn from America. The cause was, it was becoming increasingly impossible to get the car to meet Federal crash and emission standards. With sales starting to decline (they were down to only 30,000 units a year), VW wisely pulled the plug in the US market and also in Europe as well. Of course they continued to be built in other parts of the world with laxer standards for quite a long time, with the last country being Mexico when all production ended in 2003.
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Drake the Outlaw
Who do you think was one of the primary figures pushing better crash safety regulations? Not that they were bad, but Nader as at the forefront of driving those regulations.
Tom-D
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It's on the placard at the memorial in Texas City.
Dav8or
Final Approach
Well, indirectly on a tangent I guess Nader could be blamed for the Beetle's demise, but in fact it had more to be with the fact that the world had had it's fill of that car and people moved on. Nader started ranting in 1963 and the Beetle survived to 1980 here. Pretty good for a car that was conceived and largely engineered in the 1930s.
The car could have been re-engineered to comply with today's standards if it were thought to be highly popular and profitable, but the demand was just not there. I mean hey, I'm pretty sure the 1950's Beetle would likely pass the roll over standards of today!
The current Beetle is only possible because it shares it's underpinnings and engineering with the current Golf. The only thing in common with the original Beetle is four wheels, two doors and the rudimentary shape. Even so, it's current sales are not exactly blistering.
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Drake the Outlaw
Industry DOES police its own. Nobody with money (read: Large Corporations) wants the liability of doing things the wrong way.
The thing I find funny (?) about the China explosion is the first thing the Chinese did was detain officials from the responsible party.
Technically Grandcamp wasn't ANFO as the FO (fuel oil) wasn't there, had it been ANFO it would have likely been a bigger explosion than Hiroshima.
Really? How do you think the BP blowout happened? By trying to save 12 hrs on bringing the well into production and short cutting the cement job by orders of the BP company man and to the objections of the driller. The guys on the rig capitulated and did what they knew was wrong at BP's insistence. Seen stuff like that frequently when I worked offshore. Everybody afraid to lose money.
For the most part, the niche the beetle filled was occupied by the then cheap japanese imports. Since the 60s, VW has always produced somewhere close to the market where they sell. They had joint-ventures in China, plants in brasil, Argentina and Mexico. 2 years ago, they opened a plant in Chattanooga, TN to service the US market with vehicles designed ot sell here.
The 'New Beetle' pictured in the explosion aftermath is just a cutesy body variant built on a standard VW compact platform. Has nothing to do with the rear-engine air cooled beetle. The small VWs are not half bad, I have a Jetta that is somewhere between 190 and 200k. Had to replace some parts in the past year (EGT valve, cooling fans, alternator clutch pulley), with a toolbox full of Torx bits and an extra joint on your arm, you can fix things.
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Drake the Outlaw
One well blowout in the last XX years does not condemn "industry".
And you're right. Everyone IS afraid to lose money. Don't you think BP would have been much happier with a delay rather than the billions in reparations and penalties they are ultimately going to pay?
On the other hand, there is no doubt that individuals occasionally do things the overall corporation wouldn't approve of, but again, that isn't a condemnation of industry..
\
BP is just shifting the income stream to pay for the penalties...
Funny how oil is at it cheapest in 7 years and by shear accident their huge gasoline refinery in Ill ( it supplies about all gas stations east of the Mississippi).. just broke down.... Now gas prices are going up .50 cents while crude is dropping like a rock....
It is a giant shell game and the consumers are getting it in the a$$..
Nope, you are wrong again. The Hiroshima blast was equivalent to 12 to 15 kilotons of TNT.
The Texas City blast involved 2300 tons of ammonium nitrate.
The Minor Scale test exploded 4.8 kilotons on ANFO, more than twice the The material that blew up in the Texas City blast, and this was equivalent to 4 kilotons of TNT. Over twice the material, ANFO, and still far short of the Hiroshima explosion.
This is how 1-2 kilotons in a silo 100ft diameter silo extending 12ft into the ground look like:
What I always found interesting is how quickly the destructive effect from the explosion itself tapers off. In the foreground you have a 50ft deep crater but a couple 100 feet away the brick smokestacks are still intact.
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BP is just shifting the income stream to pay for the penalties...
Funny how oil is at it cheapest in 7 years and by shear accident their huge gasoline refinery in Ill ( it supplies about all gas stations east of the Mississippi).. just broke down.... Now gas prices are going up .50 cents while crude is dropping like a rock....
It is a giant shell game and the consumers are getting it in the a$$..
I work for a very large corporation. There is no way something like that could be done and covered up successfully. When you got ratted out oil prices would be the least of your worries.
Needless to say, I'm not a conspiracy theory guy...
Doggtyred
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So....
Explain to us the massive pollution the EPA caused last week in Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada and eventually California....
Ps... The EPA is NOT industry,,, They are the guvmint...
I do believe they were cleaning up a mess originally created by private industry....
Crazy.
Tom-D
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The EPA was informed there was a circus, they did nothing, but could have prevented it. instead they opened the port hole that allowed the spill, and has done nothing to stop it.
Doggtyred
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I'm gonna call bull**** on the 150 miles. They might have FELT the shockwave 150 miles away, but no parts made it that far. One ship's anchor landed a mile away.
Interesting trivia. I took care of an old one legged man in the ICU one night a few years back. I asked him how he lost his leg... He said he was a longshoreman, who was working that dock that day, and was walking away from the ship at a distance when it blew. Shrapnel took his leg off. Killed the guy standing next to him.
Tom-D
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Our Neighbor when I was a kid was a merchant marine who was on his way to man one of those ships, I forget which one.
I've read the 150 mile parts thing, I'm looking.
Right, they are doing nothing. Nothing at all.
Attachments
denverpilot
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So....
Explain to us the massive pollution the EPA caused last week in Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Nevada and eventually California....
Ps... The EPA is NOT industry,,, They are the guvmint...
It's way blown out of proportion. EPA created more pollution flying their G4 here and inviting hundreds of media to drive to Durango than the spill will end up being.
The more interesting part of the spill was EPA saying they'd slap their own wrist. That's stupid. What should happen when agencies like that screw up is the residents of the area should get a tax refund equal to what EPA would have slapped a Corporation with. And it has to come out of EPA's budget, not the General Fund, to have any effect.
Won't happen, but that's the solution to FedGov screwing up.
Impressive. I can't find any family photos of my grandparents choking on black clouds or wearing gas masks. They also never mentioned it. And I knew two great-grandparents and all of my grandparents and not a one ever mentioned it. Must have been so awful they suppressed it. LOL.
Actually BP has long been known as a bottom line company and willing to cut corners. Our own SEC gave us the joy of BP owning way too much of the industry when they wouldn't allow the Texaco/Chevron merger and later ones. The Brits were more than happy to provide the corporations to merge the U.S. companies into.
BP didn't have a "safety culture" when I was in that biz, and no one I talked with after the accident was surprised they had one that big, at all. Most won't say it in public because they either work for them or are afraid they'll have to someday. It isn't a big business and everyone knows everyone once you hit the offices where the traders and the transport folks work.
When times are good, there's independent small companies to work for in that biz. When times are bad, you're darkening the door of BP or Shell, with your hat in your hand.
None of them want a spill or an environmental disaster, but their reasons are different for not wanting them. Locals have to live where they pee. The non-locals just ship the latest manager home and hide him or her somewhere and ship a new one to count the beans.
Enron pulled it off quite successfully...
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Drake the Outlaw
Ending up broke and in jail ain't a success in my world. ;-)
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yeah, I noticed that from the article.
2300 tons of ANFO would have been even bigger. I wonder if the ship's fuel oil had any accelerant property on the AN in the hold?
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
This is how 1-2 kilotons in a silo 100ft diameter silo extending 12ft into the ground look like:
What I always found interesting is how quickly the destructive effect from the explosion itself tapers off. In the foreground you have a 50ft deep crater but a couple 100 feet away the brick smokestacks are still intact.
That's why an air burst is preferred for big noisemakers. The shock wave can spread out at ground level instead of being directed up from the crater.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
overdrive148
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Maybe a little bit bigger, but not that much bigger. Certainly no where near a Hiroshima size blast. As for the ship's fuel, probably it enhanced the effects some, but not as much as one might expect since they weren't mixed together.
Or Union Carbide..... Bopal India comes to mind....
Originally Posted by N801BH 
NOPE.....
And they sure as hell won't say what material actually blew up either...
Jay wrote:
"China Evacuates Tianjin Blast Site As Sodium Cyanide Found http://n.pr/1TE5PvY"
Hey Henning. ya got a link to China's initial disclosure of chemicals released?
NOPE.....
And they sure as hell won't say what material actually blew up either...
Jay wrote:
"China Evacuates Tianjin Blast Site As Sodium Cyanide Found http://n.pr/1TE5PvY"
Hey Henning. ya got a link to China's initial disclosure of chemicals released?
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_effectiveness_factor
ANFO rated at 42% relative to TNT.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy
15 kiltotons TNT equivalent at Hiroshima.
15,000 tons TNT / 0.42 = 36,000 tons ANFO.
2300 tons AN on that ship (assuming same yield as ANFO) would be 16 ships.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
Tianjin is pretty much a manufacturing city isn't it? Any commercial/industrial processes that use large quantities of sodium cyanide?
Metal plating.
Jimmy cooper
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Enron pulled it off quite successfully because ken lay , the ceo , was a big buddy of the bush family, a large contributor to little bush's campaign and a very gifted liar. You may recall he attended Cheneys secret energy meeting. He died on his way to jail. His second in command is still doing time. They screwed their own employees big time. Cost many of them their life savings. Today, the exxon disaster and the BP - Halliburton fiasco will cost this country untold problems and lots more money. The gas prices are rigged. There is a glut of gas and has been for months.
Florida Cracker
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Thre you go.... Jimmmmmyyyyy and Bush derangement syndrome. What would a weekend be without it?
Dav8or
Final Approach
\
BP is just shifting the income stream to pay for the penalties...
Funny how oil is at it cheapest in 7 years and by shear accident their huge gasoline refinery in Ill ( it supplies about all gas stations east of the Mississippi).. just broke down.... Now gas prices are going up .50 cents while crude is dropping like a rock....
It is a giant shell game and the consumers are getting it in the a$$..
Just so you know, part of this problem is the lack of a federal gasoline standard. Many different states have their own formulation standards for gasoline, so the big refiners can't just move gas around the country lie other commodities to cover shortages in certain areas effected by local shut downs.
The oil companies would love to be able to ship one gasoline anywhere. Alas, they can not and so we have to pay higher prices at the pump when there are problems like you mention. It's also party why gas prices are all over the map... all over the map.