Wanting to take down a power pole near an airport

[PilotLevi]

At the airport white man KWHP in California there is a power pole direct off centerline from runway 12 on the departure side. Out of all the airports I have flown in and out this object has to be the closet to the end of the runway. How would I go about making a petition about removing it? Would I send it to the FSDO or the city?

When I make this petition what information must I obtain names addresses and number of people signing it?

Also where can I get more information about the rules and regulations about power poles and objects near airports?

 

[Brad Z]

Your first contact should be airport management. It is their responsibility to keep their approaches clear. For more information about obstruction standards, google "Part 77 surface areas".

FWIW, petitions are generally useless. Convincing folks to write letters to the city is more effective. Before doing anything, check in with management and figure out where the sticking point is.

 

[N801BH]

At the airport white man KWHP in California there is a power pole direct off centerline from runway 12 on the departure side. Out of all the airports I have flown in and out this object has to be the closet to the end of the runway. How would I go about making a petition about removing it? Would I send it to the FSDO or the city?

When I make this petition what information must I obtain names addresses and number of people signing it?

Also where can I get more information about the rules and regulations about power poles and objects near airports?

First... Welcome to POA.:wink2:

As for the power pole.... It usually takes a collision and 3.2 fatalities before the guvmint reacts... Don't be the fatality part.

 

[Mafoo]

Being all the constructive options have been given....

 

[Ghery]

Being all the constructive options have been given....

I like the way you think.

 

[SteveR]

First, find out if the pole actually violates and rules. If not, your petition will only be effective if it includes a significant check. The power company will gladly bury power lines for a fee. Without knowing which line or pole you are talking about, I'd guess that it would cost a minimum of $10k to $20k.

Can you send us a link to a view of the pole in google street view?

There are significant displaced thresholds at KWHP, and I don't see any poles significantly higher than other nearby structures, but maybe I'm looking at old pictures on google. Just a guess, but I'd say your efforts will be completely ineffective if they are not violating any rules and you aren't willing to write a check.

 

[Pi1otguy]

To some extent, quite a few socal airports have obsticles nearby. For some time Fulerton (KFUL) had a radio tower nearby belonging to a popular talk station. Pilots claimed it was a hazard years before until it finally came down. I remember listening to that station when suddenly it cut out and then found out that hours later learning someone struck it.

They have since rebuilt the tower in the same spot (684 feet instead of 760 feet tall) just 2 miles from KFUL and in the few times I've flown the area I have yet to spot this against the urban landscape and haze.

In the end, if the power company believes it's an important line, I doubt it will be taken down. Even if someone hits it they'll probably rebuild it a foot shorter.

 

[Kelvin]

We had the same situation here at a private airport....the power company came in long after the airport was built and ran lines down the other side of the road.

The owner requested that the power company bury about 100-15-' of lines and they refused. He got a Congressman to call and "ask" and the lines were buried within two weeks at no charge.

The power company guys are guests at all of the fly ins these days...

Thats one way of handling it...I think the idea of ascertaining if the pole breaks any regs would be a very important piece of information to possess.

 

[bflynn]

Yeah, I'm not seeing anything either that sticks up much more than the rooftops. If you're low enough to be worried about hitting them, there are different issues.

I can't see anyone getting up in arms over it. The only hope I could see is that with the advent of risk management at companies, they have come to view risks as costs that can be avoided. If you addressed a valid concern to their risk management department, you might get them to move for the purpose of avoiding future liability. If there is ever a future accident caused by the pole you point out and it comes out that someone complained about it and they did nothing...bad news for them.

Then again, like I said above, I can't figure out which pole you might be talking about. There's nothing abnormal in line with the runway.

 

[Geico266]

First, find out if the pole actually violates and rules. If not, your petition will only be effective if it includes a significant check. The power company will gladly bury power lines for a fee. Without knowing which line or pole you are talking about, I'd guess that it would cost a minimum of $10k to $20k.

Can you send us a link to a view of the pole in google street view?

There are significant displaced thresholds at KWHP, and I don't see any poles significantly higher than other nearby structures, but maybe I'm looking at old pictures on google. Just a guess, but I'd say your efforts will be completely ineffective if they are not violating any rules and you aren't willing to write a check.

We're talking Kalifornia. It will take $4.3 million just to study it.

 

[timwinters]

Then again, like I said above, I can't figure out which pole you might be talking about. There's nothing abnormal in line with the runway.

Are you making a bold assumption that it hasn't been installed since google earth or maps was last updated?

 

[pmanton]

Too bad my memory isn't better. I took my Pvt check ride from Whiteman in 1955. I'll bet it was there then. I sure remember power lines.

 

[RJM62]

Being all the constructive options have been given....

Reminds me of a time...

There was a place I used to live that had a long stretch of street with many intersections and no stop signs in that direction. There were stop signs on the cross streets, but not facing the street in question.

The other problem was that you could see the traffic light at the end of the street for quite a ways before you actually got to it, so drivers would drive at break-neck speeds to make the green light, causing many accidents over the years that I lived there.

Petitions to get a speed bump or two installed never resulted in any action, so one night, my friends and I a group of enterprising people detoured the traffic and installed speed bumps that we they had paid for by passing the hat around the neighborhood.

The first few night made for some interesting cuss words flying out the windows of the passing cars and trucks as they flew over the bumps, because there were no warning signs. But surprisingly, the city came around and installed signs a few weeks later. I guess they thought the bumps had been installed by DOT but not properly documented.

When I moved, the speed bumps were still there. I guess we they did a pretty good job installing them.

-Rich

 

[Mafoo]

Reminds me of a time...

There was a place I used to live that had a long stretch of street with many intersections and no stop signs in that direction. There were stop signs on the cross streets, but not facing the street in question.

The other problem was that you could see the traffic light at the end of the street for quite a ways before you actually got to it, so drivers would drive at break-neck speeds to make the green light, causing many accidents over the years that I lived there.

Petitions to get a speed bump or two installed never resulted in any action, so one night, my friends and I a group of enterprising people detoured the traffic and installed speed bumps that we they had paid for by passing the hat around the neighborhood.

The first few night made for some interesting cuss words flying out the windows of the passing cars and trucks as they flew over the bumps, because there were no warning signs. But surprisingly, the city came around and installed signs a few weeks later. I guess they thought the bumps had been installed by DOT but not properly documented.

When I moved, the speed bumps were still there. I guess we they did a pretty good job installing them.

-Rich

In the post about why the aviation population is declining, someone said it's because we have become a nation of watchers, and not doers.

This is a good example of someone doing something, that today is less likely to happen.

When I was younger, I lived in Texas, on a public road, but it was a dirt road. The road just had 5 farms on it, and then dead ended on our property.

We all had horses, and fairly heavy equipment that would drive down the road, so it would get chewed up pretty quickly. The county would come grade it for us a few times a year, but that wasn't enough.

So, we all got together, pitched in a few bucks, and paved the road. I don't think any of the farm owners even thought about asking the city to do it, or for there permission. No one but us would use it, and no one but us would care that it got paved.

So we did it, and that was that. Today I suspect things would go a little differently.

P.S. To the OP, I am not suggesting to just go and move the power line

 

[flyingron]

Did you talk to the airport board. Evidentally there's some FAA study going on with the buildings and their possible intrusion into the clear area.

 

[flyingron]

The FAA record says the pole is 200' from the end of the runway at 30' (10' off the centerline).

That's not even in a 1:30 plane.

There are substantial displaced thresholds on both sides.

 

[denverpilot]

To some extent, quite a few socal airports have obsticles nearby. For some time Fulerton (KFUL) had a radio tower nearby belonging to a popular talk station. Pilots claimed it was a hazard years before until it finally came down. I remember listening to that station when suddenly it cut out and then found out that hours later learning someone struck it.

They have since rebuilt the tower in the same spot (684 feet instead of 760 feet tall) just 2 miles from KFUL and in the few times I've flown the area I have yet to spot this against the urban landscape and haze.

In the end, if the power company believes it's an important line, I doubt it will be taken down. Even if someone hits it they'll probably rebuild it a foot shorter.

Power lines are not transmission towers and can be buried. Non-sequitur.

 

[bflynn]

Are you making a bold assumption that it hasn't been installed since google earth or maps was last updated?

Well, the image is stamped July 2011, so it isn't really a bold assumption. But yes, it could have been put up in the past 16 months.

I've taken a second look and the only thing I can see is a street light that is 300' to the right of runway 12, about 500' down from the edge of the displaced threshold. But that street light is still at least 10' shorter than the power lines on the other side of the street and much shorter than the control tower that is 1200' down the runway.

Again, if that street light is in play, there are different issues.

 

[Stevel]

Just playing around with the possibilities if there were a new pole installed.

Power poles are usually about 35' tall and are planted near the curb. The two curbs of Osborne Street are about 550' and 650' from the displaced threshold. This gives a 3.6 degree slope from the threshold to the top of a pole on the near side of the street, or 3 degrees to the top of a pole on the far side of the street.

I'm guessing that most of us would not be too worried aboout that with the 4120' runway.

 

[pilotod]

I thought you might be Native American and referring to a pole built by a white man....maybe a totem pole.

 

[ChrisK]

If it helps (or hurts), I was told a story about my home field. Once upon a time, there was a power line that crossed just shy of the approach end of runway 3 (photo attached - thanks Google Earth!).

I was told that an aircraft got tangled up on the power lines (with no one injured). The airport owner assisted in rescuing the pilot and passenger, disentangled the aircraft, and called the electric company. Said electric company demanded reimbursement from the airport owner for their time in fixing the damage to the lines, and insisted that the airport owner additionally pay to bury the lines as they cross the approach end.

The airport owner (as I was told the story) refused to pay anything, and informed the power company that aircraft would continue to entangle themselves on approach until the power company decided they were sick of repairing the damaged lines.

The power company relented and buried the lines at their expense with no additional comment. Guess they realized that they'd be on the hook (pun intended) for fixing the lines every time an aircraft was a little low on approach, and did the math.

 

[flyingron]

Those Marylanders who go back far enough can remember the old 1W2 Baltimore Airpark. Coming into land there you made sure you cleared the trees and powerlines on the south side of I-95, dodged around the trees in the median strip and then landed. People had been trying to get those trees cut for a while.

I was actually in the local Volunteer fire department there when a plane crashed into the trees in the median strip. Of course, I knew exactly how that could have happened. Shortly, thereafter they finally cut the trees down. Of course, they subsequently solved the safety issue entirely by building houses on top of the runway.

I guess if you want fast action, you should have someone crash into them.