Wake Turbulence, .. too real.

mmilano

mmilano

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Mike Milano
Up until now, I've only studied how to avoid wake turbulence, I never experienced it.

Last night I finished up the last of my requirements for night flying with 10 landings and also finished up my hood work.

We were cleared #2 to land behind a beech jet. My CFI mentioned wake turbulence so we did stay a little high.

Then, we were on short final for runway 24 and suddenly got rolled left about 50 degrees. My first thought was that my CFI was doing some weird test on me, but when I heard him say wooah, It made sense.

I corrected and landed un-eventfully, but that was a great lesson. You can bet from now on I am going to be WAY more cautious behind jets. Nothing written down or people telliing you expresses the danger like being in the situation yourself.
 
 
I lived with wake turbulence constantly at Scottsdale, where every third or fourth plane was a big corporate jet. While I take it seriously, I don't panic any longer.

My worst experience was my first cross-country solo as a student. I was told to follow the 737 in on five mile final (sheesh, was that long). I started rocking and rolling early in the descent, realized what the issue was and flattened my descent for 10 seconds or so, then glided down with no issues.

Recognize it fast and deal with it is the best way to stay right-side up!
 
mmilano said:
Up until now, I've only studied how to avoid wake turbulence, I never experienced it.

Last night I finished up the last of my requirements for night flying with 10 landings and also finished up my hood work.

We were cleared #2 to land behind a beech jet. My CFI mentioned wake turbulence so we did stay a little high.

Then, we were on short final for runway 24 and suddenly got rolled left about 50 degrees. My first thought was that my CFI was doing some weird test on me, but when I heard him say wooah, It made sense.

I corrected and landed un-eventfully, but that was a great lesson. You can bet from now on I am going to be WAY more cautious behind jets. Nothing written down or people telliing you expresses the danger like being in the situation yourself.
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This was CFI error. Your CFI limited himself to being nothing more than a nuisance warning. He should have not let you fly into wake turb--short final is no place for instruction on wake turb.

Too, who needs to be whacked by a hammer before they begin to believe what they read about the injury caused by being whacked by a hammer? You got whacked probably because you didn't really believe what you had read. What part of avoid did you not understand (or was not taught)?

I don't want to experience recovering from an unexpected 50* roll on short final. It's great that you did recover but please consider that one day there may not be a next time for you to practice such skills.
 
Always fun landing behind a 777 at BWI. Most of the time, I only have to land behind the little G5s or Falcons.
 
lancefisher said:
Pretty awesome except that I see no wake in the third photo, just vapor trails from the engines.
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It shows nicely formed with the contrail of the outboard port engine.

mmilano said:
Up until now, I've only studied how to avoid wake turbulence, I never experienced it.

Last night I finished up the last of my requirements for night flying with 10 landings and also finished up my hood work.

We were cleared #2 to land behind a beech jet. My CFI mentioned wake turbulence so we did stay a little high.

Then, we were on short final for runway 24 and suddenly got rolled left about 50 degrees. My first thought was that my CFI was doing some weird test on me, but when I heard him say wooah, It made sense.

I corrected and landed un-eventfully, but that was a great lesson. You can bet from now on I am going to be WAY more cautious behind jets. Nothing written down or people telliing you expresses the danger like being in the situation yourself.
Click to expand...

Always visualize, correcting for variable wind drift and avoid the location of the wake vortex for the entire flight path in question and be current on your low level spin recovery techniques in case you're wrong.

If in lieu of academics, if you actually need to experience in flight or see >200KT winds to appreciate their significance as a PIC in our leetle aeroplanes then if you keep flying there's a good chance you will get that very undesireable experience.
 
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the third photo looks like a couple of big waves in the ocean about to crash over toward the center.
 
mmilano said:
the third photo looks like a couple of big waves in the ocean about to crash over toward the center.
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That is exactly what is going on. As that third photo graphically shows, the wings are pushing a huge swath of air downward, and undisplaced air at the edges of the swath cascades inward and downward to fill the void. The engines aren't doing this; the contrails just make the motion of the wings' wake visible.

Look at this one:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/569626/L/

-- Pilawt
 
I found that a Caravan gives off a lot more wake turbulence then you would think. We always land and takeoff right after each other...and it surprises you the first time!!
 
citationxjl said:
I found that a Caravan gives off a lot more wake turbulence then you would think. We always land and takeoff right after each other...and it surprises you the first time!!
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So perception is not reality? The 208 is a heavy lifter.......

I've seen Caravans at nearly full gross climb out at what must be close to Vx in a C-172. If I could I would (own one)
 
citationxjl said:
I found that a Caravan gives off a lot more wake turbulence then you would think. We always land and takeoff right after each other...and it surprises you the first time!!
Click to expand...

Yup...I've been rolled 60 degrees in my Maule flying in trail of a Piper Pacer...

Hazardous wake turbulence isn't limited to jets!

Fly safe!

David
 
lancefisher said:
Pretty awesome except that I see no wake in the third photo, just vapor trails from the engines.
Click to expand...

You mean the 747? The one where 4 contrails get folded into 2? Where the contrail on the #1 (left outboard) engine shows a definite clockwise curl? That one?:rofl:
 
When we were in New Zealand a couple of months ago, there was an accident in which a Cessna 182 (IIRC) was severely damaged. The concensus was that it was because of wake turbulence from a preceding C-182. My wife saw the damaged C-182 in Dunedin, and said it wasn't pretty. As David said, hazardous wake turbulence isn't limited only to jets.
 
gprellwitz said:
The concensus was that it was because of wake turbulence from a preceding C-182.
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???
I have flown through my own wake in dirty, slow a/c weighing up to 10K lbs and could not categorize it as more than 'light'.
I have to wonder about that assessment. Not saying its wrong but there is evidence to counter that possibility.
 
gprellwitz said:
When we were in New Zealand a couple of months ago, there was an accident in which a Cessna 182 (IIRC) was severely damaged. The concensus was that it was because of wake turbulence from a preceding C-182. My wife saw the damaged C-182 in Dunedin, and said it wasn't pretty. As David said, hazardous wake turbulence isn't limited only to jets.
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That's sure hard to believe but I suppose not impossible.
We fly through our own wakes often and it's just a little tiny bump.
What'd the wrecked plane drag a wing on the RWY or something else ?
 
Flying through your own wake, ie, practicing steep turns, is different than wake turb from a preceeding a/c. One difference is you are crossing the wake at an angle as opposed to being aligned with the direction of the wake therefore being more susceptable to uncontrolled roll.
 
Richard said:
Flying through your own wake, ie, practicing steep turns, is different than wake turb from a preceeding a/c. One difference is you are crossing the wake at an angle as opposed to being aligned with the direction of the wake therefore being more susceptable to uncontrolled roll.
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You're also probably not flying slow enough to create the biggest wake you can. That said, I've flown in the wake of planes that are likely to have a similar wake to a 182 when practicing formation flying and while you do get bounced around a bit, it's way less than enough to tip you over.
 
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