VOR confusion preparing for test

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topdog91

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topdog91
I thought I was doing well, but... See this VOR

The question: The VOR receiver has the indications shown. What radial is the aircraft crossing? I naively thought 210, because I thought if the needle is centred, that I must be on the radial marked with the OBS (210 in this case).

But apparently in this case, it's 30, because I'm "crossing the 210° inbound bearing, but with a TO indication it is the 030° radial". Can somebody explain what I'm missing?
 
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Okay, I got it, whenever the TO indicator is lit, the heading and radial being flown are reciprocals. What a delightful invention. ;)
 
Look at it in plan view on a sectional. Mark the location of your airplane. Then it'll make sense.
 
yes, some of those questions didn't seem as straightforward as real world to/from orientations.
 
dtuuri said:
This is NOT a true statement.

dtuuri
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*Sigh* I looked again in my notes, and it says "When flying directly TO a station, the heading flown and the radial flown will be reciprocals". Which I guess is not the same as what I said?

First 9 chapters of Gleim, averaged 90% without too much bother - this VOR stuff is *killing* me, 50% on the chapter test, and I'm a geek, I thought it would be much simpler to get.
 
topperdoggle said:
*Sigh* I looked again in my notes, and it says "When flying directly TO a station, the heading flown and the radial flown will be reciprocals". Which I guess is not the same as what I said?
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Right, that's not what you said. Let me ask you this, "What would change in your statement for the situation where you make a 180?"

dtuuri
 
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It's not about learning the CDI. It's about spacial orientation.

Here's an example. This plane is on the 150 radial initially even though the CDI indicates 330 and TO.

Then once it crosses the VOR it's on the 330 radial.

VOR05.gif


http://www.aeronautico.net/images/VOR05.gif
 
When a "to" indicator is displayed and the needle is centered, the OBS tells you what your ground track would need to be in order to fly directly to the VOR. When a "from" indicator is displayed and the needle is centered, the OBS tells you what your ground track would need to be in order to fly directly away from the VOR.

(Note that your ground track will be different from your heading if there is a crosswind.)
 
Okay people, 95% second time round, I think the penny dropped. Thanks for the support, I must remember to stay calm and remember it's not rocket science. :D
 
topperdoggle said:
Okay people, 95% second time round, I think the penny dropped. Thanks for the support, I must remember to stay calm and remember it's not rocket science. :D
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And after you get your license you can forget it completely, IMHO. Using VORs when flying now is a kin to using a dial telephone. :rolleyes2:

VOR clingers will be along shortly proclaiming its virtues, and we must know how to use VORs because the GPS system will fail some day! :rolleyes:

Technology is evolving with better and much more accurate position reporting for both location and altitude. Learn the GPS system and how to use it to your full advantage for real world flying.

Good luck with your studies, but don't get too hung up on learning the VOR system. It's pretty much useless IMHO.
 
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Geico266 said:
And after you get your license you can forget it completely, IMHO. Using VORs when flying now is a kin to using a dial telephone. :rolleyes2:

VOR clingers will be along shortly proclaiming its virtues, and we must know how to use VORs because the GPS system will fail some day! :rolleyes:

Technology is evolving with better and much more accurate position reporting for both location and altitude. Learn the GPS system and how to use it to your full advantage for real world flying.

Good luck with your studies, but don't get too hung up on learning the VOR system. It's pretty much useless IMHO.
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Yeah, its pretty much on its way out. Its a pretty good excercise in orientation and situational awareness though. The thinking OP went through to use VOR to figure out where he was and how to go somewhere else without just seeing a dot and a line on a map may come in handy someday. Not so much about if the GPS fails, but if things start getting weird because a wrong button got pushed, he entered something incorrectly, etc. Having the skill to be able to "have the picture" in your head and not just follow the picture on the screen can be a good thing.
 
bnt83 said:
My favorite VOR navigation reference ever. You can use two VORs and fly to any intersection basically like a GPS if you know how and in range altitude etc.. Worth a read.


http://www.sarangan.org/aviation/articles/vor-article.pdf
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Not quite like a GPS because you can't (easily) navigate a course direct to the intersection, but you will get there. His way of teaching how to interpret VOR indications is essentially the same as Cap'n Ron's.
 
Geico266 said:
And after you get your license you can forget it completely, IMHO. Using VORs when flying now is a kin to using a dial telephone. :rolleyes2:

VOR clingers will be along shortly proclaiming its virtues, and we must know how to use VORs because the GPS system will fail some day! :rolleyes:

Technology is evolving with better and much more accurate position reporting for both location and altitude. Learn the GPS system and how to use it to your full advantage for real world flying.

Good luck with your studies, but don't get too hung up on learning the VOR system. It's pretty much useless IMHO.
Click to expand...

I take it the military doesn't run GPS interference tests where you fly.

Also, there are still quite a few rental planes without an IFR GPS installed, and those that have one don't always have a current database.
 
Geico266 said:
VOR clingers will be along shortly proclaiming its virtues, and we must know how to use VORs because the GPS system will fail some day! :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

GPS "failure" happens quite frequently out here near White Sands/Holloman when they decide to degrade or eliminate it's performance.

If our own people can block it, you can bet your buns that the other guys know how to do it.

I've flown in airplanes that had VOR receivers that are probably just as old as the VOR system itself. They still work. Gotta marvel in the simplicity yet complexity of it.

Edit to add: Richard beat me to it!!
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Play around with this website, OP.

http://luizmonteiro.com/Learning_VOR_Sim.aspx
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Beat me to it.


Great site for letting PPL students and IFR guys play with VORs and OBS.


Geico266 said:
VOR clingers will be along shortly proclaiming its virtues, and we must know how to use VORs because the GPS system will fail some day! :rolleyes:

Technology is evolving with better and much more accurate position reporting for both location and altitude. Learn the GPS system and how to use it to your full advantage for real world flying.

Good luck with your studies, but don't get too hung up on learning the VOR system. It's pretty much useless IMHO.
Click to expand...


Yeah.... you must be new to GPS :lol:

I've had issues with it before, be it onboard or external, there is a reason most working IFR aircraft don't just have GPS. I wouldn't go into actual or do any long range IMC work with just GPS onboard.
 
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There is an app I used to play with called Nav Trainer basic, helped a lot to see what was going on
 
The thing that us old birds mumble about - while you wet nosed kids laugh at us behind our backs - is we know that the wonderful world of electronic automation of navigation and flight (and it is wonderful) that we have today can disappear in a single flash; be that lightning, meteor, or nuke, or just the magic smoke suddenly leaking out of your panel.
The odds are very small it will happen to you - but it is 100% for those in flight when it happens.
Having an old chart under your seat and some basic practice at navigating by the basics will likely make the difference between a good story to tell the guys back at the airport and being the story.
Needle ball and whiskey compass do not need power or satellites or a recent update. They work no matter what. If you kept track of where you are as you followed the magenta line and you have that old chart, you are in fat city even if you are in the clag :wink2:
 
dmspilot said:
I wish that was a joke but can believe you're serious. :yikes:
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He's serious and he (and Van Johnston) are correct. Radials only come FROM the station. The fact you can dial up an OBS setting when you are on the opposite side of the VOR from the radial doesn't change that.
 
The ONE thing you need to get out of your thoughts is "heading."

VOR radials show a line of "position," regardless of your heading.

Two VOR radials establish your exact position.

It doesn't matter which way your nose is pointing.
 
Following the magenta line on a GPS moving map is a tad easier and far more fun. In fact, let the autopilot do it and free yourself to concentrate on other things. Nav systems like VOR/NDB and LORAN cannot leave the system too soon.
 
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d5by5 said:
Following the magenta line on a GPS moving map is a tad easier and far more fun. In fact, let the autopilot do it and free yourself to concentrate on other things. Nav systems like VOR/NDB and LORAN cannot leave the system too soon.
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Eh? LORAN is also an area navigation system like GPS. Different technology but by and large used the same way (you set waypoints where you want to go).
You can have VOR based area navigation as well (though the user interface is typically clunkier).

The biggest improvement is not the position source but the moving map which takes the a lot of the brainwork out of situational awareness. Eventide and others were doing moving maps long before GPS became practical.
 
luvflyin said:
I was doing an IPC last year and had to explain to the CFI which radial we were really on.
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I just remembered a friend who's an ATC tell me a story about assigning a regional jet to hold east on the 090 radial. He held west on the 270 radial instead. ATC asked him, "what radial do you think you're on?" and he replied, "We are on the 090 degree radial. We're inbound to the VOR now, heading 090."

:mad2:
 
flyingron said:
He's serious and he (and Van Johnston) are correct. Radials only come FROM the station. The fact you can dial up an OBS setting when you are on the opposite side of the VOR from the radial doesn't change that.
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Dude, I was asking if he was joking about CFIs on youtube teaching concepts called "to radial" and "from radial".
 
flyingron said:
Eh? LORAN is also an area navigation system like GPS. Different technology but by and large used the same way (you set waypoints where you want to go).
You can have VOR based area navigation as well (though the user interface is typically clunkier).

The biggest improvement is not the position source but the moving map which takes the a lot of the brainwork out of situational awareness. Eventide and others were doing moving maps long before GPS became practical.
Click to expand...

Huh? LORAN is a ground based radio system that pretty much died back in the early 80s.

Nextgen will supplant all of the radio ground systems.
 
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