Video ruined...

brywd

brywd

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jun 3, 2007
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124
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San Jose, CA
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Display name:
Bryan
On a recent flight I had two GoPro cameras recording video as well the audio for a youtube effort. When I got home I realized that I had a choice to make regarding whether to use the video or delete it because it captured the pilots of two airplanes behaving badly. The video is long gone and I have already recorded over it, but it effectively caught a skydiving plane climbing VFR up through a solid cloud layer, dropping jumpers back down through the same layer, and then descending again VFR through the clouds. After descending through the layer the pilot of the jump plane proceeded to lecture the pilot of a Cessna that had flown through the drop zone as an added bonus.

There are just so many angles to this that I thought it would be a good thread to kick around. Examples:

1. Obligations to report vs. not getting involved
2. Purpose of my flight effectively ruined vs. trashing the other pilots
3. Skydiving operations, (drop zones) situational awareness for pilots
4. increased chances of bad behavior being recorded these days
5. ???
6. ???
 
Obviously, the jump plane pilot is in the wrong, but I never delete video myself. Certain things (like what your describing) may determine whether or not I upload the video to YouTube, and whether or not I make the video publicly viewable/searchable on YouTube.

There's plenty of video on the internet of certified pilots, skydivers, ultralight pilots, etc, doing stupid and illegal things.

Why they're willing to put video of it up is beyond me.
 
Lodi? They took off into me and then got on the radio and suggested that I divert (I was on base to final).
 
I would have saved the video. 1 TB is below $50 now, and you never know when those guys are going to be really bad boys, endangering, and you'll need the FSDO. Seriously.

If they don't endanger anybody, I tend to say it's "THEIR" problem. But the the minute they cause a BIG problem, it becomes necessary to show a pattern of behavior.....nothing like a 5TB memory.
 
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There's no excuse for this. If the jump zone is reckless enough to do this, they're most likely doing other things unsafe for air commerce as well (though this is bad enough in my opinion). i'd have it on YouTube and a phone call to the FSDO.
 
We banned them from our local airport for a number of years. They are back now using the feds to force the manager to let them operate.
They really stink up an airport.
 
Dr. O said:
We banned them from our local airport for a number of years. They are back now using the feds to force the manager to let them operate.
They really stink up an airport.
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Then document their misbehaviors (with video, if possible) and turn that over to those Feds for action.
 
I am not condemning all jump operations. The one at my field,LHM, gets along great with the pilot community and I am not aware of any issues.
 
The drop zone at WVI is excellent. Their pilots act and sound like pros, play very well with others and are very easy to work with.
 
Agree with never deleting a video. If it was not too long ago you still may be able to recover it.

At my home airport we do not have any jumpers but there is a grass strip about 10 miles away and they are very considerate. Before we had a tower they would announce on both CTAF, and call ATC, before jumping, now with the tower they coordinate with the tower(class D). They do this initially at 1000 agl and before dropping the jumpers.

For me I give them wide berth whenever I hear them announcing, because I do not want to see one of the jumpers anywhere near my plane.

One question though. I use GoPro all the time, and am trying to figure out how close you were to them to be able to video it so clearly.

Doug
 
douglas393 said:
Agree with never deleting a video. If it was not too long ago you still may be able to recover it.

At my home airport we do not have any jumpers but there is a grass strip about 10 miles away and they are very considerate. Before we had a tower they would announce on both CTAF, and call ATC, before jumping, now with the tower they coordinate with the tower(class D). They do this initially at 1000 agl and before dropping the jumpers.

For me I give them wide berth whenever I hear them announcing, because I do not want to see one of the jumpers anywhere near my plane.

One question though. I use GoPro all the time, and am trying to figure out how close you were to them to be able to video it so clearly.

Doug
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The video is probably in the recycle bin on my computer. I'm going to check when I get home later.

As for how close I was... I heard the jump plane take off while I was in the pattern landing. I fueled the plane and was on my way to the runup area when I heard jumpers away at 12000'. The jump zone is 1 mile from the runway on the opposite side as the traffic pattern and I was facing in such a way that they descended in the center of my windscreen. The GoPro clearly shows a solid layer over head with its wide angle lens, and AWOS was reporting ceilings at 8500'. Two canopies popped open but well under the layer, I'm guessing 2000-3000' but I really don't know. Once the jumpers in were view I departed and while climbing out the Pilot of the jump plane was apparently under the deck at this point and explaining to the Cessna pilot how they wanted to maintain a safe environment and got him to apologize.

Edit... The camera didn't record video of the jump plane ascending or descending thru the clouds, but it did record the audio of the pilot reporting altitude which could only bring me to the conclusion that it indeed happened. Noteworthy I guess is that I only viewed this on my editing software in a small window. It was shot hi res so who knows if the infractions would be obvious on a large screen. Again my goal isn't to be the sky police here. As you stated you are also using GoPro cameras. People should be aware that this activity of making movies is so common these days.
 
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Hmm..You sure that's what happened. Perhaps I just deal with better people but there is no way in hell the guys I've flown would want to climb through a solid layer then jump through it.

There are times that we're fighting to find holes to get above a layer and then we're loitering over top the airport trying to time it perfectly to where a hole is over the drop zone.
 
jesse said:
Hmm..You sure that's what happened. Perhaps I just deal with better people but there is no way in hell the guys I've flown would want to climb through a solid layer then jump through it.

There are times that we're fighting to find holes to get above a layer and then we're loitering over top the airport trying to time it perfectly to where a hole is over the drop zone.
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It is nice to have the input of a pilot who does this for a living. My guess as with many things in life there are those who are cautious, and those who are not. Jesse you are definitely one of the former.

Doug
 
jesse said:
Hmm..You sure that's what happened. Perhaps I just deal with better people but there is no way in hell the guys I've flown would want to climb through a solid layer then jump through it.

There are times that we're fighting to find holes to get above a layer and then we're loitering over top the airport trying to time it perfectly to where a hole is over the drop zone.
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Absolutely positive!
 
brywd said:
Absolutely positive!
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Then I would be talking to the FSDO. They're taking unacceptable risks placing their own lives and the lives of those operating legitimately in the IFR system at risk.
 
This crap scares me. I remember somewhere a video take by a jumper where he takes a part of the empennage of an airplane which subsequently crashes.
 
brywd said:
Absolutely positive!
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So there is no way that jump plane could have been on an IFR clearance through the cloud layer? (were you monitoring approach or just CTAF?)

Still wouldn't erase the fact he let skydivers out over a cloud layer. But that was an equally bad call on the jumpmaster.
 
In my former skydiving days a few years back, I jumped out of the rear of a CASA jump plane that has a tailgate. You cannot tell until you are already out whether or not you are over clouds and the dropzone. There is no way for jumpers to way to "spot" on that plane. The pilot has to do it for you.

Anyways, I went through enough clouds and nearly ran into another jumper as my canopy was opening. Was close horizontally, but not on top of the guy.

Anyways, my pint is that these pilots can and in fact DO go through clouds and allow jumpers to jumps through clouds which is against the rules/regs so I have no doubt this incident happened.

I knew we were going through holes in the clouds on the way up but was not expecting to go through a solid cloud deck on the way back down.

I doubt any jump plane would be on an IFR clearance on a jump run except for the Mullins King Air for HALO jumps in TN.

David
 
I guess I don't know civil skydiving but back in the day, the jumpmaster would call the shots on position, timing, go/no go etc.

Although admittedly I have never done a free fall jump. I have about 100 static line jumps, mostly from the backs of C 130's.
 
Sac Arrow said:
I guess I don't know civil skydiving but back in the day, the jumpmaster would call the shots on position, timing, go/no go etc.

Although admittedly I have never done a free fall jump. I have about 100 static line jumps, mostly from the backs of C 130's.
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That's how it works where I fly. Before takeoff they tell me the altitude and where they want to get out at and which direction they want the plane going. We also watch ground speeds in the climb.

I get us setup as we discussed and towards the end of the run they ask me for permission to open the door, I give thumbs up, and they pop it and start looking down. They'll give me left/right corrections and they jump when they choose to do so. It's not my fault if they screw this up and end up off airport. This is in a 182.

I know there are drop zones that run larger planes and a light. The pilots turn on a green light when it's time to jump and everyone is expected to go. I've heard horror stories about bad spots at these drop zones.

So it probably depends on type aircraft to some degree. What kind of plane was it?
 
jesse said:
Hmm..You sure that's what happened. Perhaps I just deal with better people but there is no way in hell the guys I've flown would want to climb through a solid layer then jump through it.
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Go to YouTube and search on the string "Skydiving through clouds".

Plenty of vids on there of people (most of them in the USA) deliberately aiming for the clouds.

Plenty of comments on there too of "hey that's illegal/unsafe" that are shouted down "don't be a downer, that's cool" and voted down so they are marked as spam and not shown.

--Carlos V.
 
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