Viable airplane options for low time pilots?

CC268 said:
Mechanical glitches??
Click to expand...

She decided to get hard to start. Couldn't flood and make fuel drip, so carb OH. Cranked good, then hard to start. Changed all plugs, replaced dying Gill battery with Concorde and redid the shower of sparks. Each made short term improvement, the whole thing took most of a year. No problem for the past several years, but it's getting to be time for a new Concorde.

Started working on the doghouse that my engine has instead of baffles. Then I moved back to the South. My Welcome Back gift was a broken link on the carb heat box, the butterfly hinge on one side broke off--found out I suddenly had no climb and no speed. New cable, rebuilt flapper, all new gaskets, and oh, yeah, lookkee at this hole in the muffler . . . Just over double my highest previous annual. This years, though, balanced it out by costing just $850, right where it's always been.

But no problem getting people inside. I've made several lunch / dinner runs with four adults, and not all of them were short or skinny. I also know Mooney owners up to 6' 7", so tall isn't a problem either.

Good luck in your plane search. If you're near Lower Alabama, I'll give you a ride so you can see. All Mooneys through E are short bodies; F through K are mid bodies, 12" longer (6" each to back seat leg room and baggage area); anything from L on are long bodies (additional cowl length for a 6-cyl engine, plus extra baggage space, a total of 23" longer than a short body).
 
Gotcha - yea this one online is a M20F - looks like quite a bit of room for the rear passengers actually. I believe it is fuel injected as well...my grandparents used to live in Alabama so we used to go there quite a bit, but they are no longer there.
 
CC268 said:
Gotcha - yea this one online is a M20F - looks like quite a bit of room for the rear passengers actually. I believe it is fuel injected as well...my grandparents used to live in Alabama so we used to go there quite a bit, but they are no longer there.
Click to expand...
If you're taking a good look at Mooneys, don't forget about www.mooneyspace.com as a resource. Lots of good information and helpful folks there.
 
I still would rather have the Cherokee I think...the Mooney seems like too much plane for me but maybe I am wrong...I would rather play it safe and fly something slower lol
 
When giving rides for Airport Day, my Mooney slows down and flies with 172s without a problem. I set 2300 and pull the throttle back until I'm around 110-120 mph (which is pulled back rather a lot, I generally indicate ~150 mph down low like that).

The plane also flies along nicely with the stall horn buzzing, as long as I keep turns gentle and smooth. Don't do much of this outside of flight reviews, etc., but the Mooney handles it well.

Plus, flying into a headwind of 20+ knots you want all the speed you can muster . . .
 
35K USD is sufficient for a good aircraft, including a well equipped Cherokee 180. The problem is avoiding the bad ones. I would not fixate on the model. Condition is much more important than model. If you know you want 180 HP (I did) consider any plane with that HP. Make sure it's a thorough pre buy. Also keep in mind that the purchase price over time is insignificant. It's everything else that adds up. Good luck!
 
CC268 said:
Hmm alright maybe were better off sticking with the Cherokee 180 (which is what we have been looking at for the most part anyways). If 35k won't get us something that is safe to fly I will just keep renting for now...

Maybe we need to up the budget to 800k for a cirrus?
Click to expand...

CC268 said:
Was simply asking if there were other aircraft we should be looking at other aircraft other than the Cherokee/Mooney/etc and what was appropriate for low time pilots. My dad has done a hell of a lot more research on all this (aircraft ownership, etc) than I have. He is the one doing the shopping as well (I look around from time to time). I just had a few questions/concerns that I figured I would post on here.
Click to expand...

1)35K most certainly can get you something "safe to fly"
2) yes, you should consider other aircraft! I never considered the model I now own (Socata Rallye--Morane Saulnier), but buying was one of the best decisions I made. I didn't buy a make or model; I bought a plane with certain capabilities that had been maintained properly at a price I could afford. I agree that 172s come at a premium (most of the time), especially the ones with 180HP. A 180HP 172 equipped like my Morane (essentially the same capability, would have cost 20K USD more thanI paid for this plane. So focus on condition, not make and model.
3) Anyway, if you look long enough, you might find a 180HP 172 in the 35K USD range in good condition (a bit of a stretch). But a Cherokee, yes I can see that happening if you bide your time.
4) If you really can afford it, bide your time. You'll find your plane. There are good ones out there.
 
James331 said:
The fist one, a engine analyzer would have let me know it was comming and likley bought me enough time to land earlier, preventing some pucker factor and likley less damage to the engine.

Second, no, there would have been no practical way to prevent it.

Still, enough variables as it is, buying a 4 seat "project" is silly when for the same coin you could get a 2 seat gem.
Click to expand...

So the story changed from "don't buy a cheap four seater because the engine will quit like two of mine", to "maybe an engine monitor should have been installed on one and the other was going to go anyway". Got it.

He hasn't been looking at "projects" AFAICT. He's been looking at older airplanes with normal maintenance histories that can be picked through via logbooks and a decent inspection by someone who knows the type(s).

If the engine is going to quit the engine is going to quit. If you want to pay for a new one and that makes you feel better, great. I've seen people buy new that broke multiple times in the first few years they owned them, and buy what seemed like dogs that ran and flew great for years.

It's more about a reasonable inspection, having a sense of what you'll be flying over (off airport landing options or not), and whether you can afford to replace the engine tomorrow, when buying any single.
 
denverpilot said:
So the story changed from "don't buy a cheap four seater because the engine will quit like two of mine", to "maybe an engine monitor should have been installed on one and the other was going to go anyway". Got it.

He hasn't been looking at "projects" AFAICT. He's been looking at older airplanes with normal maintenance histories that can be picked through via logbooks and a decent inspection by someone who knows the type(s).

If the engine is going to quit the engine is going to quit. If you want to pay for a new one and that makes you feel better, great. I've seen people buy new that broke multiple times in the first few years they owned them, and buy what seemed like dogs that ran and flew great for years.

It's more about a reasonable inspection, having a sense of what you'll be flying over (off airport landing options or not), and whether you can afford to replace the engine tomorrow, when buying any single.
Click to expand...

I don't think you're getting it.

A new enigne is also a high failure item outside of one with a few hundred TSMO.

A nice engine analyzer is something you'll find standard in the nicer aircraft, something you won't often find in the bottom of the spectrum
 
James331 said:
I don't think you're getting it.

A new enigne is also a high failure item outside of one with a few hundred TSMO.

A nice engine analyzer is something you'll find standard in the nicer aircraft, something you won't often find in the bottom of the spectrum
Click to expand...

I'm getting it fine. You are making up things to justify your rant. Haha. He didn't say he was looking at anything "hundreds" of hours over TBO and plenty of us fly around without engine monitors with engines that wouldn't really benefit much from one. He's not exactly hunting for anything esoteric or high compression.

We're down to all you've got is a high-dollar airplane will have a monitor? Fine... Slap a monitor on it if it makes you feel better.

Much more important to know if it's been flying and inspect the thing well in small simple aircraft, and plan to maintain it -- even if that means it starts making metal in 100 hours. Which could happen with new or old.
 
denverpilot said:
I'm getting it fine. You are making up things to justify your rant. Haha. He didn't say he was looking at anything "hundreds" of hours over TBO and plenty of us fly around without engine monitors with engines that wouldn't really benefit much from one. He's not exactly hunting for anything esoteric or high compression.

We're down to all you've got is a high-dollar airplane will have a monitor? Fine... Slap a monitor on it if it makes you feel better.

Much more important to know if it's been flying and inspect the thing well in small simple aircraft, and plan to maintain it -- even if that means it starts making metal in 100 hours. Which could happen with new or old.
Click to expand...

A monitor is just one aspect of the normal diffrence between what you'll see between the top end price rung and the bottom rung of a type. If you think I'm making that up, go look at panel pics and compare the cheapest planes to the higher end, sure you can slap on a monitor, you can also slap on a GNS, autopilot, slap a 180hp conversion on a doggy o300, slap on reel shoulder harnesses, personally I'd just buy a nicer plane that already has that's stuff.

Engine monitors aren't just for high compression engines, if you're flying a single, even a twin to a lesser extent, knowing exactly what each jug is doing is paramount, I'm not going IMC in a piston single without one, nor do I feel very good doing night, or backcountry ops without one.
 
Alright guys guess you'll just have to agree to disagree...some people say "hey there are plenty of good planes out there for 35k...some say hey the planes at 35k are likely budget buys you really ought to summon up some more cash...and some say hey your a peasant and unless your rich like me and have 750k as disposable income you shouldn't bother flying.

I think I've seen everything I need to see...this thread can be closed now
 
CC268 said:
Alright guys guess you'll just have to agree to disagree...some people say "hey there are plenty of good planes out there for 35k...some say hey the planes at 35k are likely budget buys you really ought to summon up some more cash...and some say hey your a peasant and unless your rich like me and have 750k as disposable income you shouldn't bother flying.

I think I've seen everything I need to see...this thread can be closed now
Click to expand...

Welcome to POA.
 
James331 said:
Engine monitors aren't just for high compression engines, if you're flying a single, even a twin to a lesser extent, knowing exactly what each jug is doing is paramount, I'm not going IMC in a piston single without one, nor do I feel very good doing night, or backcountry ops without one.
Click to expand...

I have a 25 year old GEM 602; knowing where a problem may be has saved a lot of troubleshooting time. Figure the time difference between removing, inspecting and reinstalling one plug instead of six. Wash & repeat several times.
 
CC268 said:
some say hey the planes at 35k are likely budget buys you really ought to summon up some more cash...
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone is making a blanket statement like that. You can get a superb 152 for $35k in which to travel the country and get your IR. You original idea of Cherokee 180 had a lot of merit too.
 
zaitcev said:
I don't think anyone is making a blanket statement like that. You can get a superb 152 for $35k in which to travel the country and get your IR. You original idea of Cherokee 180 had a lot of merit too.
Click to expand...

Superb 152s are often available in the 15-20K range.
 
I want a superb 152 for under $20k. Superb sounds pretty good. Solid engine good for at least 1000 or more hours without much more than an oil change needed; decent radio stack; txponder, VOR and 120hp. Taildragger conversion a plus.
 
Hank S said:
Superb 152s are often available in the 15-20K range.
Click to expand...

Lol, nope.

I'm talking a aerobat or patroller, sub 500TSMO, ideally a 150hp conversion, maybe a older straight tail tailwheel conversion, all around 9/10 or better, /G with glide slope and a GNS or better, ADSB, reel seatbelts, LEDs, analyzer, balanced and rigged properly.

If you know where I can find a plane like that for 15-20, I'll take 3.
 
CC268 said:
I still would rather have the Cherokee I think...the Mooney seems like too much plane for me but maybe I am wrong...I would rather play it safe and fly something slower lol
Click to expand...

Buy the Mooney and don't put the gear up for the first 50 hours, it will fly just like a Cherokee ;-)
 
James331 said:
Lol, nope.

I'm talking a aerobat or patroller, sub 500TSMO, ideally a 150hp conversion, maybe a older straight tail tailwheel conversion, all around 9/10 or better, /G with glide slope and a GNS or better, ADSB, reel seatbelts, LEDs, analyzer, balanced and rigged properly.

If you know where I can find a plane like that for 15-20, I'll take 3.
Click to expand...

You just took a superb 15-20K plane and added another 15K in wants to it. They are available /A for 15-20K. I personally know of two that sold in that price, one with a 9-10 paint job, the other went for less $ with a 6-7 paint. ADSB this early in a 150/152 ain't gonna happen . . .
 
A old radio, bare bones panel is not a superb plane.

This is what I'm talking about, you can get the all out shabang 150/2, or get a bare bones, long in the tooth 172

The things I listed are not wants, IMO those are needs, 15k for a standard issue tie down 152 with a /A panel is a heap of money for a very limited airframe.

30k for what I mentioned is a good bang for the buck.

Trying to take the 15k budget buy 150 and trying to turn it into what I described would end up costing you at least 10k more then just buying one ready to rock

As for the ADSB, if you got a WAAS box, it's not that much of a issue to get the other half of the equation.
 
Here ya go

image.jpg


http://www.barnstormers.com/classif...0068-The_Ultimate_ReImagined_Cessna_150_6.pdf

I'd probably take it for 30k, but that's why it's a asking price not a getting price.

Plane like that is something you won't out grow, it's cheap to fly, burn auto fuel if wanted, will do anything you ask of it, good for some occasional IFR work, will shoot any plate you got,well kept and great ramp appeal, basically a baby C180.
 
I'd buy it...unfortunately my dad isn't adventurous enough to go for a tail wheel lol
 
James331 said:
A monitor is just one aspect of the normal diffrence between what you'll see between the top end price rung and the bottom rung of a type. If you think I'm making that up, go look at panel pics and compare the cheapest planes to the higher end, sure you can slap on a monitor, you can also slap on a GNS, autopilot, slap a 180hp conversion on a doggy o300, slap on reel shoulder harnesses, personally I'd just buy a nicer plane that already has that's stuff.

Engine monitors aren't just for high compression engines, if you're flying a single, even a twin to a lesser extent, knowing exactly what each jug is doing is paramount, I'm not going IMC in a piston single without one, nor do I feel very good doing night, or backcountry ops without one.
Click to expand...

None of that has anything to do with your initial assertion that he'd have an engine failure if he bought an inexpensive aircraft.

CC268 said:
Alright guys guess you'll just have to agree to disagree...some people say "hey there are plenty of good planes out there for 35k...some say hey the planes at 35k are likely budget buys you really ought to summon up some more cash...and some say hey your a peasant and unless your rich like me and have 750k as disposable income you shouldn't bother flying.

I think I've seen everything I need to see...this thread can be closed now
Click to expand...

I'm just seeing if he was making crap up. He was. Been around the block enough times to know it doesn't matter how much money you throw at an airplane, it'll break eventually. The money is usually better spent on training, considering the vast majority of accidents are caused by poor pilot skillset and loss of control at low altitude. Plus you'd better be ready to land any single, no matter how much money has been thrown at it, engine out. (Goes for twins also, but you have a few more options. Until you don't.)
 
Data point for you OP: Coming home from OSH yesterday, a plane with ADS-B out appeared on my GPS around Warsaw, IN yesterday enroute to Columbus, OH (KTZR). Over the ensuing miles, it gained on us, until it was finally in view @ 1/2 mile off my left wing. As it did so, we googled the N #. After awhile he was no longer in sight, but I could see he was landing at KOSU due north of my home airport. I'd guess he got there 10 minutes sooner than I over the course of 150+ nauticals. The plane was a Cherokee 180 which my buddy thought must have had the power pulled back as according to him it should have run away from us.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top