Viable airplane options for low time pilots?

CC268

CC268

Final Approach
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Messages
5,532
Display Name
Display name:
CC268
Hey guys,

I know there are a lot of threads on here about this (most of them I have read)...I have 55 hours...brand new pilot..my dad has over 100 hours (still very new as well). We have been looking at Cherokee 180s as well as several other things (Beech Sundowner, old Mooneys, etc) for quite some time. I don't think he wants to spend much more than 35k - which from what I have seen doesn't get you much (but it is better than nothing).

I think in the end we will end up with a Cherokee 180 (I would love a 172, but they seem to be quite expensive).

However, I am curious - is an older Mooney too much plane for new pilots (of course I would have to get my Complex rating)? I would rather be safe than sorry and stay with something easy to fly for now, but I thought I would ask. I am also wondering if 35k will even get us something worth while? I really want something I can do my IFR rating in...

I kind of worry about putting myself in some of these really old planes that cosmetically look pretty weathered.
 
Last edited:
The Mooney is a lot of airplane, but you can certainly get ample training to make you proficient in one, even with 55 hours. You can't go wrong with a Cherokee 180, they are a great aircraft, depending on what your mission is of course.

As far as an old airplane that looks its age from the outside, remember, the paint job doesn't make the airplane fly. As long as its had the required maintenance and everything is up to par, a cosmetically worn aircraft is just fine! :)
 
I went from a 180 to a mooney at 100 hrs. Seemed similar as far as utility, but noticeably faster. 35k gets you a pretty basic 180 or mooney. Look very close for corrosion and leaks in the mooney. Also Mooneyspace is an invaluable resource.
 
Hmm alright maybe were better off sticking with the Cherokee 180 (which is what we have been looking at for the most part anyways). If 35k won't get us something that is safe to fly I will just keep renting for now...

Maybe we need to up the budget to 800k for a cirrus?
 
CC268 said:
Lol yea...

Nice find! I would just want to reconfigure the panel to give me the standard 6 pack
Click to expand...
That could be done easily, no biggie. Hope everything works for you!
 
CC268 said:
Hmm alright maybe were better off sticking with the Cherokee 180 (which is what we have been looking at for the most part anyways). If 35k won't get us something that is safe to fly I will just keep renting for now...

Maybe we need to up the budget to 800k for a cirrus?
Click to expand...

35K can get you a very safe and airworthy plane. It can also get you a $$$ nightmare. And that goes for both planes. Obviously, I'm biased towards the mooney. I haven't regretted switching from the 180 a single minute. You just have to be prepared for higher insurance and more expenses that go hand in hand with complex aircraft.

BTW, I did my instrument rating in the mooney. Best thing I ever did. I was a much better pilot afterwards.
 
CC268 said:
Lol yea...

Nice find! I would just want to reconfigure the panel to give me the standard 6 pack
Click to expand...
Flying without the "usual" 6-pack is not that big of a deal. You will just have to adapt to your equipment and after awhile, it will be second nature.

I certainly wouldn't turn down an option if that was its only downfall.
 
For 35k

Cessna 120/140

Wittman tailwind

Stinson 108

7AC

Chief

Lusc.

that's about the off the cuff best bang for 35k.
 
I like the Cherokee 180 ,its a lot of airplane for the money for low time pilots. The money,dye to being a complex aircraft ,may be faster,but usually maintenance prices are going to be higher.
 
How is a 172 too expensive for a $35k budget?

Should a bunch for less than your budget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I flew a cherokee 180 today, fine plane. but you really didn't say what your mission is, unless I missed it.
 
Thanks a lot to everyone who has posted:

Mission is just something to build hours in, do my IFR rating in, fly distances of (100-200 miles) - maybe the occasional trip from Arizona to California..
 
JoseCuervo said:
How is a 172 too expensive for a $35k budget?

Should a bunch for less than your budget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

My dad has looked around for 172s...I have as well...the ones for 35k that I have seen are beat...decent ones are closer to 50k+
 
Ryanb said:
I agree, that's a very superficial issue.
Click to expand...

We have already asked an A&P how much it would be to reconfigure a panel into the six pack layout...it wouldn't be bad at all
 
James331 said:
For 35k

Cessna 120/140

Wittman tailwind

Stinson 108

7AC

Chief

Lusc.

that's about the off the cuff best bang for 35k.
Click to expand...

Most of those are tail draggers right? My dad has NO interest in a tail dragger (I would love to have one) so most of those are out.
 
CC268 said:
Hey guys,

I am curious - is an older Mooney too much plane for new pilots (of course I would have to get my Complex rating)? I would rather be safe than sorry and stay with something easy to fly for now, but I thought I would ask. I am also wondering if 35k will even get us something worth while? I really want something I can do my IFR rating in...
Click to expand...

A Mooney is very doable. I bought mine with 62 hours, a whopping five weeks after my PPL checkride.

Two things are important: 1) a Pre Purchase Insoection from an A&P who knows the type of plane you are buying; 2) training in the plane from an instructor who is familiar with the type. I used the instructor my insurance company recommended, for 15 hours including 5 hours IMC. Mooneys are traveling machines, they didn't want something stoopid happening when I was traveling, and I traveled a lot! Still do . . .

P.S.--this just came in the market: http://mooneyspace.com/topic/19295-for-sale-1965-mooney-m20e-super-21/
 
CC268 said:
My dad has looked around for 172s...I have as well...the ones for 35k that I have seen are beat...decent ones are closer to 50k+
Click to expand...

Look on Trade-A-Plane or Controller.com.

172's are a "dime a dozen".

$35k will get you an IFR one.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Look on Trade-A-Plane or Controller.com.

172's are a "dime a dozen".

$35k will get you an IFR one.
Click to expand...

So shy of falling into a deal of the century type of arrangement, which is like finding a jackalope while on a ride on your unicorn.


The only "IFR" 172s selling for 35k, well.... I'm sure you'll be ok, but I wouldn't fly em'

If he wants a trike, for 35k I'd be looking at AA1s or a tripacer, maybe a 150/2 if you want a more boring plane, that type of aircraft, where you could get a real gem for that price.

Anymore plane than that, you're looking at stuff which is likley to require some $ignificant work, unless you're an A&P, or can turn your own wrenches and know a A&P, I'd steer clear of that area.




You go to look at your budget (35k), and ask yourself

Do I want a pristine corvette, or a flood damaged Ferrari with a knocking engine.
 
Last edited:
For a slight stretch of budget, Gitmo's straight tail 172 would fit many of your check boxes.
 
AggieMike88 said:
For a slight stretch of budget, Gitmo's straight tail 172 would fit many of your check boxes.
Click to expand...

Looking back, it's a 0-300, which is not the ideal 172 engine, it's a Venturi vac system which makes would need to be changed, it's existing vac instruments look a little long in the tooth, it needs a CDI, realistically it needs 2 CDIs and a newer navcom, 6/7 paint, etc.

Nice plane, but for 35k for a IFR plane which is going to be used for this guys mission, just not the best bang for the buck, think for a new to aviation person a turn key machine would be a better choice than something which needs work to be brought into a mission capabible state.
 
CC268 said:
Hey guys,

I know there are a lot of threads on here about this (most of them I have read)...I have 55 hours...brand new pilot..my dad has over 100 hours (still very new as well). We have been looking at Cherokee 180s as well as several other things (Beech Sundowner, old Mooneys, etc) for quite some time. I don't think he wants to spend much more than 35k - which from what I have seen doesn't get you much (but it is better than nothing).

I think in the end we will end up with a Cherokee 180 (I would love a 172, but they seem to be quite expensive).

However, I am curious - is an older Mooney too much plane for new pilots (of course I would have to get my Complex rating)? I would rather be safe than sorry and stay with something easy to fly for now, but I thought I would ask. I am also wondering if 35k will even get us something worth while? I really want something I can do my IFR rating in...

I kind of worry about putting myself in some of these really old planes that cosmetically look pretty weathered.
Click to expand...
You should worry! You and dad should wait until you've saved twenty grand more before even looking. You are going to get a dog if you try to cheap it. James 331 is trying to send you a message.
 
James331 said:
So shy of falling into a deal of the century type of arrangement, which is like finding a jackalope while on a ride on your unicorn.


The only "IFR" 172s selling for 35k, well.... I'm sure you'll be ok, but I wouldn't fly em'

If he wants a trike, for 35k I'd be looking at AA1s or a tripacer, maybe a 150/2 if you want a more boring plane, that type of aircraft, where you could get a real gem for that price.

Anymore plane than that, you're looking at stuff which is likley to require some $ignificant work, unless you're an A&P, or can turn your own wrenches and know a A&P, I'd steer clear of that area.




You go to look at your budget (35k), and ask yourself

Do I want a pristine corvette, or a flood damaged Ferrari with a knocking engine.
Click to expand...


There looks like about 40 172's on TradeAPlane that could meet his budget.

f6a8ffdff1d0cc8fd4623afa211f6172.jpg


1c0c6b92b4c82ee75d74489483f8ce5a.jpg


3172d8ea5be2082763e252caab7f8345.jpg
 
I'm confident you will be able to find a decent 172 for that budget if that's what you're after. Just have some patience.
 
I can also find you plenty of S class Benz for under 20k, how many do you want and do you have AAA
 
James331 said:
I can also find you plenty of S class Benz for under 20k, how many do you want and do you have AAA
Click to expand...

I don't want any 172's, by t the OP does, and there are a bunch for him to sift thru.

There will be one that meets his needs and his budget, if he wants to spend the money,mane the effort to look for one.
 
Look at Cherokee 140's and 160's as well. If just time building and $100 hamburger runs they'll be quite a bit less even than a 180 with similar performance. The 140 won't climb or cruise quite as well but the difference is not so much that it will not suit your mission. If you're seeking to spend money on the panel, saving money on the airframe may do some good.

As others have suggested, most $35k Cherokees and Skyhawks have been used and abused as trainers or have been run out. (not all but many) So have your A&P buddy take a look.
 
Interesting feedback - maybe we ought to just keep renting
 
labbadabba said:
Look at Cherokee 140's and 160's as well. If just time building and $100 hamburger runs they'll be quite a bit less even than a 180 with similar performance. The 140 won't climb or cruise quite as well but the difference is not so much that it will not suit your mission. If you're seeking to spend money on the panel, saving money on the airframe may do some good.

As others have suggested, most $35k Cherokees and Skyhawks have been used and abused as trainers or have been run out. (not all but many) So have your A&P buddy take a look.
Click to expand...


I wouldn't spend money on a panel, at least in certified airplanes, if the panel isn't at lest 85% where you want it, you're going to likley loose your shirt doing a full panel redo, I'd rather but a plane with a done up panel and TBO the engine.

Or just get a smaller plane that's already done up all the way around.
 
James331 said:
I'd rather but a plane with a done up panel and TBO the engine.
Click to expand...
Concur with this. Run properly and treated well, the engine can continue to past stated TBO for a long ways. It might be many years before it tells you it's time to replace. And by then, you might have the additional cash saved up to fund the project.
 
If the idea is to build time in local trips, go for the basic airplane. On the occasions when you want to fly much further out, either rent or fly the airlines.

My thought is that if you buy an airplane for the longer flights, you're going to find that local flying will cost you a lot more. So if most of your flights will be within 1-200 miles, a 172, a Piper 140/150/161, or an AA Tiger/Traveler might do for you.
 
Stephanie B said:
So if most of your flights will be within 1-200 miles, a 172, a Piper 140/150/161, or an AA Tiger/Traveler might do for you.
Click to expand...
Plus, if part of the mission is learning how to be a responsible airplane owner and how to perform owner permitted maintenance items, aircraft such as these are easy and affordable ones to learn on. Lots of folks all over the place know how to work on them, and parts are readily available.
 
I picked up a nice VFR Cherokee 140 with a 180 engine that is really a great performer... for 23k... they are out there... keep looking. the Cherokee 180 will carry more load than a 172, and I just like the low wing for a lot of reasons..
 
CC268 said:
Interesting feedback - maybe we ought to just keep renting
Click to expand...

That is the goal of many of the contributors on POA; to discourage airplane ownership as frequently as possible.

Read thru many of the threads, and, it doesn't matter what planes are being considered, the anti-purchase comments are 10:1 compared to the helpful comments.

It is crazy for someone to say that out of the 40+ 172's in your budget, they are all "beat up" and unworthy of purchase. That is kind of the sweet spot market price for 172's these days. It seems like every airport I fly into has a bulletin board with a $25k-35k 172 for sale, and two more with for sale signs out on the ramp.

If you want to find one, start looking at the close airports. Check out Craigslist, you will find one that meets your needs. Lots of old guys are having to sell their planes, and they aren't the most sophisticated marketers. You sometimes have to seek them out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top