VFR pilot and ownership

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Flyfeld

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Flyfeld
Looking for some input from my fellow pilots on owning an aircraft without instrument rating. Not looking for advice on wether to get my instrument rating since I am aware of all that and it may or may not happen. I live in the northeast and fly only recreationally with no pressing needs to be anywhere at a certain time. Most of my missions are 100 to 300 miles XC with an occasional longer trip. I rent currently and I am not flying enough since it is tough to schedule etc. I would fly at least once a week if I owned versus once a month now, and I am a firm believer this is an activity that should be done on a regular basis for obvious reasons. I have been looking for shared ownership etc. to no avail and am on the fence wether I should go ahead and do this on my own. Thanks.
 
The biggest real advantage to ownership is availability- the plane is always there when you want it. Also, when you want to take it somewhere for a week you can just do so without worrying about minimum hours or being that jerk who keeps taking the plane and keeping it all week.
 
If you really enjoy flying and plan to continue, I would say move forward with purchasing. Most of us have to make sacrifices to own an airplane, but at least for me, it is worth the sacrifice. My advice would be to purchase a simple airplane rather than complex. Flying weekly would likely make it cheaper to own as long as you don't get slammed with a huge expense, like a new engine.

My $0.02 worth.
 
As Cowman said. Also, if you own your airplane, you will likely fly more. I think most of us do.
 
Just like EVERYTHING else in life - if you can afford it, do it. What $ price do you put on convenience and security?
Very much a personal choice.
I've never regretted ownership, but learned to fly late in life when the expenses didn't mean forgoing something else.
There are of course time costs as well - attending to your own servicing, inspections, etc.
 
That's an interesting question.

The only way I think VFR vs IFR is relevant to your question is utility: in an area where IFR conditions can be widespread and often, how much utility will you get out of it? But I think you already know the answer to that based on your statement that yo would fly once-a-week if an airplane were available. I think owners will tell you it's even more than that; once you have an airplane, no reason to let it sit there costing money anyway, might as well fly (I'm in a large flying club and there are many trips I decide to drive or fly commercially because I don't want to "hog" the airplane)

I think you look at your past history, your future reasonable flight time expectations, and make a calculation that gives yo the best bang for the buck.
 
I bought my plane five weeks after my PPL checkride. Took another three years to decide to knuckle down and get IR. But I flew from WV tomYellowstone and back the year after I bought the plane, VFR both directions. You can still get a lot of utility out of the plane, it's just more difficult planning those week-long getaways, and you need to keep a close eye on the weather forecast while you're gone.
 
A friend has been a VFR only Comanche owner for decades. He has flown all over the country VFR only. It can be an issue for him sometimes, but he manages.
 
Hank S said:
I bought my plane five weeks after my PPL checkride. Took another three years to decide to knuckle down and get IR. But I flew from WV tomYellowstone and back the year after I bought the plane, VFR both directions. You can still get a lot of utility out of the plane, it's just more difficult planning those week-long getaways, and you need to keep a close eye on the weather forecast while you're gone.
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I've now done 2 major VFR vacations, one to FL and one to TX... I live in IL. It absolutely can be done but weather WILL be a factor. You must plan for delays of a day or two.... preferably more because it's going to happen. For FL we blocked off 2 weeks and didn't even leave home until day 6.... ended up extending the trip by 2 days. This last trip to TX we didn't get going for the first 48 hours but were able to get home on schedule.

It helps to be entirely self-employed and not beholding to other people's schedules....
 
If you afford it, do it. The plane is always waiting on you, you know it's in and outs, and will probably be in better condition than a rental. If your heart is pulling you towards ownership, just do it.
 
I am also a VFR pilot although I did allot of IFR training before I moved and just never got back to it. I bought my airplane because it seemed that when I reserved one at the club the weather would go bad or when the weather was nice there was never a plane available. I am paying allot for convenience but I can afford it.

I do not fly as much as I would like because I have a job and can't just wait out an extended weather issue. Next year I'll not have that problem and will fly more.

I made a trip to OSH a couple years back and had to scud run into OSH (~2500) but I had been practicing low level in anticipation of the approach so I was comfortable with it. Would not have done it without the practice. I've made a few trips where I told ATC (I'm always on FF) that I had to land and wait out a passing storm. Usually in the summer the storms move fast. In the winter they can last a couple of days.

I guess it boils down to cost of convenience and I chose to pay the price of convenience.
 
cowman said:
It helps to be entirely self-employed and not beholding to other people's schedules....
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My situation exactly, I have the time which is one advantage to starting flying later in life.
 
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Go for it.

My last plane was a VFR ship, I flew here coast to coast and boarder to boarder, I also find VFR flying much more enjoyable, but there will be times you'll miss out of a flight, again though, that ain't always a bad thing, it's hard for some hobby pilots who also work outside of aviation to stay proficient in BOTH VFR and IFR.

All that being said, even as a VFR pilot, you'll want a good attitude indicator and DG, maybe just get that solid state dynon or garmin, that'd probably be the best bet, even could wipe out the vac system if you did that. Reason I recommend this, chit happens, between night ops without a good horizon and the weather just going odd ball weather stuff, for the legs you're taking about, just good insurance.
 
I would have to have a GPS like a Garmin etc, I have flown G1000 glass and really like traffic not that I would spend the coin on the G1000 but a 430 or better would be in the cards.
 
I fly with a 430w as my primary nav, then an iphone 6s plus on a suction cup mount paired with a stratus to give me traffic/weather/sectionals. I also carry an ipad but I pretty much use that as an extra chart/something to hand passengers to look at.

All my instruments beyond that are steam gauges.... I find all this works well and I feel absolutely no motivation to upgrade to glass.
 
A Stratus plus ForeFlight (or equivalent) is worth an entire glass panel for the simple VFR mission. I agree with the idea of keeping the airplane as simple as possible if you are going this route. The purchase price of high end avionics and capability is only the start. Keeping it all well sorted in working order is a hidden cost that will go on and on.

And yes, if you really love to fly and you can afford it, purchase an airplane. Best decision I ever made (but I didn't follow my own advice about keeping it simple lol).
 
Flyfeld said:
I would have to have a GPS like a Garmin etc, I have flown G1000 glass and really like traffic not that I would spend the coin on the G1000 but a 430 or better would be in the cards.
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I'm confused, for a VFR bird you aren't going to use 80% of a GNS430
 
Buy it. My dad and I are VFR pilots and have owned a plane for years. We have a cabin in Canada and I've made several 350 mile trips up north. I can't imagine dealing with the hassle of trying to rent. If you can, buy a plane with good avionics. That way if you decide to get your IFR, you're most of the way there. I'd love to get my IFR but the radios cost more then the airplane.
 
James331 said:
I'm confused, for a VFR bird you aren't going to use 80% of a GNS430
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I agree. For VFR an Ipad and FF or Garmin Pilot are more then enough, but if you can find a plane that already has a 430w, go for it.
 
James331 said:
I'm confused, for a VFR bird you aren't going to use 80% of a GNS430
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I still like a 430, even VFR. Just easy and simple to get places.

But, if I weren't IFR rated, a certified GPS wouldn't be a must have. Use an iPad or buy a used Garmin hand held. Works just as well. Better in some ways because you can see your path right on top of the VFR chart.
 
I usually fly the rental 172 with I Pad and Fore Flight and it is very much sufficient, but having a GPS is a plus in case I want to get into IFR etc.
 
Flyfeld said:
I usually fly the rental 172 with I Pad and Fore Flight and it is very much sufficient, but having a GPS is a plus in case I want to get into IFR etc.
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I got the impression you didn't want anyone to push you into IFR from your first post, not really sure what youre asking anymore
 
I suspect most owners don't have instrument ratings. I certainly owned a plane for a decade before I got rated.

Of course, owning a plane that I knew how to fly instinctively did make it a whole lot easier when I did decide to get my instrument rating.
 
Remember if you are VFR only, you'll still get to fly 70-80% of your trips in a timely manner, if your have your IR in a simple single engine airplane that boosts you 90% dispatch. Once you have your own plane and start going on longer trips, you may be like me an decide it's worth it to increase your dispatch rate. :D That being said, buy the plane!
 
James331 said:
got the impression you didn't want anyone to push you into IFR from your first post, not really sure what youre asking anymore
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You are right I got off track responding to posts, I am looking for a shove off the fence to go buy an airplane even if I am VFR only pilot. This is good input I am getting since I never knew there were lots of other VFR only owners out there.
 
Oh, well heck yeah, Ive been very happy with ownership, just find a good APIA who will kinda take you under his wing a little and don't be afraid to turn a wrench and stay ontop of things.

If youre looking to end up IFR, by all means buy a plane that already is a /G and rigged for IFR ops.
 
I purchased my plane post PPL and flew for two years VFR only for numerous 200+ NM trips...monthly if not weekly. Not having IFR will limit your flights a bit, but not to a point of not being practical. I would not hesitate one bit again buying again VFR only.

I probably would fly and half to a quarter of what I do now if I had to rent. Availability is the biggest motivator.

After two years I ultimately got my IFR as I live on the coast and have to contend with a persistent marine layer and got tired of diverting...but once you get your plane you always have the option to start IFR at your leisure.

I agree with the notion that if IFR is even a twinkle in your eye down the road...get a plane that is already set for IFR ops.
 
I am at least a year away from buying. I continue to think about the pros and cons. I believe renting is cheaper when you look at the numbers. The thing for me is that those numbers don't include convenience. By convenience, i am referring to the straight up scheduling as well as the requesting that the plane not be filled to the tabs because I am taking four of us on a day trip and hoping no one inadvertently fills it, or this plane is down for 100 hour so we moved you to this plane but I needed the useful load of the plane I originally scheduled, etc. I know, first world problems. Someone posted about buying a Maule 180 the other day and I really like how that plane looks on paper.
 
There's nothing like owning for convenience, fun, and safety. And the safety angle is real. You will get to maintain the airplane to your specifications. You will know it intimately, and you will be aware of everything that happens to it.
 
Nothing like having your own airplane if you enjoy flying.i usually fly two days a week,with a few long cross countries a year.
 
Plus having the option to own something you won't find for rent anywhere. Don't limit yourself to boring trainers like 152/72, PA28s etc, lots of other really cool planes to look at, once you get a handle on what your mission really is going to be.

My plane, and the plane I had before that, I've never seen one for rent.
 
NoBShere said:
I am at least a year away from buying. I continue to think about the pros and cons. I believe renting is cheaper when you look at the numbers. The thing for me is that those numbers don't include convenience.
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Dollar for dollar it is probably indeed "cheaper" to rent than buy in the long run for the average recreational pilot once you factor in everything you actually spend throughout the year...but as you noted, you are really buying the convenience, availability and familiarity.

Personally I have a 1973 182P and knowing that thing inside and out is a bit of comfort. I know how often things may not be quite right with my plane due to my familiarity. I if had to hop in a different rental for each of my long XC trips not knowing who flew it last or what went wrong last, that would certainly add a bit of concern and uneasiness to my trip as frequent as I go. Things can and do go wrong any time in any plane but no one gets to know your own plane better than you when you own.
 
I purchased my Archer in the middle of my PPL training. I had no problem scheduling a plane, as the FBO wasn't that busy and had several planes. In fact, I had no intention of buying a plane. It just sort of happened. But I don't regret it at all. I've racked up nearly 400 hrs on her in just over 2 years, and have loved every minute of it.

I had no intention of getting IFR, as I work from home, for myself, and never really have to worry about getting there or back on time. However, we live in an area that gets a lot of fog in the mornings that can take until noon to burn off. After having to cancel plans (on what would have otherwise been beautiful VFR days) just because of the fog, I finally got my IR this year.

Definitely buy. But if you can, get it one that is IFR, just in case you decide to get the rating later. And I'm with you on the GPS, especially if you can find one with a good autopilot with GPSS. Sometimes it's great to just let the AP follow the magenta line, while you drink your coffee and enjoy the view.
 
Rykymus said:
Definitely buy. But if you can, get it one that is IFR, just in case you decide to get the rating later. And I'm with you on the GPS, especially if you can find one with a good autopilot with GPSS. Sometimes it's great to just let the AP follow the magenta line, while you drink your coffee and enjoy the view.
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Agreed...knowing what I know now a 430 and AP that holds altitude and heading at a minimum are on my MEL for any XC plane that is gonna be a transportation machine if I ever need to buy anything else.
 
Flyfeld said:
Looking for some input from my fellow pilots on owning an aircraft without instrument rating. Not looking for advice on wether to get my instrument rating since I am aware of all that and it may or may not happen. I live in the northeast and fly only recreationally with no pressing needs to be anywhere at a certain time. Most of my missions are 100 to 300 miles XC with an occasional longer trip. I rent currently and I am not flying enough since it is tough to schedule etc. I would fly at least once a week if I owned versus once a month now, and I am a firm believer this is an activity that should be done on a regular basis for obvious reasons. I have been looking for shared ownership etc. to no avail and am on the fence wether I should go ahead and do this on my own. Thanks.
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Funny story (not really) about a $700 rental hour (PA28-140) that ended in a hangar rash (not my fault) and lacking insurance. I decided to spare you the details, but eating the bill made my decision to buy my own much easier. I'll be breaking my own airplane from here on. BTW, it's hard to align rental schedule and my timing and weather here too. Looking forward to one less variable. I hope you get to do the same when you want to.
 
Yep, I gotta weigh in here too. Obviously I can't knock IFR, but if you're gonna fly in the soup, I'm pretty sure the instrument guys will tell you you'd better be current & sharp. That's time & money maintaining that edge and as a sole owner, I don't have an excess of both. Like others I've been all over VFR and while I've never had to sit down for days at a time, I have had to sit down and a couple of times turn around and go a different way.

This summer I circumnavigated Lake Michigan starting from Central Ohio, stopping at KOSH and then home on time and on schedule, 1300 nauticals but we built in plenty of time for delays. Being an owner has its own satisfaction and joy. I changed my oil & filter last weekend and it only took me THREE tries to safety the filter properly! Loved every minute of it.
 
Shawn said:
I agree with the notion that if IFR is even a twinkle in your eye down the road...get a plane that is already set for IFR ops.
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Agree 100% with this. If you do decide to get the IR and your plane is VFR only, the cost of getting it set up for IFR is likely going to be prohibitive unless you're satisfied with steam gauges. I was in the middle of IFR training when I bought mine, and high on my purchase criteria was that it had to be a good travel plane and a stable IFR platform, already equipped with a /G panel. In 2010, to me that meant something equivalent to a 430W and an auto-slaving HSI. I wound up getting a Cardinal RG with a 480, a Sandel 3308, and lots of other goodies. Although it's true that if I'd decided not to finish my IFR this high tech stuff (for that decade) would have been way more than I needed, I could not have afforded to have all of that installed on my own. I joke that I bought the panel and got the airplane for free (though that's not quite true since the engine was zero-time when I bought it, so I paid for at least part of the engine too).
 
If you can afford a plane, without breaking the bank, buy a plane.
If you out grow the plane, sell it and trade up.
I started out in J-3s and Airknockers (on floats), got my tail-wheel, complex, Instrument, glider, multi-engine piston, multi-engine jet, worked my way through a big chunk of the Air Force inventory, flew multi-engine piston and jets when I got out, and here I am, 52 years later flying Light Sport, J-3s and Airknockers again.
Looking back, I don't regret a penny or a minute I ever spent on flying.
(In the interests of full disclosure, I'm not sure how my wife feels about any of it, but we have a strictly enforced "Don't ask, Don't tell" policy around here.)
 
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