VFR on Top

[roncachamp]

How 'bout below MIA as per 91.177 (a)(2)(i) direct beyond navaid service volumes and below radar coverage?
Reason I ask is some years ago I was right seat with a friend flying an old Cessna 175, departed Lewistown, MT westbound --D-> t'ward the Whitehall VOR, wx at LWT was just a scattered layer improving to clear as we proceeded west. We filed for 12,000 and when we picked up the clearance on the ground Center said he needed us at 14,000 for radar. We took it and advised Center that we weren't too sure this old Skylark would climb that high but we'll try. When we're just above twelve thousand and barely climbing I told my buddy "I think you might as well cancel, we ain't gonna' make it to fourteen" but before he could key the mic' Center called and offered us VFR on TOP .....so we took it and leveled at 12,500'. Not sure if that was legal? But we did it

FAR 91.177 applies to VFR-on-Top operations, NAVAID service volume limitation do not.

 

[aterpster]

How 'bout below MIA as per 91.177 (a)(2)(i) direct beyond navaid service volumes and below radar coverage?
Reason I ask is some years ago I was right seat with a friend flying an old Cessna 175, departed Lewistown, MT westbound --D-> t'ward the Whitehall VOR, wx at LWT was just a scattered layer improving to clear as we proceeded west. We filed for 12,000 and when we picked up the clearance on the ground Center said he needed us at 14,000 for radar. We took it and advised Center that we weren't too sure this old Skylark would climb that high but we'll try. When we're just above twelve thousand and barely climbing I told my buddy "I think you might as well cancel, we ain't gonna' make it to fourteen" but before he could key the mic' Center called and offered us VFR on TOP .....so we took it and leveled at 12,500'. Not sure if that was legal? But we did it

What was your filed and cleared route? If you are at MEA, say 12,000, and the controller says, "I'll need you at 14,000 for radar coverage," the simple answer is "unable 14,000 due to performance limitations."

 

[peerlesscowboy]

What was your filed and cleared route? If you are at MEA, say 12,000, and the controller says, "I'll need you at 14,000 for radar coverage," the simple answer is "unable 14,000 due to performance limitations."

off LWT ...( --D-> HIA --D-> 7S1). That's off Lewistown direct to the Whitehall VOR (128 nm) direct to the Twin Bridges airport (20 nm).
We're direct (off airway) in controlled airspace beyond the LWT & HIA service volumes. 12,000 complies with 91.177 (a)(2)(i) but Center wants us at 14,000 for radar monitoring.

 

[aterpster]

off LWT ...( --D-> HIA --D-> 7S1). That's off Lewistown direct to the Whitehall VOR (128 nm) direct to the Twin Bridges airport (20 nm).
We're direct (off airway) in controlled airspace beyond the LWT & HIA service volumes. 12,000 complies with 91.177 (a)(2)(i) but Center wants us at 14,000 for radar monitoring.

Understand now since you were off airways.

 

[FORANE]

Resurrecting an old thread for a question:

On a VFR on top clearance, I understand altitude must be higher than minimum IFR altitude for the course to be flown, and the altitude should be an appropriate VFR altitude. Does the course have to be approved when operating VFR on top? For example, say you are direct destination and would like to deviate right or left of course, does that deviation have to be requested and approved?

 

[roncachamp]

On a VFR on top clearance, I understand altitude must be higher than minimum IFR altitude for the course to be flown, and the altitude should be an appropriate VFR altitude. Does the course have to be approved when operating VFR on top? For example, say you are direct destination and would like to deviate right or left of course, does that deviation have to be requested and approved?

Strictly speaking, yes, because a VFR-on-Top clearance offers no relief from the requirement to follow the cleared route. Given that separation is not an issue approval for that deviation request should be immediate.

 

[akflyer]

One of the biggest benefits to me of VFR-on-top is the ability to change altitude as needed to stay *out* of the clouds in an airplane without anti- or de-icing capabilities. It's a handy way to basically keep the flexibility of flying VFR, while retaining the "safety net" of being able to request an IFR altitude on a moment's notice if the weather starts closing in, or to get through a cloud layer on the descent.

 

[luvflyin]

Where it really helps, and was probably the original intent, is departing IFR, getting above the clouds and then getting back down IFR at your destination without balling up the system with a need to be separated from other traffic Enroute along the way. When you get there you don't have to get a new clearance to get down. You're already on a clearance. It can get you shortcuts. You just need a new altitude assignment that lets you go back down into the goo. Just getting On Top and canceling and being on your merry way VFR is probably the most common use today. I've used it before when flying over desolate terrain. Someone is paying attention to you the whole way. No worry about getting terminated when your getting VFR traffic advisories(flight following) and relying on a VFR flight plan to set SAR into motion. If ya gotta go down in the wilderness the SAR system will probably get set in motion sooner than being overdue at destination and not closing a VFR flight plan.

 

[SbestCFII]

No...as an IFR operation, even in visual conditions, VFR-on-top doesn't permit you to fly below the Minimum IFR altitude appropriate to the route.