VFR and Zero Cloud Clearance

when i was a kid my uncle used to take me "cloud bumping" in his cherokee 140. i thought it was a blast. we also liked cutting up a roll of toilet paper and buzzing grandpa's house.
 
I was wondering what it would be like to fly with a yoke/stick like that.
 
I can't tell from the video that he's doing anything wrong. Those clouds look thin enough that he probably could see right through them and the only one he seemed close to looked small enough to see around. Not every wisp of moisture constitutes a cloud. I'm not saying he didn't violate the cloud clearance rules, just that I can't tell that he did from the video. Keep in mind that cameras see things differently than eyes.
 
Cloud buzzing is fun, and In the glider I always stay 500' below the cloud ;)

The music this guy chose, on the other hand should be a capital offense:D
 
I have to give this guy a pass, Adam - a small puffball on a scattered day - he can see what's on the other side well before he gets there ....and likely when he's in it (we can't know for sure)
Certainly there are egregious examples of rule-breaking and we should do what is safe - but on the other side there is 'being so safe, its not fun'.
Flying carries some risks, and I accept that not all are from my own dumb moves.
 
are we assuming the plane isn't equipped for instrument flight?
 
roncachamp said:
No. In a similar discussion on the red board someone familiar with it stated it was not.
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was he the owner or the FSDO rep who issued its operating limitations? otherwise, how would he know?

It looks like it has a Dynon or Blue Mountain or other similar EFIS. Those typically meet the requirements for flight instruments. and standard experimental oplims allow instrument flying if equipped IAW 91.20whatever.

just playing devils advocate, btw...
 
I think what he was doing was fine. Playing in the clouds like that is what brings people into aviation. Instrument pilots aren't generally killed by someone playing around small puffy clouds like in that video.
 
jesse said:
I think what he was doing was fine. Playing in the clouds like that is what brings people into aviation. Instrument pilots aren't generally killed by someone playing around small puffy clouds like in that video.
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Your probably correct but I recall being on an IFR plan for a short 45 min hop at 4000' we where in and out of puffys sometimes for up to 2 min sometimes for 20 seconds. There was a plane off at my 1-2:00 O'Clock playing with the coulds clearly not on an IFR plan he was dancing and changing altitudes really looked like he was sticking his wing in some of the puffys and scooting in and out of the very tops of some.

For the most part it was a pretty clear day, I was just flyng in a thin layer. I could see the guy well but was concerned that he could turn or drift over my way. Had he been at my 12:00 and on the other side of a small Cumulus I would not have seen him and there could have very well been some ugly sounds and bent metal.
 
AdamZ said:
Your probably correct but I recall being on an IFR plan for a short 45 min hop at 4000' we where in and out of puffys sometimes for up to 2 min sometimes for 20 seconds. There was a plane off at my 1-2:00 O'Clock playing with the coulds clearly not on an IFR plan he was dancing and changing altitudes really looked like he was sticking his wing in some of the puffys and scooting in and out of the very tops of some.

For the most part it was a pretty clear day, I was just flyng in a thin layer. I could see the guy well but was concerned that he could turn or drift over my way. Had he been at my 12:00 and on the other side of a small Cumulus I would not have seen him and there could have very well been some ugly sounds and bent metal.
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Did ATC give you an observed target?
 
dmccormack said:
So did the pilot -- and I suppose he made the determination that in-flight visibility was still within VFR limits.

:D
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Visibility is just part of the VFR requirements, one must also maintain not less than the minimum required distance from clouds. It's a moot point, however, when one is within clouds one has neither the required visibility nor the required distance from clouds.
 
Ya know Dan I can't recall. It was in an area between RDG and LNS where there are a good amount of NORDO planes. Come to think of it I think they did call traffic for another plane but we were IMC. I don't recall any calls on the one playing with the clouds.
 
roncachamp said:
Visibility is just part of the VFR requirements, one must also maintain not less than the minimum required distance from clouds. It's a moot point, however, when one is within clouds one has neither the required visibility nor the required distance from clouds.
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..and that's the point... some "clouds" are wispy deals that are no more an obstruction to visibility than a summer haze.
 
AdamZ said:
Ya know Dan I can't recall. It was in an area between RDG and LNS where there are a good amount of NORDO planes. Come to think of it I think they did call traffic for another plane but we were IMC. I don't recall any calls on the one playing with the clouds.
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Hmmm... I've had a few times where I've had to let ATC know I was IMC so I could not do the see and avoid thing, but it's rare they don't call out traffic when it's close enough to see anywhere in PA. Near BWI, you have to be able to read the In Flight Magazine on the Transport before they call it traffic.
 
At first glace, I thought y'all were overreacting. Then I saw 5:08-5:21. That is IMC penetration.
 
Here's some clouds that, although wispy and you could see through them, you don't want to fly through:
4001183209_e78bbf87ca.jpg


They are full of sulfuric acid from a volcano- not good for the plane or you. A zoom lens made them look really close.
 
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