Vehicle Towing advice

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
So - I bought a Toy Hauler. I'm buying a tow vehicle that isn't my garbaged up 1981 F350. Seeing the hauling capacities is blowing my mind, especially on the newer Dodge Ram 1500s.

So here's the question - how close to GCWR is too close? Obviously, I won't exceed it, but I'm not sure if getting close is a bad idea either.

Good news is that I have an anti-sway hitch, so sway is not as much of a concern.

To give specific numbers, I am looking at a Truck that has a GCWR of 14,000lbs, with a curb weight of 5,340lbs. I want to tow about 8000lbs. Doing the calcuation:

GCWR-Curb Weight - My fat ass = 8,360lbs. That leaves about 360lbs beyond what I'm towing.
 
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Your hauler wont be as "happy" close to gross. It will pull it and not break down, but generally speaking, you want a little more truck than what you are pulling. IF a 1/2 ton is right at gross, get a 3/4. You will get a beefier suspension, better gearing and usually a larger ring/pinion and a more sturdy transmission. That usually also comes with oil/transmission coolers and electric brake controllers (at least with new Fords).
 
SkyHog said:
So - I bought a Toy Hauler. I'm buying a tow vehicle that isn't my garbaged up 1981 F350. Seeing the hauling capacities is blowing my mind, especially on the newer Dodge Ram 1500s.

So here's the question - how close to GCWR is too close? Obviously, I won't exceed it, but I'm not sure if getting close is a bad idea either.

Good news is that I have an anti-sway hitch, so sway is not as much of a concern.
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Four things need to be satisfied to safely tow:

1.) Weight of the tow vehicle, passengers, cargo, and trailer tongue weight must be within the GVWR of the tow vehicle

2.) The tow vehicle/trailer combo must be within the GCVWR as specified.

3.) If the tow vehicle has a separate trailer tow weight rating, that must not be exceeded.

4.) If the tow vehicle has a trailer frontal square foot area rating, that must not be exceeded.

Where most get tripped up is exceeding the GVWR of the tow vehicle.
 
Living up here man I wouldn't go with a half ton, and depending on your hauler would go 3/4 or 1ton diesel.
I don't know about the dodge half ton diesel they were talking about for awhile. Maybe that's what you're looking at already.

climbing west bound will be night and day different.
 
I've towed stuff for many many years. I've gone right to the GW limit more than once.

It's not really about the machinery but far more about the driver. If the brakes are nominal it's about how the driver handles the rig. obviously, leave more room for braking, don't get in a rush, allow for bad road conditions, accelerate slowly. Some trucks have requirements for using a lower towing gear when the weight is over xxxx Lbs. That's to save the OD gear and keep it cool.

By all means get the factory towing kit. I got that on my Dodge Ram 1500 and it's a sweet setup.

Edit: My Ram 1500 with a weight dist hitch has hauled my 28' cruiser on an Al trailer all over the western US. trailer all up towing weight is 7881Lbs. With inside stuff and gas that put me at 13991. I went over CO Hwy 24 to Hwy 50 west, and Salida pass. You won't be going fast, but it'll do it. Downhill is the hard part.
 
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SkyHog said:
So - I bought a Toy Hauler. I'm buying a tow vehicle that isn't my garbaged up 1981 F350. Seeing the hauling capacities is blowing my mind, especially on the newer Dodge Ram 1500s.

So here's the question - how close to GCWR is too close? Obviously, I won't exceed it, but I'm not sure if getting close is a bad idea either.

Good news is that I have an anti-sway hitch, so sway is not as much of a concern.

To give specific numbers, I am looking at a Truck that has a GCWR of 14,000lbs, with a curb weight of 5,340lbs. I want to tow about 8000lbs. Doing the calcuation:

GCWR-Curb Weight - My fat ass = 8,360lbs. That leaves about 360lbs beyond what I'm towing.
Click to expand...

3/4 ton (25/250/2500...series) is what you are looking for, if it's a bumper pull hitch you want a set of equalized bars since toy haulers tend to have an aft CG, and those suckers really help stabilize any swing issues. I towed about everything in the way of R/V trailers with a 97 Dodge Cummins 5.9 2500 with single wheels on the back (as well as my hay trailer I made from a 50x12 mobile home chassis) and it never had a complaint.
 
docmirror said:
Edit: My Ram 1500 with a weight dist hitch has hauled my 28' cruiser on an Al trailer all over the western US. trailer all up towing weight is 7881Lbs. With inside stuff and gas that put me at 13991. I went over CO Hwy 24 to Hwy 50 west, and Salida pass. You won't be going fast, but it'll do it. Downhill is the hard part.
Click to expand...

you did it once, he'll do it often. It's better to have the extra capacity when big rocks are involved.
 
Henning said:
3/4 ton (25/250/2500...series) is what you are looking for, if it's a bumper pull hitch you want a set of equalized bars since toy haulers tend to have an aft CG, and those suckers really help stabilize any swing issues. I towed about everything in the way of R/V trailers with a 97 Dodge Cummins 5.9 2500 with single wheels on the back (as well as my hay trailer I made from a 50x12 mobile home chassis) and it never had a complaint.
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It is a frame mounted, factory installed hitch. The 3/4 tons are a bit out of my price range for now, except for one used F-250 that is iffy on loading the kiddos in the back seat (it is not a crew cab, only extended cab).

The high towing capacity of the newer Ram 1500s is what got my curiosity piqued. Seems like a lot of truck for not much money.

The empty weight of the trailer is about 5700lbs, but with full water tank (100 gallons) and my racecar (1,000lbs), plus gear and the black tank probably having a few pounds of turds and **** in it, I am estimating about 8,000lbs.
 
PeeGee said:
that's the problem, you did it once, he'll do it often. It's better to have the extra capacity when big rocks are involved.
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This is true - I'll be doing it every weekend during Race Season, and then a few times for fun with the family at campgrounds.

Longest trips will be a few hundred miles to Wyoming and Kansas.
 
SkyHog said:
It is a frame mounted, factory installed hitch. The 3/4 tons are a bit out of my price range for now, except for one used F-250 that is iffy on loading the kiddos in the back seat (it is not a crew cab, only extended cab).
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I had a f250 6.0 diesel super cab. Don't get a super cab, get a 4 door. Those little wannabe crewcab doors suck.
Truck was otherwise OK.
 
PeeGee said:
you did it once, he'll do it often. It's better to have the extra capacity when big rocks are involved.
Click to expand...

No sir. I have a home on hwy 24 west of Co Springs, and Lake Powell is where I boat. I don't do it 'once'. I put new Dodge factory brakes and good tires on the truck, and I'm doing fine. The mfg puts a limit on the tow weight and combined for a reason, and I tow to that mfg limit.
 
SkyHog said:
It is a frame mounted, factory installed hitch. The 3/4 tons are a bit out of my price range for now, except for one used F-250 that is iffy on loading the kiddos in the back seat (it is not a crew cab, only extended cab).

The high towing capacity of the newer Ram 1500s is what got my curiosity piqued. Seems like a lot of truck for not much money.

The empty weight of the trailer is about 5700lbs, but with full water tank (100 gallons) and my racecar (1,000lbs), plus gear and the black tank probably having a few pounds of turds and **** in it, I am estimating about 8,000lbs.
Click to expand...

That still counts as "bumper pull", the other common options being fifth wheel and gooseneck. The two things typically lacking on 1/2 tons is sway bar size and no floater hubs on the rear axle.
 
Henning said:
3/4 ton (25/250/2500...series) is what you are looking for, if it's a bumper pull hitch you want a set of equalized bars since toy haulers tend to have an aft CG, and those suckers really help stabilize any swing issues. I towed about everything in the way of R/V trailers with a 97 Dodge Cummins 5.9 2500 with single wheels on the back (as well as my hay trailer I made from a 50x12 mobile home chassis) and it never had a complaint.
Click to expand...
I used to be pretty anti bumper tow but towed a similar rig to what he's buying a bit ago and with the weight bars and anti sway... it was alright. I didn't hit any big wind or anything though.
 
PeeGee said:
I used to be pretty anti bumper tow but towed a similar rig to what he's buying a bit ago and with the weight bars and anti sway... it was alright. I didn't hit any big wind or anything though.
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Yep, as long as you have the bars, bumper pulls are okay. A heavy one without them though can get really tiring.
 
If you were my customer, I would strongly suggest a 3/4 ton truck, some 1/2 tons have the "capacity" but I don't think you'd be happy with how it handled or how it braked. :eek: If you are looking at a Ford, I would recommend a 2008 or newer if you are going diesel, they just hold up better. Of course, good electric brakes are a must on something like this. ;)
Edit, I just reread your OP and the trailer is 8000lbs, so a well equipped 1/2 ton will pull it, for some reason I thought it was a heavier trailer. I would still prefer a 3/4 ton, but you can do it with a 1/2 ton, just don't be in a hurry up and down the big hills. :D
 
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The newer half tons have impressive towing capacity. If the suspension proves to be taxed add some lift bags. Power is power and the diesels win the heavy pull contest but for my own 7000# trailer I bailed after 10 years with Duramaxes and went back to gas. It works well. My own truck is a HD 3/4 ton but I have friends with similar trailers and half tons and they seem to work fine. My trailers have always used 2 5/16" balls on 2" receiver hitches. No levelers or sway equipment necessary.
 
Stewartb said:
The newer half tons have impressive towing capacity. If the suspension proves to be taxed add some lift bags. Power is power and the diesels win the heavy pull contest but for my own 7000# trailer I bailed after 10 years with Duramaxes and went back to gas. It works well. My own truck is a HD 3/4 ton but I have friends with similar trailers and half tons and they seem to work fine. My trailers have always used 2 5/16" balls on 2" receiver hitches. No levelers or sway equipment necessary.
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The problem isn't usually spring capacity. Adding a set of bigger sway bars usually does more good, but you still have the axle bearing issue.
 
Can't say I can recommend the 1/2 in any brand for that load more than a handful of times per year. This is definitely 3/4 ton territory when being done on a frequent basis and so close to GCWR on a 1/2 ton.

My '08 F-150 Screw handles 6-7Klbs trailers just fine although I'd prefer to have a 4.10 gear ratio when doing so as opposed to the 3.55LS I have in it. At 8Klbs, it'd be yanking the truck all over the place with any sort of wind here in the flatlands, much less having to negotiate downhill grades around mountains. Find an F-250/Chevy 2500/ Dodge 2500 to do the work.

If this were a daily driver I'd suggest getting a more modern model, but as far as Fords go the 7.3L, 6.0L, 6.4L, 6.7L will all do the job just fine. Same goes for most of the GM/Dodge group.
 
you'll know what "too much" is when you see it. Here's an example:
 

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SoonerAviator said:
If this were a daily driver I'd suggest getting a more modern model, but as far as Fords go the 7.3L, 6.0L, 6.4L, 6.7L will all do the job just fine. Same goes for most of the GM/Dodge group.
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they all have occasional issues. My 6.0 ford was fine but had all the work done to make it fine.
 
SkyHog said:
It is a frame mounted, factory installed hitch. The 3/4 tons are a bit out of my price range for now, except for one used F-250 that is iffy on loading the kiddos in the back seat (it is not a crew cab, only extended cab).

The high towing capacity of the newer Ram 1500s is what got my curiosity piqued. Seems like a lot of truck for not much money.

The empty weight of the trailer is about 5700lbs, but with full water tank (100 gallons) and my racecar (1,000lbs), plus gear and the black tank probably having a few pounds of turds and **** in it, I am estimating about 8,000lbs.
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????????

What are ya racing ?????

and where in Wyoming is there tracks ?

Drags in Douglas and dirt circle in Rock Springs..:dunno:
 
N801BH said:
????????

What are ya racing ?????

and where in Wyoming is there tracks ?

Drags in Douglas and dirt circle in Rock Springs..:dunno:
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Glenrock, WY. Valentine Speedway - coming up over Father's Day weekend. Should be a blast - come on out! I'll buy ya a beverage of your choice.

As for what I'm racing:
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Henning said:
Are you looking just to haul to local tracks, or long range?
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Mostly local tracks. 1-2.5 hour drive mostly. Every once in a while it is a 5 hour drive.

edit: and by every once in a while, I mean like 2 times a year. This year it is Glenrock, WY and someplace in Kansas
 
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For occasional use I'd be ok with a half ton pulling 8000#. If I was going to use it in that role more than just occasionally over relatively short trips I'd really rather have a 3/4 ton.
 
Half ton truck towing ratings
Chevy. 12,000#
Ford 12,200#
Dodge 10,600#
Toyota 10,200#

I ain't the sharpest math whiz in town but all them are rated well over 8,000# and should do the job just fine if properly equipped.
 
Stewartb said:
Half ton truck towing ratings
Chevy. 12,000#
Ford 12,200#
Dodge 10,600#
Toyota 10,200#

I ain't the sharpest math whiz in town but all them are rated well over 8,000# and should do the job just fine if properly equipped.
Click to expand...

The problem is, those numbers are GCWR's which means you still need to add the weight of the truck and its occupants/cargo which is usually 6Klbs+ on modern 1/2 tons. Also need to take into account bumper vs 5th wheel towing and configuration limitations.
 
Look for one of these, Diesel, 2X4, 5.9, no DEF. They will pull much more than you need, and give you 19+/- MPG.

I had one for 157,000 miles Wish I had it back. lower miles are better, but at a 100k still lots of miles left in them.

I never was a Dodge freak, until I hooked ours to a 14,000# trailer and towed it to eastern Wa. over the north Cascade passes. No sway bars, no WDH, just a ball, and safety chains, and electric brakes on the trailer.

When loaded and rigged correctly the truck and trailer will set level, Weight distribution hitches are for distributing trailer tongue weight to the front wheels of the truck. (TV), and sway bars will not help in high winds, they simply help the trailer upset the truck. Many of the WDH will have self centering devices that make life in the right lane easier.

the big deal about towing with a light weight truck, you are at the mercy of 1 electrical connection for trailer brakes, if it fails in traffic, having a small truck can ruin your day.

http://skagit.craigslist.org/ctd/5016367936.html
 
Stewartb said:
Half ton truck towing ratings
Chevy. 12,000#
Ford 12,200#
Dodge 10,600#
Toyota 10,200#

I ain't the sharpest math whiz in town but all them are rated well over 8,000# and should do the job just fine if properly equipped.
Click to expand...

I am not sure where you're getting those numbers from. Are you confusing GCWR with Towing Capacity? Because the 2015 numbers, assuming the lowest Axle Ratio and the fewest features are:

Chevy: 9500 lbs
Ford: 9100 lbs
Dodge: 11,870 lbs
Toyota: 10,500 lbs

In my case, however, I am looking at 2011 and 2012 models with the 3.55 rear axle ratio, which have considerably less towing capacity - around 8600 or 9300 depending on the year and options.

Interestingly enough, my 1981 F350 only tows about 7500lbs IIRC.
 
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PeeGee said:
they all have occasional issues. My 6.0 ford was fine but had all the work done to make it fine.
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Oh no doubt, blowing the heads off was one of the major problems with the 6.0L, but once they are studded it solves most of the problem. Every engine has its quirks, but if this was just a tow vehicle used a 10-20 trips per year I don't think the engine choice would be a huge factor. Most guys have worked out the kinks in the first 100-150K miles if buying used. Only downside to the newer stuff is all of the emissions/regen urea junk.
 
Stewartb said:
Half ton truck towing ratings
Chevy. 12,000#
Ford 12,200#
Dodge 10,600#
Toyota 10,200#

I ain't the sharpest math whiz in town but all them are rated well over 8,000# and should do the job just fine if properly equipped.
Click to expand...


those numbers aren't worth SHi-, until you try settling the insurance claim.

Towing is all about driving, but you best have the right equipment to start.

Did we ever get told the type of trailer toy hauler? 5ver? tag along?
 
Tom-D said:
those numbers aren't worth SHi-, until you try settling the insurance claim.

Towing is all about driving, but you best have the right equipment to start.

Did we ever get told the type of trailer toy hauler? 5ver? tag along?
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Ah - its a Rage'n 30 footer. Picture:
00V0V_9FNYGy4jiuQ_600x450.jpg
 
Here is the page to ask these questions. join it's worth the admission for the insurance and other stuff RVers need.

http://forums.woodalls.com
 
SkyHog said:
Mostly local tracks. 1-2.5 hour drive mostly. Every once in a while it is a 5 hour drive.

edit: and by every once in a while, I mean like 2 times a year. This year it is Glenrock, WY and someplace in Kansas
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Kool.... Winged Sprinters........

Got one of those motors in my plane....:):):):)..

Where is the closest airport ? Or maybe I can land on the backstretch...;);)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
 
SkyHog said:
Ah - its a Rage'n 30 footer. Picture:
00V0V_9FNYGy4jiuQ_600x450.jpg
Click to expand...

We pulled a Terry just about that size with our 2002, 2500, 2X4 Diesel. Great combo. never needed the extra equipment, simply back up, hook up, plug in the lights and go.
 
N801BH said:
Kool.... Winged Sprinters........

Got one of those motors in my plane....:):):):)..

Where is the closest airport ? Or maybe I can land on the backstretch...;);)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
Click to expand...

The heat race immediately following that one is the Dwarf Cars, which we run.

Here's us racing (my in the old paint scheme, which was black and orange. Easy to spot me, I was at the rear the whole time as it was my first race) at the home track in Calhan:
 
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