Vegan jerky- any takers???

[Cooter]

Shep bases his personal opinion on a complete lack of experience. I'll need to check on my pickles when I get home. Gotta keep a close eye on the fermentation process.

I make pickles also. And sauerkraut, which I use to stuff the annual Christmas goose. And beer, really good beer.
I tried to make kimchi, once. I think it ended up in a federal toxic waste site. Not my finest work, and I still don't understand what went wrong.

Yeah, I make sauerkraut, but I don't brew beer. Just a different process. Were I to brew I'd probably distill as well. I've made utterly delicious kimchi, in fact when my pickles are done I'll probably sort up for a batch. Don't know what went wrong with yours. My kimchi would probably be unrecognizable to a Korean, but it is spicy, garlicky and yummy.

@Shepherd , that was one heck of a turn of the conversation. I'm going to have to study your tactics,
I'm still trying to figure out what just happened!

 

[steingar]

Conversations go like that. I agree it was a turn, since jerky isn't normally fermented. I did pickle eggs twice. Once it worked, once it didn't. The time it didn't the clean up was so distasteful I decided not to do it again. A pity, pickled eggs are really, really good.

 

[azblackbird]

Conversations go like that. I agree it was a turn, since jerky isn't normally fermented. I did pickle eggs twice. Once it worked, once it didn't. The time it didn't the clean up was so distasteful I decided not to do it again. A pity, pickled eggs are really, really good.

Funny you should mention pickled eggs. I've got a gallon jar full in the fridge right now pickling. Garlic and jalapeño.

 

[brian]]

Never been "into" pickled eggs.

Now picked Okra ... yea buddy!

Add in a little heat to get things going!

So - any meat eaters tried pickled pigs feet? Yea - me either ...

 

[Zeldman]

Pickled egg, please....

 

[azblackbird]

So - any meat eaters tried pickled pigs feet? Yea - me either ...

I love pickled pigs feet and smoked hocks. Just did a crock full of pinto beans last night with smoked hocks. Gives the beans and all the fixens an awesome flavor.

I've never tried pickled Okra... I may have to pick up a jar and give it a shot.

 

[Flocker]

I recently watched a documentary on Netflix called "What the Health!?" Has anyone else seen it? Thoughts?

 

[Rushie]

Conversations go like that. I agree it was a turn, since jerky isn't normally fermented. I did pickle eggs twice. Once it worked, once it didn't. The time it didn't the clean up was so distasteful I decided not to do it again. A pity, pickled eggs are really, really good.

I have pickled quail eggs in the fridge right now. Bought them at the local store that sells stuff made around here I guess. I'm going to have to acquire a taste for them. They're not bad but very hot with jalapeño, a bit too hot for me. I bought fresh quail eggs once, I supposedly have a sensitivity to chicken eggs so I was trying to find an alternative. Tried duck eggs too. Love them! The quail eggs were just too small to be practical for cooking. But the pickled ones are nice bite size.

 

[Rushie]

I recently watched a documentary on Netflix called "What the Health!?" Has anyone else seen it? Thoughts?

Just found it and watched the opener. WOW! "What in particular is the connection between diet and diabetes?"

Answer: "I'm not gonna get into that."

Very intriguing, what is he afraid to say?? I'll be watching the rest of it tonight.

PS edit: well I watched it. It's just a bunch of anti- meat propaganda made by animal rights activists. Disappointing. They did make some very true statements. For example: All the tests and treatments for heart disease are damage control, not addressing the cause. True! Diet is definitely behind the diabetes epidemic. True! Processed foods are a problem. True! But then they go completely astray. I cannot put it any better than this reviewer, who is herself a vegan:

https://www.vegan.com/posts/vegan-dietitian-review-what-the-health/

 

[steingar]

I have pickled quail eggs in the fridge right now. Bought them at the local store that sells stuff made around here I guess. I'm going to have to acquire a taste for them. They're not bad but very hot with jalapeño, a bit too hot for me. I bought fresh quail eggs once, I supposedly have a sensitivity to chicken eggs so I was trying to find an alternative. Tried duck eggs too. Love them! The quail eggs were just too small to be practical for cooking. But the pickled ones are nice bite size.

The eggs you have are probably vinegar pickles. Most pickled eggs are. The problem with vinegar pickled eggs is the acid in the brine chemically cooks the eggs, making them hard and rubbery over time. My pickled eggs were anything but. I have a compromise, where I put hard boiled eggs in the brine of my fermented pickles. This also works extremely well, as the eggs stay soft but pick up all the wonderful pickle flavors. Alas, the brines only work 2 or 3 times before they are spent.

 

[Cooter]

Conversations go like that. I agree it was a turn, since jerky isn't normally fermented. I did pickle eggs twice. Once it worked, once it didn't. The time it didn't the clean up was so distasteful I decided not to do it again. A pity, pickled eggs are really, really good.

I've tried them once and didn't care for them. I'd give it another shot because I like just about anything pickled. I've been trying to find pickled bologna, I might have to make my own since it's hard to find. It'd be a new experience for me.

 

[Rushie]

The eggs you have are probably vinegar pickles. Most pickled eggs are. The problem with vinegar pickled eggs is the acid in the brine chemically cooks the eggs, making them hard and rubbery over time. My pickled eggs were anything but. I have a compromise, where I put hard boiled eggs in the brine of my fermented pickles. This also works extremely well, as the eggs stay soft but pick up all the wonderful pickle flavors. Alas, the brines only work 2 or 3 times before they are spent.

Yes, rubbery! Well I've learned something new, I guess I need to find (or try to make) fermented pickled eggs before I decide I don't like them.

 

[Zeldman]

I don't drink that much anymore to try pickled eggs....

 

[Zeldman]

Guess what I am NOT having for dinner......

 

[Clark1961]

Guess what I am NOT having for dinner......

Skip the potato salad. Stick with the proteins.

 

[steingar]

I've tried them once and didn't care for them. I'd give it another shot because I like just about anything pickled. I've been trying to find pickled bologna, I might have to make my own since it's hard to find. It'd be a new experience for me.

I thought bologna was a pickled meat. I've never heard of fermenting meat, just salting and spicing. Then again, I don't know everything.

Yes, rubbery! Well I've learned something new, I guess I need to find (or try to make) fermented pickled eggs before I decide I don't like them.

Like I said, the batch that worked was scrumptious. I think I just submerged hard boiled eggs in as much pickle brine as I could gather, diluted in brine to cover. Why the second batch went bad instead of fermenting I'll never know, but boy was it unpleasant.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I thought bologna was a pickled meat. I've never heard of fermenting meat, just salting and spicing. Then again, I don't know everything.

Like I said, the batch that worked was scrumptious. I think I just submerged hard boiled eggs in as much pickle brine as I could gather, diluted in brine to cover. Why the second batch went bad instead of fermenting I'll never know, but boy was it unpleasant.

Meat, generally sausages, is sometimes fermented with bacteria that produce lactic acid which inhibits other bacteria that would ruin the meat. There are other organisms involved too. Even if not processed with these bacteria, many foods contain lactic acid both to reduce spoilage and for flavor.
Here's a link that has a quick overview of some of the organisms involved: https://academic.oup.com/femsre/art...teria-in-meat-fermentation?redirectedFrom=PDF

 

[steingar]

Meat, generally sausages, is sometimes fermented with bacteria that produce lactic acid which inhibits other bacteria that would ruin the meat. There are other organisms involved too. Even if not processed with these bacteria, many foods contain lactic acid both to reduce spoilage and for flavor.
Here's a link that has a quick overview of some of the organisms involved: https://academic.oup.com/femsre/art...teria-in-meat-fermentation?redirectedFrom=PDF

Well I learn something new today, cool!

 

[Rushie]

Like I said, the batch that worked was scrumptious. I think I just submerged hard boiled eggs in as much pickle brine as I could gather, diluted in brine to cover. Why the second batch went bad instead of fermenting I'll never know, but boy was it unpleasant.

Yes cooking can be a mysterious art. I just perfected (or thought I did) pecan meringues in anticipation of making a bunch to give away at Christmas. I finished a batch that finally hit everything perfectly, sweet but not too sweet, fresh toasty pecans, the right delicate crunch, looked beautiful. So I said, "Got it!" So a few days later I decided to double the ingredients and make a bunch more just to enjoy. It whipped up nicely, I measured everything right, did everything exactly the same, baked them same temperature same amount of time. They looked great.

Picked one up and bit into it... the thing exploded in my face, powdered meringue flying onto the floor, and a center of chewy mush. Nothing like the crisp, evenly baked ones I'd made before. Tasted terrible and had horrible texture. They were all that way. I had to throw them out.

I've no idea what went wrong. I brought the egg whites to room temperature just the same, doubled all ingredients exactly. Only difference is I whipped up twice as much in the bowl but that shouldn't matter. I whipped it to the same stiff peaks. Dropped the same size spoonfuls onto the same parchment paper.

The only thing I can figure is maybe the humidity was different that day. I think meringues can be affected by that. If so the whole idea is trash. I'm not wasting two dozen yolks to make these things for all my neighbors if I can't be sure they'll bake right.

Just going to buy Mrs. Hanes Moravian cookies again.

 

[steingar]

Yes cooking can be a mysterious art. I just perfected (or thought I did) pecan meringues in anticipation of making a bunch to give away at Christmas. I finished a batch that finally hit everything perfectly, sweet but not too sweet, fresh toasty pecans, the right delicate crunch, looked beautiful. So I said, "Got it!" So a few days later I decided to double the ingredients and make a bunch more just to enjoy. It whipped up nicely, I measured everything right, did everything exactly the same, baked them same temperature same amount of time. They looked great.

Picked one up and bit into it... the thing exploded in my face, powdered meringue flying onto the floor, and a center of chewy mush. Nothing like the crisp, evenly baked ones I'd made before. Tasted terrible and had horrible texture. They were all that way. I had to throw them out.

I've no idea what went wrong. I brought the egg whites to room temperature just the same, doubled all ingredients exactly. Only difference is I whipped up twice as much in the bowl but that shouldn't matter. I whipped it to the same stiff peaks. Dropped the same size spoonfuls onto the same parchment paper.

The only thing I can figure is maybe the humidity was different that day. I think meringues can be affected by that. If so the whole idea is trash. I'm not wasting two dozen yolks to make these things for all my neighbors if I can't be sure they'll bake right.

Just going to buy Mrs. Hanes Moravian cookies again.

Meringues depend upon physical mixing for their consistency. The one variable you changed was that. A 2 X volume mixes differently than a 1 X volume, you probably inadvertently mixed them unevenly. Easy to do. There are candies that depend on ambient humidity due to the crystallization properties of sucrose. I suspect meringues depend on humidity, sucrose readily absorbs water out of the atmosphere. But that sort of sensitivity will affect texture, not consistency. Odds are you had some white still liquid in the middle of your meringue. I've seen it in ones I've made. That's where the liquid comes from.
You're quite the cook if you can turn those out. Very tricky candies.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Well I learn something new today, cool!

I limit myself to wine (good way to use excess pears), and beer someday since I can inoculate whatever yeast I want. Do you use starter cultures for your pickles? I have a friend who makes natto from a culture she started from a wild strain and I'd worry about being the first person to have had that.

 

[steingar]

I limit myself to wine (good way to use excess pears), and beer someday since I can inoculate whatever yeast I want. Do you use starter cultures for your pickles? I have a friend who makes natto from a culture she started from a wild strain and I'd worry about being the first person to have had that.

You really don't have to use a starter for most pickled foods, the foods have the bacteria to begin with. I do actually use a starter, in my case a bit of leftover brine from a previous fermentation, to accelerate the fermentation process. Never heard of natto before you mentioned it just now, but sounds like a real pain in the six to make. Sounds like it takes aseptic technique to do, which his something very difficult to achieve in the home kitchen. the Japanese have some very sophisticated microbiology associated with some of their pickles. Then again it sounds yummy, and I'm always up for a challenge. Might have to try that.

I got my sourdough starter from someone here on POA, he claimed it was 300 years old from Italy. It dawned on me that what I was really getting was a starter culture from his area of the US, and what I have now is a starter culture from my area of the US. Everything has yeasts and bacteria, and they'll be introduced unless you use aseptic technique, which I don't. And that's fine, it means that no one outside my area can reproduce my sourdoughs, which is OK by me.

 

[Rushie]

Meringues depend upon physical mixing for their consistency. The one variable you changed was that. A 2 X volume mixes differently than a 1 X volume, you probably inadvertently mixed them unevenly. Easy to do. There are candies that depend on ambient humidity due to the crystallization properties of sucrose. I suspect meringues depend on humidity, sucrose readily absorbs water out of the atmosphere. But that sort of sensitivity will affect texture, not consistency. Odds are you had some white still liquid in the middle of your meringue. I've seen it in ones I've made. That's where the liquid comes from.
You're quite the cook if you can turn those out. Very tricky candies.

It did seem they'd stayed liquid in the middle but I don't get how, I was dropping teaspoonfuls after I'd beaten the whole thing properly, scraping down the sides and all. They would have each had to re-liquify in the middle after I'd dropped them on the sheet.

Well I just found an article that says do not even try to make meringue on humid or rainy days. You are whipping air into the egg white and that air contains moisture. Well that right there might explain where the liquification in the centers came from.

But something else that occurs to me, I might have used a higher beater speed, because of doubling the volume maybe unconsciously I thought I needed to for some reason. Using a high speed may whip it faster but maybe results in a less stable structure. Maybe larger air pockets than if you'd beaten longer on a lower speed. I read that this is true for whipped cream anyway, don't know if it applies to egg whites.

The article also talked about age of the eggs. Fresh ones for more volume, old ones for more stability. The eggs may have come from a different carton although they were all sourced the same (local farmer) they might have been different ages.

I'm still concluding it's too iffy to try to do for Christmas.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

You really don't have to use a starter for most pickled foods, the foods have the bacteria to begin with. I do actually use a starter, in my case a bit of leftover brine from a previous fermentation, to accelerate the fermentation process. Never heard of natto before you mentioned it just now, but sounds like a real pain in the six to make. Sounds like it takes aseptic technique to do, which his something very difficult to achieve in the home kitchen. the Japanese have some very sophisticated microbiology associated with some of their pickles. Then again it sounds yummy, and I'm always up for a challenge. Might have to try that.

I got my sourdough starter from someone here on POA, he claimed it was 300 years old from Italy. It dawned on me that what I was really getting was a starter culture from his area of the US, and what I have now is a starter culture from my area of the US. Everything has yeasts and bacteria, and they'll be introduced unless you use aseptic technique, which I don't. And that's fine, it means that no one outside my area can reproduce my sourdoughs, which is OK by me.

My hat's off to you...my first pickle fermentation would probably grow from the wild bacteria that make slime, though I do understand we have a degree of control over that with the solution we use to cover the vegetables.

 

[steingar]

I just came back from tending to my pickles. Wiped off some nasty looking fungus. One of the cucumbers had escaped the water lock and had surfaced. The surfaced bit had some rot, so I removed it. I cut away the rot and tasted the rest. Only a week into fermentation and they're already scrumptious.

 

[spiderweb]

Because it's true! The majority of greenies/vegans (or whatever they want to call themselves) are totally ignorant of the facts that surround they're so-called adopted lifestyles. I just like to point out their hypocrisy... that's all.

Does that make me evil or mean? Not at the very least. I just point out the facts... nothing more, nothing less.

The problem with this is that in almost everything in life, no one can be 100%.

For example, there is no one who has never told a lie. I suppose, therefore, one can say that every human is a liar. But we still categorize people as generally trustworthy or generally liars. And, of course, there are extremes.

When one becomes a vegan, the point is that one has made a decision to avoid--as best as one can--all animal products. Self-righteous vegans, of course, do not have attractive personalities, and invite ridicule.

The idea is to do one's best, and continually to do research. Then, be happy with who you are, and don't "punch first."

Speaking of hypocrisy, it has been my experience that meat eaters are quite an easy target, especially because they often have not examined their thoughts and actions. This is why I counterpunch when the attack me for not being a "perfect vegan," while they meanwhile hug their dogs and slaughter their cows.

 

[azblackbird]

Speaking of hypocrisy, it has been my experience that meat eaters are quite an easy target, especially because they often have not examined their thoughts and actions. This is why I counterpunch when the attack me for not being a "perfect vegan," while they meanwhile hug their dogs and slaughter their cows.

I wouldn't eat my best friend... would you? I'm sure you have a few plants that you're "besties" with... right? You're not going to eat them are you? Of course not... you're going to talk to them, nurture them, and give them the daily affirmations they need to grow and become productive plants. When they die, you will mourn their loss and you will be sad.

 

[Cooter]

Speaking of hypocrisy, it has been my experience that meat eaters are quite an easy target, especially because they often have not examined their thoughts and actions........ while they meanwhile hug their dogs and slaughter their cows.

How is that hypocritical? I petted my dogs this morning right after I had bacon for breakfast.

I don't see any hypocrisy. Just because I eat some animals doesn't mean I have to eat all animals!

 

[Cooter]

For example, there is no one who has never told a lie. I suppose, therefore, one can say that every human is a liar. But we still categorize people as generally trustworthy or generally liars.

But to make this relevant, it's not about how we generally categorize them, it's about what they claim to be. So if you claim to be something that you aren't, then hypocrite you may well be!

 

[spiderweb]

I wouldn't eat my best friend... would you? I'm sure you have a few plants that you're "besties" with... right? You're not going to eat them are you? Of course not... you're going to talk to them, nurture them, and give them the daily affirmations they need to grow and become productive plants. When they die, you will mourn their loss and you will be sad.

I don't particularly like animals, and certainly am not an "animal lover." Not really a plant lover, either.

But by not eating animals, I at least remove myself from the mental gymnastics meat eaters (ought to) go through when they attempt to make peace with not eating certain animals, simply because they've been taught that they're friendlier and/or cuter than others, which, therefore are fine for killing.

Besides, everyone kills cows and pigs, but never eats dogs or horses right? (Whoops, not true everywhere in the world.)

 

[spiderweb]

But to make this relevant, it's not about how we generally categorize them, it's about what they claim to be. So if you claim to be something that you aren't, then hypocrite you may well be!

I agree--but only if the vegans to which one is referring claim to be 100% perfect in their veganism. NO one is 100% perfect in their anything.

Truthful people sometimes lie, but we still call them trustworthy.
Good pilots sometimes make bad landings, but we still consider them good pilots.
Considerate people are sometimes impolite, but we still think of them as considerate.

But when meat eaters try to "zing" vegans, they point out what is already quite obvious to most of us--it is nearly impossible to be 100% vegan in the 21st century. Duh!

That doesn't make us hypocrites, especially if we are constantly trying to get better, and doing our research. It seems hypocritical to me, and many millions of vegetarians and vegans when "animal lovers" eat animals. How can one be a "lover of animals," yet kill and eat them on a daily basis? I'm glad my friends don't "love" me like that.

 

[azblackbird]

But by not eating animals, I at least remove myself from the mental gymnastics meat eaters (ought to) go through when they attempt to make peace with not eating certain animals, simply because they've been taught that they're friendlier and/or cuter than others, which, therefore are fine for killing.

Same goes for plants. I'm sure you don't eat all plants do you? Naturally some plants are cuter and more friendlier than others... right? Take for instance Roses. If I was a vegan, I wouldn't dream of eating roses. They're just way too pretty to eat. Now beets on the other hand are some ugly looking plants. I'd eat them all day long, just because they're to darn ugly and don't deserve to live.

 

[spiderweb]

Same goes for plants. I'm sure you don't eat all plants do you? Naturally some plants are cuter and more friendlier than others... right? Take for instance Roses. If I was a vegan, I wouldn't dream of eating roses. They're just way too pretty to eat. Now beets on the other hand are some ugly looking plants. I'd eat them all day long, just because they're to darn ugly and don't deserve to live.

True, but not my point. My point was really addressing a certain absolutist view of veganism: "If you are not 100% aware, and if you make even one small slip, then you are a hypocrite."

Also, I am not a hippie. I have no hair, and I voted for Trump, and I'm STILL happy I voted for him.

 

[azblackbird]

True, but not my point. My point was really addressing a certain absolutist view of veganism: "If you are not 100% aware, and if you make even one small slip, then you are a hypocrite."

That's my point! If a person is going to wear that moniker and call themselves a vegan and use animal products, then they're hypocrites. Otherwise they're nothing but vegetarians who have a certain compassion for animals and try to devoid themselves of any animal byproducts.

Look at this way...

How many hemp wearing "meat-eaters" have you ever heard of that broke into a greenhouse in the middle of the night to try and rescue all the tomato or pepper plants from certain death?

On the other hand... how many leather Birkenstock wearing "vegans" have you ever heard of that broke into chicken or rabbit coops in the middle of the night to try and rescue those poor animals from certain death?

I'd venture to say that these wannabe "vegans" fit the exact profile I'm describing... I still can't stop laughing.

 

[brian]]

Um - don't confuse a VEGAN with a PITA a.k.a. Pain In The A... oh wait, PETA - sorry...

In short - A VEGAN likes really good food that is hopefully made from plants. (Raw vegans don't cook it very much.)

I know of a few that are both - VEGAN and PETA. Yea, likely ok people, but not in my circle of friends...

 

[Zeldman]

Look at this way...

How many hemp wearing "meat-eaters" have you ever heard of that broke into a greenhouse in the middle of the night to try and rescue all the tomato or pepper plants from certain death?

Exactly. Everyone complains that tuna fisherman kill the dolphins, but no one complains that the tuna fisherman are killin' the tuna..!!!!

 

[spiderweb]

That's my point! If a person is going to wear that moniker and call themselves a vegan and use animal products, then they're hypocrites. Otherwise they're nothing but vegetarians who have a certain compassion for animals and try to devoid themselves of any animal byproducts.

Look at this way...

How many hemp wearing "meat-eaters" have you ever heard of that broke into a greenhouse in the middle of the night to try and rescue all the tomato or pepper plants from certain death?

On the other hand... how many leather Birkenstock wearing "vegans" have you ever heard of that broke into chicken or rabbit coops in the middle of the night to try and rescue those poor animals from certain death?

I'd venture to say that these wannabe "vegans" fit the exact profile I'm describing... I still can't stop laughing.

I think our views are close, but not exactly the same. I agree with your statement regarding the militant, absolutist vegans who are in your face, and who stage "rescues." Since they essentially are saying they are "100% pure," they therefore invite an extra-scrupulous look at their tactics. I'd be right along with you in scorning them if I saw them wearing sneakers with leather, for example. I'd at least tell them to tone it down, because screaming at people about how superior your lifestyle is, is neither attractive nor convincing.

 

[spiderweb]

Exactly. Everyone complains that tuna fisherman kill the dolphins, but no one complains that the tuna fisherman are killin' the tuna..!!!!

That's right. Dolphins are considered "cute," and perhaps for this reason, meat eaters do not eat that particular sea creature. Thus, while collecting tuna for food--and I am assuming tuna don't need to be slaughtered, since they die when out of water--meat eaters feel "sad" when the cute dolphins are killed. Collateral damage, perhaps?

 

[Clark1961]

That's right. Dolphins are considered "cute," and perhaps for this reason, meat eaters do not eat that particular sea creature. Thus, while collecting tuna for food--and I am assuming tuna don't need to be slaughtered, since they die when out of water--meat eaters feel "sad" when the cute dolphins are killed. Collateral damage, perhaps?

Funny. You are projecting characteristics on mammals and fish then attempting to influence folks based on those projections. It’s food. No ifs, ands, er butts.

 

[spiderweb]

Funny. You are projecting characteristics on mammals and fish then attempting to influence folks based on those projections. It’s food. No ifs, ands, er butts.

You think animals are food, and that's your opinion, that's how you feel, and that's fine for you.

In my opinion (and this is the opinion, by the way, of millions of people who are vegetarians and vegans) animals are NOT "food," and I think it is almost bizarre that anyone would want to eat one.

Furthermore, I am not projecting any characteristics; rather, I am stating what many people feel are those characteristics. For example, many people think dolphins, puppies, and rabbits are "cute." Personally, I don't care what animals look like. The only relevant thing is not to eat them.