Vegan jerky- any takers???

[azblackbird]

The atmosphere contains ~0.4% averaged over the entire volume.

Ahhhh... I get it. So water vapor (very nasty greenhouse gas which contains H2O) constitutes less than .4% of the atmosphere? That's an amazing fact.

 

[mscard88]

I don't understand your complaints. I said the my high BP is, in fact, hereditary. I thought I made that clear when I said that my entire family has that problem. I'm certainly NOT saying persons with hereditary high BP are defective.

And I also don't understand what you don't understand about me getting my medical back. This is what I said: I got "my medical back after having lowered my BP without the need for drugs." The point was not needing the drugs. Why did I not need the drugs? Because I became a much healthier eater than my family.

If there is a way to be healthy without the need for drugs, why not choose that way?

What I meant was usually your regular Doc puts you on something for example, plendil for me for controlling HBP, and issues your medical certificate. In my case it was the same Doc that did both. I was surprised I guess that you had a different experience, that's all.

 

[Shepherd]

Gotta love it when arrogant know-it-alls speak from utter ignorance.

Shep says:
Nope, just personal opinion.
(as he checks the drier to see how his latest batch of beef jerky is doing)

 

[spiderweb]

OMG! That article is so funny I don't even have any words for the ignorance being displayed.

I grew up in a town that has one of the largest cattle slaughter houses in the nation. Believe me... I know where every single part of a bovine goes if it's not going to the supermarket. Even the wastewater is treated and re-used. As for the manure/methane, the majority of that is captured and used to generate electricity and fuel for the feedlots that prep the cattle for slaughter.

Gotta love the "greenies"... always writing and spewing pablum about something they don't have the vaguest clue about. Just like the "anti-gun" crowd. What's worse, is all the sheep that don't know how think for themselves and buy into all that garbage.

Yes, I DO love greenies, and by the way, I lived on a farm for four years, so yes I DO know what I'm talking about.

Just because one wishes to ignore facts does not make them untrue, despite emotions that cause one to wish otherwise. Yes, even if you do not believe in gravity, for example, it does indeed exist.

Since you seem intrinsically to dismiss articles, I'll provide you with a primary source from the FAO. The is about reducing emissions from the livestock sector. What is the current state?

• The livestock sector plays an important role in climate change. It is estimated to emit 7.1 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (CO2-eq) per annum, representing 14.5 percent of all human-induced emissions.
• Beef and cattle milk production account for the majority of emissions, respectively contributing 41 and 19 percent of the sector’s emissions. While pig meat and poultry meat and eggs contribute respectively 9 percent and 8 percent to the sector's emissions.
• The main sources of emissions are: feed production and processing (45 percent of the total – with 9 percent attributable to the expansion of pasture and feed crops into forests), enteric fermentation from ruminants (39 percent), and manure decomposition (10 percent). The remainder is attributable to the processing and transportation of animal products.

http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/resources/en/publications/tackling_climate_change/index.htm

I don't tell anyone to stop drinking milk or eating pork, but the FACTs are that the meat and dairy industry are not without a considerable environmental impact.

 

[spiderweb]

What I meant was usually your regular Doc puts you something for example, controlling your HBP, and issues your medical certificate. In my case it was the same Doc that did both. I was surprised I guess that you had a different experience, that's all.

Fair enough. And that is exactly what my GP wanted to do. I went vegan, increased fruits and vegetables, with an emphasis on fruits and berries, and bingo--BP dropped to normal.

 

[steingar]

Shep says:
Nope, just personal opinion.
(as he checks the drier to see how his latest batch of beef jerky is doing)

Shep bases his personal opinion on a complete lack of experience. I'll need to check on my pickles when I get home. Gotta keep a close eye on the fermentation process.

 

[spiderweb]

That article doesn't really refute what he's saying. Sure, slaughterhouses are a messy business but the animal itself doesn't get tossed in the trash once the meat is taken off the carcass. That article refers to the electricity required to run the plants as "frightening". So it's not really the best place to get the truth.
My only knowledge comes from a local processor, but the entire animal is used. The offal, the hide, the bones, hooves, etc all gets used. Sure there's blood and manure that makes a mess but the animal is not going to waste.

Fair enough. It is a matter of perspective, though. You are saying that most parts of the animal get put to use.

But to a vegan that's like saying, "I just killed a dog; but don't worry--I didn't waste anything. Not only did I eat parts of it, I also crushed its bones into catfood, made gloves out of the fur, and made some beads out of the teeth." If I said this to most dog lovers, it would be offensive. But to a vegan, it makes no difference if the animal in question is a dog, cat, cow, or pig.

 

[Cooter]

It is estimated to emit 7.1 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (CO2-eq) per annum, representing 14.5 percent of all human-induced emissions.

I don't want to interfere with your conversation, but I'm curious. Do you think mankind itself is the biggest harm to the environment? If so, where do you find the balance between hurting the environment and human flourishing? Would it be better if the population was limited to reduce man's footprint?

 

[Cooter]

But to a vegan that's like saying, "I just killed a dog; but don't worry--I didn't waste anything. Not only did I eat parts of it, I also crushed its bones into catfood, made gloves out of the fur, and made some beads out of the teeth." If I said this to most dog lovers, it would be offensive. But to a vegan, it makes no difference if the animal in question is a dog, cat, cow, or pig.

I get that, and I understand that the food (animal processing) industry is a nasty business. I can see why some are repulsed by it. I don't have a problem with Vegans but I agree with AZ that they've chosen a tough path to be faithful to. I just think life has some harsh realities.

 

[azblackbird]

Since you seem intrinsically to dismiss articles, I'll provide you with a primary source from the FAO. The is about reducing emissions from the livestock sector. What is the current state?

• The livestock sector plays an important role in climate change. It is estimated to emit 7.1 gigatonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (CO2-eq) per annum, representing 14.5 percent of all human-induced emissions.
• Beef and cattle milk production account for the majority of emissions, respectively contributing 41 and 19 percent of the sector’s emissions. While pig meat and poultry meat and eggs contribute respectively 9 percent and 8 percent to the sector's emissions.
• The main sources of emissions are: feed production and processing (45 percent of the total – with 9 percent attributable to the expansion of pasture and feed crops into forests), enteric fermentation from ruminants (39 percent), and manure decomposition (10 percent). The remainder is attributable to the processing and transportation of animal products.

That's what I love about the greenies/vegans and their ignorant myopic views. They fail to realize that the increase in CO2 over the past few decades has resulted in record crop harvests (on ever diminishing land resources) for the very food that they so love to eat.

Here's the real killer on greenie/vegan ignorance. If you're a real vegan and poo-poo any animal derived products, then that means you must be in support of oil/gas drilling and production. I guess the "my jeans come from the GAP" crowd don't have a clue that all that pleather and polyester they so love to wear is derived from petroleum products.

If you greenies and vegans really want to prove yourselves, I suggest you lobby congress to allow the widespread growing of hemp. That's one of the most universal plants nature provides, but yet it is still illegal to grow/produce on an economic scale in the majority of our country.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

That's what I love about the greenies/vegans and their ignorant myopic views. They fail to realize that the increase in CO2 over the past few decades has resulted in record crop harvests (on ever diminishing land resources) for the very food that they so love to eat.

Here's the real killer on greenie/vegan ignorance. If you're a real vegan and poo-poo any animal derived products, then that means you must be in support of oil/gas drilling and production. I guess the "my jeans come from the GAP" crowd don't have a clue that all that pleather and polyester they so love to wear is derived from petroleum products.

If you greenies and vegans really want to prove yourselves, I suggest you lobby congress to allow the widespread growing of hemp. That's one of the most universal plants nature provides, but yet it is still illegal to grow/produce on an economic scale in the majority of our country.

You really can't comment properly climate change since you seem rather ignorant yourself.

So which is going to warm the atmosphere more... the 25% of H2O or the 0.0360% trace amount of CO2? You guys picked the wrong gas to make the bad guy. You guys should've picked Argon or something, it sounds more sinister and scary. Of course the welders and light bulb makers might get a little testy.

I really don't care what you believe, my point is you come across like a tool when you are probably nothing of the sort. You seem just as ignorant as the people that you make fun about, and seem to wallow in that ignorance.

 

[azblackbird]

I really don't care what you believe, my point is you come across like a tool when you are probably nothing of the sort. You seem just as ignorant as the people that you make fun about, and seem to wallow in that ignorance.

Ahhh... I see that you're an adamant follower of Saul Alinsky. Can't debate the facts so start tossing ad hominems. Why am I not surprised.

Just for posterity sake here ya go: "At any moment, the atmosphere contains an astounding 37.5 million billion gallons of water, in the invisible vapor phase. This is enough water to cover the entire surface of the Earth (land and ocean) with one inch of rain."

As you'll later note in my posts, I made it clear that I was referring to the totality of the bonded/unbonded molecules when making that statement. Of course you didn't read that far.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Ahhh... I see that you're an adamant follower of Saul Alinsky. Can't debate the facts so start tossing ad hominems. Why am I not surprised.
<SNIP>

You didn't like it did you? BTW, I didn't call you anything. I merely stated that you seemed to act in a particular fashion.

Why, then, do you write stuff like this?

That's what I love about the greenies/vegans and their ignorant myopic views.

I'm not particularly interested in vegan or non-vegan. But I'd prefer a discourse where one isn't calling others names.

 

[spiderweb]

I don't want to interfere with your conversation, but I'm curious. Do you think mankind itself is the biggest harm to the environment? If so, where do you find the balance between hurting the environment and human flourishing? Would it be better if the population was limited to reduce man's footprint?

No, I won't go that far. I will say that mankind has the potential to be BOTH the biggest danger to as well as the best hope for our environment.

 

[spiderweb]

I get that, and I understand that the food (animal processing) industry is a nasty business. I can see why some are repulsed by it. I don't have a problem with Vegans but I agree with AZ that they've chosen a tough path to be faithful to. I just think life has some harsh realities.

Agree with you 100%.

And more than that, I do NOT judge anyone on what they eat or wear. That's just my personal choice. I just punch back when I'm first punched.

 

[spiderweb]

That's what I love about the greenies/vegans and their ignorant myopic views.

Thank you for your love.

Here's the real killer on greenie/vegan ignorance. If you're a real vegan and poo-poo . . .

I think you mean "pooh-pooh," but I actually like your version better.

. . . any animal derived products, then that means you must be in support of oil/gas drilling and production.

Logic?

I guess the "my jeans come from the GAP" crowd don't have a clue that all that pleather and polyester they so love to wear is derived from petroleum products.

Who the hell wears polyester?

If you greenies and vegans really want to prove yourselves,

I don't care if I prove myself to anyone

I suggest you lobby congress to allow the widespread growing of hemp. That's one of the most universal plants nature provides, but yet it is still illegal to grow/produce on an economic scale in the majority of our country.

I like hemp and also cotton.

 

[azblackbird]

Why, then, do you write stuff like this?

Because it's true! The majority of greenies/vegans (or whatever they want to call themselves) are totally ignorant of the facts that surround they're so-called adopted lifestyles. I just like to point out their hypocrisy... that's all.

Does that make me evil or mean? Not at the very least. I just point out the facts... nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Because it's true! The majority of greenies/vegans (or whatever they want to call themselves) are totally ignorant of the facts that surround they're so-called adopted lifestyles. I just like to point out their hypocrisy... that's all.

Does that make me evil or mean? Not at the very least. I just point out the facts... nothing more, nothing less.

That's your opinion only, that they are ignorant of facts. As I said, I really don't care if someone is vegan or not. All I'm asking is a civil discourse.

 

[azblackbird]

Logic?

You have to use some form of petroleum products if you're gonna be a real vegan. That's what I was implying. Steve Jobs had a real dilemma with this issue when he was manufacturing Apple computers. He was a vegan to the truest extent and didn't want any part of an animal involved in the manufacturing process of his computers. He had the plastics involved in the manufacturing reformulated to use petroleum based products only. It cost him a little more, but it gave him peace of mind.

Who the hell wears polyester?

You'd be surprised. Polyesters or synthetic fibers derived from petroleum origins are found in just about every article of clothing produced these days.

I like hemp and also cotton.

If hemp were more widely grown and produced you guys could become real vegans and wouldn't have to rely so much on animal or petroleum byproducts to support your lifestyle.

 

[brian]]

Guess I don't know any real vegan. Just people tired of feeling sick and tired and found the food they were eating was part of the problem.

The vegans I do know just want to cut the cheese, chicken stock and related "chief cheats" as one or more of these causes them issues.

I don't know any of the tree hugging vegans.

 

[azblackbird]

Guess I don't know any real vegan. Just people tired of feeling sick and tired and found the food they were eating was part of the problem.

That's definitely one of the positives of vegan/vegetarianism. I adopt the same philosophies. I eat raw veggies, fruits, and nuts everyday. I also eat my share of lean meats for the protein and fiber. Processed foods are killers. I'm always amazed when I watch people shop in the grocery stores. You can always tell the healthy people. They're carts are usually full of fruits, veggies, turkey, chicken, etc. The unhealthy people... they're usually riding a scooter with their cart full of chips, soda, candy, desserts, TV dinners, etc. etc. I just kind of shake my head and go about my business.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

You have to use some form of petroleum products if you're gonna be a real vegan. That's what I was implying. Steve Jobs had a real dilemma with this issue when he was manufacturing Apple computers. He was a vegan to the truest extent and didn't want any part of an animal involved in the manufacturing process of his computers. He had the plastics involved in the manufacturing reformulated to use petroleum based products only. It cost him a little more, but it gave him peace of mind.


You'd be surprised. Polyesters or synthetic fibers derived from petroleum origins are found in just about every article of clothing produced these days.


If hemp were more widely grown and produced you guys could become real vegans and wouldn't have to rely so much on animal or petroleum byproducts to support your lifestyle.

What's wrong with using petroleum (or coal) for raw materials? (Rhetorical question, I know where @azblackbird stands on it)
Petrochemical feedstocks is a minuscule amount of the petroleum used ( https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_use ).

 

[azblackbird]

What's wrong with using petroleum (or coal) for raw materials?

Well if you're a "greenie" then it goes against all your principles... right? That's part of the hypocrisy that I always like to mock and point out. Same goes for vegans/vegitarians. You're either all in on living the lifestyle or your not. If not, then don't be labeling yourself as such. Just label yourself as somebody who likes to eat healthy, and who has a certain compassion for animals and don't want to eat them. Pretty simple concept actually.

FWIW... I'm not lambasting any one particular person here for their beliefs or lifestyles. My comments/frustrations are more directed at the writers/bloggers etc. of the various media sources who espouse their ignorance on the unsuspecting readers who believe what they read/say is the gospel truth.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Well if you're a "greenie" then it goes against all your principles... right? That's part of the hypocrisy that I always like to mock and point out. Same goes for vegans/vegitarians. You're either all in on living the lifestyle or your not. If not, then don't be labeling yourself as such. Just label yourself as somebody who likes to eat healthy, and who has a certain compassion for animals and don't want to eat them. Pretty simple concept actually.

FWIW... I'm not lambasting any one particular person here for their beliefs or lifestyles. My comments/frustrations are more directed at the writers/bloggers etc. of the various media sources who espouse their ignorance on the unsuspecting readers who believe what they read/say is the gospel truth.

Actually, no. Some people are concerned about the greenhouse gases, but not the use of petrochemicals for production of goods, such as clothes, plastics, vanillin, aspirin, dyes, and a host of other chemicals. As for vegetarians, most of those I met were vegetarians because that's what they ate at home, religious reasons, or for health benefits.

It isn't just black and white, there is a spectrum of "greenies" from those who'd have us live in some imaginary pre-historic lifestyle "in harmony with nature" all the way to those who merely clean a public park occasionally. I really don't know what "principles" one needs to have to be a "greenie". Perhaps you can enlighten us.

 

[azblackbird]

Actually, no. Some people are concerned about the greenhouse gases, but not the use of petrochemicals for production of goods, such as clothes, plastics, vanillin, aspirin, dyes, and a host of other chemicals.

Therein lies the hypocrisy exhibited by the more staunch politically motivated "greenies". They campaign and protest to curtail or eliminate petroleum, mining, fishing, and timber based activities, but yet are perfectly fine with using the products derived from those very activities. That's the definition of hypocrisy in my book, and always deserves a good ridicule.

Is it okay for people to be concerned about those things? Sure it is, and they rightly should be. But when they develop those concerns into a religious fervor, and then try to brainwash everybody else into thinking the same way, that's when I start laughing my ass off at them for their hypocrisy.

As for vegetarians, most of those I met were vegetarians because that's what they ate at home, religious reasons, or for health benefits.

I won't argue with on that one. Same set of circumstances for the vegetarians that I know also.

Vegans on the other hand... I sense some massive brainwashing has been in play on the development of that recent lifestyle, at least here domestically anyways.

50 years ago the word wasn't even in the dictionary.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Therein lies the hypocrisy exhibited by the more staunch politically motivated "greenies". They campaign and protest to curtail or eliminate petroleum, mining, fishing, and timber based activities, but yet are perfectly fine with using the products derived from those very activities. That's the definition of hypocrisy in my book, and always deserves a good ridicule.

Again, what is a "greenie" and what are their principles? You seem to be tarring everyone with the same brush and classing them with the loudest, most vocal, most obnoxious groups.

Some of your comments make as much sense as this: Conservatives are people who look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all.

We both know that statement isn't correct.

Vegans on the other hand... I sense some massive brainwashing has been in play on the development of that recent lifestyle, at least here domestically anyways.

50 years ago the word wasn't even in the dictionary.

Term was coined in 1944 (Donald Watson), so it has been around longer than 50 years. Even so, how long the term has existed is really part of a non sequitur. Shakespeare (or whoever wrote those plays) coined a lot of words. I otherwise tend to agree about many vegans otherwise don't look beyond the superficial "I don't eat meat".

 

[Shepherd]

Shep bases his personal opinion on a complete lack of experience. I'll need to check on my pickles when I get home. Gotta keep a close eye on the fermentation process.

I make pickles also. And sauerkraut, which I use to stuff the annual Christmas goose. And beer, really good beer.
I tried to make kimchi, once. I think it ended up in a federal toxic waste site. Not my finest work, and I still don't understand what went wrong.

 

[azblackbird]

Again, what is a "greenie" and what are their principles? You seem to be tarring everyone with the same brush and classing them with the loudest, most vocal, most obnoxious groups.

Those vocal loud obnoxious groups are the ones who are responsible for the brainwashing of the masses. So yes, those would be the one's I'm ridiculing or "tarring" the most. As for the parrots (the general masses) who repeat what they've read or been told by those groups, I don't hold it against them, as they don't know what they don't know.

Some of your comments make as much sense as this: Conservatives are people who look on every new theory as a danger, every innovation as a toilsome trouble, every social advance as a first step toward revolution, and that they may absolutely refuse to move at all.

We both know that statement isn't correct.

Actually that statement is somewhat true. That's why conservatives are called conservatives. They don't jump just because somebody says jump, much like the other party does so frequently. They like to take their time and evaluate things rather than run head long into something that most often later turns out to be a disaster. And yes, a lot of conservatives have the philosophy of "if it's not broke, why fix it", thus the reason why many refuse to budge on various matters.

I otherwise tend to agree about many vegans otherwise don't look beyond the superficial "I don't eat meat".

That's my point. Most vegans have mislabeled themselves, when in a actuality they're just plain 'ole vegetarians who don't eat meat, eggs, dairy products, etc. and feel some compassion for the poor animals who are slaughtered. They don't live the true vegan lifestyle of washing their hands entirely of all animal derived products. Steve Jobs was the consummate vegan.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Actually that statement is somewhat true. That's why conservatives are called conservatives. They don't jump just because somebody says jump, much like the other party does so frequently. They like to take their time and evaluate things rather than run head long into something that most often later turns out to be a disaster. And yes, a lot of conservatives have the philosophy of "if it's not broke, why fix it", thus the reason why many refuse to budge on various matters.

What's the "other party"?
And what's the party that isn't the "other party"?

 

[steingar]

I make pickles also. And sauerkraut, which I use to stuff the annual Christmas goose. And beer, really good beer.
I tried to make kimchi, once. I think it ended up in a federal toxic waste site. Not my finest work, and I still don't understand what went wrong.

Yeah, I make sauerkraut, but I don't brew beer. Just a different process. Were I to brew I'd probably distill as well. I've made utterly delicious kimchi, in fact when my pickles are done I'll probably sort up for a batch. Don't know what went wrong with yours. My kimchi would probably be unrecognizable to a Korean, but it is spicy, garlicky and yummy.

 

[Rushie]

I make pickles also. And sauerkraut, which I use to stuff the annual Christmas goose. And beer, really good beer.
I tried to make kimchi, once. I think it ended up in a federal toxic waste site. Not my finest work, and I still don't understand what went wrong.

My mother used to make pickles. Unfortunately I didn't learn that particular thing from her. She'd can all sorts of other stuff from her garden too and would always kick us all out of the kitchen when she was doing it.

 

[azblackbird]

What's the "other party"?

That one would be the "my electricity comes from a wall socket" party

And what's the party that isn't the "other party"?

That one would be the "stay the f**k out of my life, and I'll stay the f**k out of yours" party.

 

[brian]]

???

Started this thread in hopes of giving a few of us some ideas on how to stay in the left seat a little longer. Since it is going political and likely to get locked ...


I got over my party affiliation back in the 90's. I was the life long Republican and my wife was the life long Democrat. Long story, but the Republican Party was making in roads in Arkansas and was looking for people behind the scenes to help republican candidates navigate an election and all the other elected official stuff. Seemed they liked my wife - even though she was a democrat. Strategy worked as Arkansas is now a red state.

Lots of behind the scenes conversations I could post as "the husband" watching everything unfold. This includes seeing a number of Democrats become Republicans - just to get elected. But as far as being "sold" that one party or way of thinking is the be-all, end-all of the conversation? Na. My only issue these days is it seems we get to pick the style of news we want to see and I've seen too many that won't listen to the other side (think Fox, MSNBC, Huffington Post, Breightbart, etc.). Instead they listen to the filtered explanation of what the other side is saying through their selected news outlet.

It's pretty amazing to find out "they" are actually "us"...

By the way - I'm still registered Republican, but consider myself an independent.

 

[mscard88]

I tried to make kimchi, once. I think it ended up in a federal toxic waste site. Not my finest work, and I still don't understand what went wrong.

chi wa

Was stationed at Osan and I never develop a taste for kimchi. Summer kimchi, to me, was a little better than the winter kimchi. Everything else there I liked, just not kimchi.

 

[Rushie]

That's definitely one of the positives of vegan/vegetarianism. I adopt the same philosophies. I eat raw veggies, fruits, and nuts everyday. I also eat my share of lean meats for the protein and fiber. Processed foods are killers. I'm always amazed when I watch people shop in the grocery stores. You can always tell the healthy people. They're carts are usually full of fruits, veggies, turkey, chicken, etc. The unhealthy people... they're usually riding a scooter with their cart full of chips, soda, candy, desserts, TV dinners, etc. etc. I just kind of shake my head and go about my business.

This!!! It's the processed food and all the sugar/carbs that are the killers. When I went vegetarian and elimated grains and sugar I lost weight and got healthier. When I went meat only I lost weight and got healthier.

For a while I was into the "paleo" craze but then the more I dug into man's evolutionary past the more I realized you can't even nail that. Were we pure vegetarian in the trees of Africa? Or were we pure carnivore during the ice age after we'd spread to the higher latitudes of Eurasia? The truth is both of course, like all animals our diet evolved to match our environments but basically we are all omnivorous because one of man's great traits is adaptability.

Even after the advent of agriculture and the addition of grains to our diet, the overall benefits outweighed the harm until very recently when advances in food processing morphed most of our food from its natural state into all the crap you refer to in those carts.

I will be in the checkout line at the store behind some 300 pound mama with kids already fat as she unloads sodas, boxes of sugary cereals, white bread, cupcakes, bags of junk snacks, cartons of orange juice. What meat she has is of course factory produced, not grass fed or free range. Bottles of processed vegetable oil and tubs of Crisco. Poison, all of it. It just kills me to see that. I look at the little kids and see their future. Early onset diabetes, chronic inflammatory disorders, depression. But unfortunately that kind of food is the cheapest. I can't judge the woman, don't know her budget or whether she has been deprogrammed from the government's disastrous high carb low fat food pyramid paradigm.

We can support the explosive population growth on this planet with these foods. Can we feed the planet if every person eliminated processed carbs and bad oils and factory produced beef, chicken and pork? Can the planet support everyone eating wild or pastured meat and whole organic vegetables? I don't know the answer but I think that's the direction we need to go. Figure out a sustainable way.

Right now the foundation of our food supply (in the Americas) is millions of square miles of wheat and corn which is processed into all the high carb stuff we eat and feeds our factory-meat. There are still primitive tribes who live as our ancestors did. Some of the native Americans in the north are allowed to hunt whale legally for survival (with a limit) while commercial whaling is banned.

In Africa they hunt bushmeat (including great apes). Those who live and eat the traditional way are healthy (diabetes and schizophrenia for two examples are rare or absent in such tribes). But bans on taking such animals due to extinction concerns (valid) drive these people relentlessly to adopt modern mass agriculture. That brings its own problems, like elephants raiding your corn crop.

I'm rambling a bit but the point I'm trying to get at is whether you are vegetarian or meat eater, the healthy thing is that it's in its natural state, not processed and when you get your food from nature you don't tend to overload the sugar and carbs. We need to get back to that but obviously we can't do it the traditional way, we need to mass produce it, and economically. I think it's one of the biggest challenges of this century.

 

[steingar]

My mother used to make pickles. Unfortunately I didn't learn that particular thing from her. She'd can all sorts of other stuff from her garden too and would always kick us all out of the kitchen when she was doing it.

There're two types, and both are fairly simple. Vinegar pickles are the most common, you pour a hot vinegar brine over what's being pickled. Fermented pickles do take just a smidge of know how, and lots of time. You put the vegetables (or whatever you're pickling) in a slightly acidic brine and what for fermentation. You have to spumerbe everything (I use a rock) and monitor the pickles, make certain they don't develop mold or other unpleasantness. Full sour cucumber pickles take about a month in the catacombs of the Steinholme, sauerkraut and kimchi take about 6 weeks. Lots of wisdom on the web, and some of it is even true.

 

[Rushie]

My only issue these days is it seems we get to pick the style of news we want to see and I've seen too many that won't listen to the other side (think Fox, MSNBC, Huffington Post, Breightbart, etc.). Instead they listen to the filtered explanation of what the other side is saying through their selected news outlet.

This!!!! Drives me nuts from either side. How can you pretend to be informed or have clue about reality if you don't listen to the opposition's point of view?

As much as I hate Michael Moore, I have to hold him up as a good example of someone who took pains to listen to and understand the opposition (in this case, why people voted for Trump). I might not approve of what he ended up doing with it, but at least he tried to get inside the heads of others. It's called "empathy" or another term is "theory of mind". When you close the door to looking at it from their perspective, you are ignoring one of the most important tools the human brain has in forming a realistic model of the world. Because that's all any of us is doing. None of us sees "truth"; all of us perceive a version of truth constructed using input from our senses.

Having said that, both sides now have degraded into repetitive drumbeats (hate Trump hate Trump hate Trump liberals are idiots liberals are idiots liberals are idiots) that I've pretty much stopped watching all of it. And I don't call myself a Republican anymore either.

 

[Rushie]

There're two types, and both are fairly simple. Vinegar pickles are the most common, you pour a hot vinegar brine over what's being pickled. Fermented pickles do take just a smidge of know how, and lots of time. You put the vegetables (or whatever you're pickling) in a slightly acidic brine and what for fermentation. You have to spumerbe everything (I use a rock) and monitor the pickles, make certain they don't develop mold or other unpleasantness. Full sour cucumber pickles take about a month in the catacombs of the Steinholme, sauerkraut and kimchi take about 6 weeks. Lots of wisdom on the web, and some of it is even true.

Ah.. yes mom was doing the former kind. Didn't do the latter and presumably that explains why she didn't make her own sauerkraut although she loved it. The only fermentation done in our household so far was wine, and Mr. Rush stopped that when we moved and lost our "catacombs". Apparently they don't do full basements in South Texas and we're not building a climate controlled shed. Unfortunately. His wine ended up the only I'd ever touch. So much better than store bought.

 

[azblackbird]

Started this thread in hopes of giving a few of us some ideas on how to stay in the left seat a little longer.

Over the past 6 years when my wife was sick with cancer. My goal was to keep as much food in her belly and as much weight on her as possible. Naturally keeping her fattened up, also kept me fattened up. I gained an extra 30 lbs. and 2 pant sizes during that time period. I was never obese or anything, but I could definitely tell that I was getting more sluggish, especially when out riding dirt bikes, hiking/prospecting for gold, or out on the golf course.

Since the passing of my wife this last June, I've lost those 30 lbs. I previously gained, and am finally starting to get my old 6-pack back. I went from a size 38 pant down to a size 34. Yeah, I lost a couple more pant sizes than I was at before. Can you believe that! I attribute it to good exercise (weights and HIIT cardio training) and eating way more healthier than I have in the past. I am constantly eating small servings of fruits, nuts, and veggies throughout the day. I eat good portions of lean meat (mostly pork tenderloin, fish, turkey and chicken) at least 3 times per day. I try to get at least 200 grams of protein per day through a combination of whey protein shakes, and my veggie/fruit/meat diet. I drink a 32 oz mug of coffee each morning, and over a gallon of weak (6 bags) of sun tea each day and am always fully hydrated. So far it's all been working out great. I can literally see the pounds melting off and the muscle tissue building up each day I look in the mirror. It's a great feeling!

Here's a few web sites I have bookmarked that are worth taking a look at if you're interested. Most of losing weight and staying healthy (at least for me anyways) is just good 'ole common sense, but it's still good to validate and confirm that what I'm doing is falling in line with what the "pros" recommend.

This site is a good overall read on what foods you should be eating and what foods you shouldn't be eating. Very informative! I've added a few things to my veggie diet (kale, spinach, etc.) that I normally wouldn't eat, but found out it it's not all that bad.

This site is what I did my research on before starting an exercise and weight program. I'm strictly a circuit trainer for now on the Nautilus equipment and adopt those principles. The man who invented the equipment is a fricking genius who has a complete understanding of how our muscular system works. I urge you to read all of his journals and bulletins.

This site is another one I frequent and is geared more towards directors/trainers etc. who train athletes. Tons of useful information on that site!

Good luck and stay healthy...

 

[azblackbird]

I'm rambling a bit but the point I'm trying to get at is whether you are vegetarian or meat eater, the healthy thing is that it's in its natural state, not processed and when you get your food from nature you don't tend to overload the sugar and carbs. We need to get back to that but obviously we can't do it the traditional way, we need to mass produce it, and economically. I think it's one of the biggest challenges of this century.

You nailed it Rushie!

When I was in grade school almost 50 yrs. ago (out of a class of 300 kids), I could count on one hand the number of obese classmates I had. Going by what I've seen lately whenever I pass by a school that's letting out, it seems that ratio is about 50/50 these days. Un-fricking-believable on what has happened to our society!