V-280 Flies

Flymy47 said:
We've talked a lot about this at work, prior to the decision yesterday. I went to a media day a year or two ago that had the Invictus, Defiant, and Valor mockups, and the Raider prototype. We got to walk around them, and climb in the mockups and ask questions. The Valor mockup was placed on a rug that had a full-size Blackhawk outline to prove the size difference which surprisingly, in my opinion was negligible.

I think they made the right choice. They went with the vendor that hit the milestones on time and budget. Also, the Defiant had issues out of the gate. The scalability they had hoped for from the Raider to the Defiant proved to be more difficult than they anticipated.

From my perspective now, that composite prop was/is an accident waiting to happen. It's all good and fine to zip in to the RP at 200+ knots. Then you land and ding that beautiful expensive composite prop on a tree stump or rock because your crew chief didn't see it. Now you are flying back to the house at helicopter speed.

That said, I would keep my eye on the Raider though for FARA. Bell's 360 Invictus is interesting, but far more conventional. Looks like a Cobra crossed with the Comanche. I believe they recently switched back to a tail rotor from a fenestron.

It is my dream to be able to fly from the Midsouth to ABQ and it not take 9 flight hours with a refuel stop. 270 knots would be a game changer!
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Yeah the Defiant just had too many issues from the get go. Valor’s test program was pretty flawless. Way better marketing from Bell as well. All I get on FB have been Valor exceeding timeline / expectations.

But, from a design perspective I agree with this test pilot. A coaxial would be better for the Army’s needs. I just see too many limitations with the tilt rotor especially when it comes to mountain ops and issues with formation landings. I’m sure they’ll make it work but I predict some serious growing pain early on when it enters service.

https://breakingdefense.com/2021/04/fvl-dont-pick-the-tiltrotor-v-22-test-pilot-tells-army/
 
I bet they're going to try and go in fast and dust off, and folks are going to die.
 
steingar said:
I bet they're going to try and go in fast and dust off, and folks are going to die.
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What does "go in fast and dust off" mean? Do you mean brownout, such as being enveloped in a dust cloud immediately before touchdown?
If so, there's technology now to mitigate that, it's incredible. I'd bet it will be included on this aircraft.

One more thing I'd add is I'm pretty sure these aircraft have "envelope protection" built in to the flight control computers. In other words, it won't let you transition the prop/rotors if you are out of the proper regime to transition.
 
Yep I guarantee this will have full self landing capability. Even the Osprey does to some extent. The system doesn’t allow a true air assault type landing but it’ll slowly bring the aircraft down in zero vis.

The days of doing this by hand are quickly disappearing…and that’s a good thing. Side note, this guy flys an Airbus for Spirit now.
 
Bell206 said:
Not to mention its not armed at the current moment just as the V22. At least it has sliding side doors again. Meanwhile back at the ranch, a 60 gets a few more guns...
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...guration-developed-for-hh-60-helicopter-doors
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Wow, that’s some serious fire power if it’s on both sides. Gonna needs more PJs in that case. I can also see, as the article states, those will get in the way during extraction. But, you could always have one that’s guns heavy for overwatch and a slick one for extraction.
 

This is the new (this video is from 2014) hotness. It's pretty amazing. I've seen it pick up a barbed wire fence short final.

@Bell206, I saw that configuration the other day as well. I have to wonder what twin M240's have over miniguns, minus the mini's needing AC or DC power?
 
Flymy47 said:
I have to wonder what twin M240's have over miniguns, minus the mini's needing AC or DC power?
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According to the article it was the power issue to run 2 additional mini-guns. And for twin 50s it was floor loading.
 
Twin 50s would be crazy! We put a 50 in the cabin in Germany. I didn’t get to fly in that config but the guys said it was loud as crap…got in a little hot water with Redstone too. ;)
 
Velocity173 said:
Twin 50s would be crazy! We put a 50 in the cabin in Germany. I didn’t get to fly in that config but the guys said it was loud as crap…got in a little hot water with Redstone too. ;)
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Not a new idea. Same result back then--tore up the floor.

Huey with 50 cal.jpg
 
Piperonca said:
Not a new idea. Same result back then--tore up the floor.

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Awesome! Yeah we didn’t have any approval to mount a 50 to the floor so Redstone thew a fit when they found out what we were doing. I think their concern was cracks to the floor or something. Easier to ask for forgiveness…
 
Velocity173 said:
Awesome! Yeah we didn’t have any approval to mount a 50 to the floor so Redstone thew a fit when they found out what we were doing. I think their concern was cracks to the floor or something. Easier to ask for forgiveness…
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Yeah, it was the honeycomb floor that would start fragmenting. My unit tried it before I got there, and there were others. Too bad, I know 50 cal door guns would indeed be awesome.
 
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Velocity173 said:
The days of doing this by hand are quickly disappearing…and that’s a good thing. Side note, this guy flys an Airbus for Spirit now.
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You must know Al too! If I remember the story right, this was an emergency pickup and I think he even earned a medal or other award for this landing.
 
midwestpa24 said:
You must know Al too! If I remember the story right, this was an emergency pickup and I think he even earned a medal or other award for this landing.
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Al was a student in my UH-60 class when I was an IP. Worked for the same air ambulance company as me as well before he went to the dark side in the regionals.

I don’t know anything about a medal for this landing. While the Apache pilots make this out to be some crazy landing, for the typical Black Hawk guy, it’s just another day at the office…albeit one that leaves your knees shaking. ;)
 
I always found that landing was less treacherous than takeoff. Going in there's usually a hard spot in the swirl under the chin bubble you can focus on. Coming out there's nothing but avoiding big control movements and calling on the spirits of departed ancestors.
 
Velocity173 said:
Al was a student in my UH-60 class when I was an IP. Worked for the same air ambulance company as me as well before he went to the dark side in the regionals.

I don’t know anything about a medal for this landing. While the Apache pilots make this out to be some crazy landing, for the typical Black Hawk guy, it’s just another day at the office…albeit one that leaves your knees shaking. ;)
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Funny how small the aviation world is. Al and his wife used to live in the area when he was flying medical helicopters and moved into the regionals.

I could be completely wrong, but I thought there was a back story to that landing, being under fire, picking up wounded, hero type stuff, etc. Maybe I mis-remember what I was told.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Funny how small the aviation world is. Al and his wife used to live in the area when he was flying medical helicopters and moved into the regionals.

I could be completely wrong, but I thought there was a back story to that landing, being under fire, picking up wounded, hero type stuff, etc. Maybe I mis-remember what I was told.
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It might have been. I never asked him what his mission was that day. Plenty of times in Iraq or Afghanistan you’re landing in the middle of nowhere with just a smoke grenade (day) or chem light (night) marking an LZ. Sucks but you gotta do it. If I did landings like that in my current job, I’d be fired.
 
Piperonca said:
I always found that landing was less treacherous than takeoff. Going in there's usually a hard spot in the swirl under the chin bubble you can focus on. Coming out there's nothing but avoiding big control movements and calling on the spirits of departed ancestors.
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I was the opposite. I sweated the landing because I was afraid of dynamic roll over. I knew once I was safely on deck I had it made because the take off I could just pull the guts out of it and hopefully not drift on the way up.

I landed as chalk 2 once behind an old friend of mine in a crappy Kolot or whatever they called their villages in Astan. Anyway, just like the vid above, complete brownout. I lose sight of lead on landing while I’m still 20 ft up and make a play for the ground with nothing but the chin bubble for reference. Everyone gets out and I tell the pax to watch where they’re going because there’s a helicopter right in front of us that they can walk into. Before we depart and I tell lead to let me know when he’s clear because I can’t even see him 50 ft in front of me. He calls clear, I depart using nothing but my instruments until I’m about 200 ft up and clear the dust. Look out and “oh, there’s lead in front of me.” Fun times. :D
 
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Sundancer said:
The new CH53 Kilo is a beast . . lifts a load, even high and hot, is fast, long range, and the pilots are impressed with the systems.
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You can hear that thing coming two zip codes away, but it is pretty cool.
 
What’s really strange is to hear a V-22 flying over. Gotta be the weirdest flapping/thumping sound ever. It just doesn’t sound natural. Valor will be like that I would imagine.
 
Piperonca said:
What’s really strange is to hear a V-22 flying over. Gotta be the weirdest flapping/thumping sound ever. It just doesn’t sound natural. Valor will be like that I would imagine.
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Speaking of two zip codes away. I can always tell when an Osprey is coming from a long distance out. Very distinct. Had one fly over the house at night years ago maybe 300 ft up. Just two green disks is all I saw.
 
Piperonca said:
What’s really strange is to hear a V-22 flying over. Gotta be the weirdest flapping/thumping sound ever. It just doesn’t sound natural. Valor will be like that I would imagine.
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It’s different for sure. I had one fly over me in Grand Prairie a few years back.
 
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